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Jony Ive and Marc Newson Discuss Design, Obsession With Perfection in New Interview

pickaxe said:
The person who delegated the iOS 7 icons to the print and web design department talks about perfectionism :rolleyes:
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I like iOS 7 icons A LOT, aside from one or two. Get over it. Even with a perfectionist you're never guaranteed perfection. Steve Jobs was far from perfect, neither is Jony Ive.

Perfectionist does not imply "free from imperfection." It implies somebody caring way beyond the norm, making decisions that THEY feel are right. You may not like those decisions. Bold design tends to be polarizing. Seems people never learn from history. But don't think for one second that the iPhone, and the old UI style in iOS 6 (Aqua) weren't equally as polarizing when they first debuted. When Aqua debuted in 2001, the response was identical to iOS 7 from the closed-minded people.
 
Yes. With your attention to detail and perfectionism, can you please fix ios 7 and the 5s sensors please?
 
macUser2007 said:
Wow!

Methinks that Ive is starting to believe the legend of Ive, which is never a good thing.

He is obviously a good designer, but really...?
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Ive is obviously fantastically qualified, but (IME!) arrogance seem to be a trademark of lots of designers, including those I've worked with. New/fresh/exciting trumps functional/practical/reliable, sadly.

I'd rather he focused on the job rather than telling the world how good he is; and let us figure it out for ourselves. Meanwhile I'll just giggle at the number of people who've had to have their (glass) iPhone repaired, or the mute rocker fall out, or the Home button sticking.
 
The Barron said:
What does Apple get out of all this time & energy from their employees?

Am I missing something here other than Bono's charity gets a huge funding boost?

Yes, this is great that we Apple products' lovers have such a dedicated twosome working to create awesome products & hopefully raise the share price back to awesome levels, but....
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A feeling of pride and doing something that will benefit others.

Sorta like their work they do already.

You really don't understand why Apple is so awesome and why everyone wants their products do you...it's because if they show this much love and energy and effort on this, then what do you think they'll do for their own products?
 
iOS 7

I lost a lot of respect for Jony after he took over and released iOS7. There are lots of types of designers and users, and iOS7 was designed for and by visual designers infatuated with the latest design fad. As an interaction designer, I find it much less usable (new features aside) than what it replaced. As a user, I simply hate the look.

I know people will get sick of hearing this, but the more I use iOS7, the more convinced I am of its truth: this would have never gotten past Steve Jobs. He had taste.

Go back to designing cases and boxes, Jony--that's something you are really good at.
 
whooleytoo said:
Ive is obviously fantastically qualified, but (IME!) arrogance seem to be a trademark of lots of designers, including those I've worked with. New/fresh/exciting trumps functional/practical/reliable, sadly.

I'd rather he focused on the job rather than telling the world how good he is; and let us figure it out for ourselves. Meanwhile I'll just giggle at the number of people who've had to have their (glass) iPhone repaired, or the mute rocker fall out, or the Home button sticking.
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I'd agree with you if it wasn't for charity. Throwing him to the media for a couple interviews to make people aware of the auction is not a big deal IMO. They have a chance to raise millions for charity which is all that matters at the end of the day.
 
Thank you for that. This case makes it obvious that he's prefering form over function.

Ive's M9 has removed the unique and tangible camera controls from the camara's top that are important for the photographer and replaced them with uniform buttons (all images (c) by Leica):
img19711.jpg

130613RD_Leica_136%2528key%2529%255B1%255D.jpg


While you could easily find and control the original M9's shutter speed without looking at the camera Ive's improvement removed the haptic feedback with flat wheels.

Then he removed the flash hotshoe, presumably because it destroyed the slick looks. And heck, who needs an external flash when taking pictures (remember the DVD drive in the iMac) ?

The situation on the back is similiar:
img19705.jpg

leica7.jpg


Leica's design has a four-wheel control with elevated buttons that provide haptic feedback, while Ive's version has a less-usable flat wheel. Furthermore the more important menu button is well-placed on the top-right corner of the display. Ive hides this button somewhere within 5 other buttons (again, they're flat). So in order to open the menu you will have to look at the camera's back.
Furthermore he removed the ocular's hood that reduces sun reflexions. But ok, it's more flat now.

Then he removed the zoom wheel from the bottom right place (where you usually have your thumb when taking a picture because the trigger finger is - well at the trigger) and replaced them with two flat buttons (again, no haptic feedback). It's clear that controlling the zoom with a wheel is much better than by pressing two buttons (faster, more precise, easier to find, more convenient).

So what we have here is the iMac of photography. It's less usable but slick.
(I'd like to see if he changed the menus and the other UI components to plain text as well ;-))
 
nwcs said:
In general they are right, and I definitely respect the difficult job designers face. The problem is that they sometimes work in a vacuum. The Leica camera is pretty but it is terrible from a photographer's point of view. I would love to see them, for example, really learn what good photography is all about and come up with a truly inspired design, especially one with great ergonomics.

Phones, though, are ubiquitous and it doesn't take much to understand their function.
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I agree so much with this, this idea that they are just SO SO good at design that they built a camera that is full of holes...and for other reasons is probably completely useless as an, I don't know, actual camera.

This relates to the new iMac, as a long time purchaser of iMac I got the Mac Mini instead while I wait for mac pro/evaluate my options. How can we tell Ive that we don't care about their welding process, now I have a DVD/CD drive at my feet, how well designed is that? I feel like the value add for mac is going away, I have to work so hard to make it work for me...and pay more for less, just so I can have a 5mm edge. So basically they are just SOOOO So SOOOO good at design my desk is cluttered, my computer is way more expensive compared to a PC than ever (I always check the gap) and I have a lot less utility...wow, great design, you get an award from another designer or design organization. snarf.
 
Rewriting history

Millah said:
I like iOS 7 icons A LOT, aside from one or two. Get over it. Even with a perfectionist you're never guaranteed perfection. Steve Jobs was far from perfect, neither is Jony Ive.
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Some younger people -- mostly Android users -- like iOS7 a lot. I am neither and think it is flat out awful. I have never felt that way about Apple design.

Millah said:
Bold design tends to be polarizing. Seems people never learn from history. But don't think for one second that the iPhone, and the old UI style in iOS 6 (Aqua) weren't equally as polarizing when they first debuted. When Aqua debuted in 2001, the response was identical to iOS 7 from the closed-minded people.
Click to expand...

Bold design should be uniquely appealing. You shouldn't be hearing "what the hell is this cartoony crap?" if you listened to end users. This wasn't user tested. This is definitely not 'Bold': It's a me-too interpretation of this 'Modern' visual design fad that Windows 8 and Android adopted previously.

As to Aqua, that sounds revisionist to me. Most of us loved the UI look. We hated that OS X wouldn't run on the very boxes Apple designed it on (have to buy new macs!) and weren't in love with how it worked with Classic and the lack of a truly spatial finder (still a weak design in OS X), but the look of the icons and Aqua in general? Loved that part.
 
I'm glad to see Jony is so obsessed with perfection. Now that Steve is gone, Apple needs somebody to have that same eye for detail and precision that Steve had. Jony is obviously the guy.
 
macUser2007 said:
Wow!

Methinks that Ive is starting to believe the legend of Ive, which is never a good thing.

He is obviously a good designer, but really...?
Click to expand...

Wow indeed. I am still a fan of his work, but I used to be a bigger fan of Ive. Lately, since he's taken a more visible profile it almost feels like he's becoming more of a caricature of Ive than actually being Jony Ive. Over exposure? Self adulating tone? Oft repeated statements bordering on catch phrases? I can't put my finger on it but he was much more palatable when he seemed more like his designs: understated and classic.

Full disclosure: The statement above is opinion and should not be taken as a declaration of fact. No research was involved in forming this opinion.
 
slick with terrible usability

The low contrast, bright white clock background might be slick and finished but its usability in the dark, esp. in the middle of the night, is terrible.

It's like shining a flashlight in your eyes, even with screen brightness down.

"Apple knows best" but I'd like an option to set the default background from 'flashlight white' to 'lock screen grey' in the control center.

There are many other things I could point out in the music player, etc, but this one is the most painful slick vs usability tradeoff. And yes, I have 'bold fonts' and 'increase contrast' on. Pure 'ivory tower' stuff. Apple haters would use the word arrogance.
 
If youre so obsessed with perfection, how about designing an iphone that doesnt get scuffed just by looking at it.
 
Woyzeck said:
Thank you for that. This case makes it obvious that he's prefering form over function.

Ive's M9 has removed the unique and tangible camera controls from the camara's top that are important for the photographer and replaced them with uniform buttons (all images (c) by Leica):
Image
Image

While you could easily find and control the original M9's shutter speed without looking at the camera Ive's improvement removed the haptic feedback with flat wheels.

Then he removed the flash hotshoe, presumably because it destroyed the slick looks. And heck, who needs an external flash when taking pictures (remember the DVD drive in the iMac) ?

The situation on the back is similiar:
Image
Image

Leica's design has a four-wheel control with elevated buttons that provide haptic feedback, while Ive's version has a less-usable flat wheel. Furthermore the more important menu button is well-placed on the top-right corner of the display. Ive hides this button somewhere within 5 other buttons (again, they're flat). So in order to open the menu you will have to look at the camera's back.
Furthermore he removed the ocular's hood that reduces sun reflexions. But ok, it's more flat now.

Then he removed the zoom wheel from the bottom right place (where you usually have your thumb when taking a picture because the trigger finger is - well at the trigger) and replaced them with two flat buttons (again, no haptic feedback). It's clear that controlling the zoom with a wheel is much better than by pressing two buttons (faster, more precise, easier to find, more convenient).

So what we have here is the iMac of photography. It's less usable but slick.
(I'd like to see if he changed the menus and the other UI components to plain text as well ;-))
Click to expand...

THIS! Times a Million. The perfect summation of "beautiful" design that is just plain ugly to use.
 
lamerica80 said:
If youre so obsessed with perfection, how about designing an iphone that doesnt get scuffed just by looking at it.
Click to expand...

My silver iPhone 5 has not a scuff or scratch. I have a 4th gen iPod touch that is full of scuffs though. My guess is the 5C won't have scuffing issues but people here call that cheap plastic so...
 
Rogifan said:
My silver iPhone 5 has not a scuff or scratch. I have a 4th gen iPod touch that is full of scuffs though...
Click to expand...

Thats because scuffs on raw aluminium doesnt show as much. Have a look at a black iphone5 thats been used naked for a couple of months. Its not a pretty sight.
 
I wouldn't call it an obsession with design, only an obsession with making things as thin as possible. If customer's lose the ability to upgrade their systems along the way, screw 'em.
 
This is the ugliest camera I've ever seen since the digital age. Ive really needs to go. It's 100% his fault that Apple kicked out Forstall and Ive's pathetic attempt at a new OS design was an unmitigated disaster. He couldn't be more wrong about skeuomorphism if he tried. Apple really needs to bring back Forstall to clean up Ive's mess or good.
 
Does absolutely nothing for me. The original Leica's were already perfection.
 
Now I know why iOS 7 is so unpolished. Jony spent too much time on this camera instead of his day job...
 
Wow.

561 models over 85 days. That's over six models a day for three months.

He sounds like someone who likes to experiment, instead of sitting down and designing everything out first.

Man, it sure is a good thing that he works for a company which doesn't need new designs very often!
 
lamerica80 said:
Thats because scuffs on raw aluminium doesnt show as much. Have a look at a black iphone5 thats been used naked for a couple of months. Its not a pretty sight.
Click to expand...

Hence why Apple is no longer making slate iPhones. The 4/4S is a beautiful device but I know plenty of people who dropped it and shattered the glass.
 
Leica M9 cameras are works of art.

All I see here is Jonny spouting his usual self-aggrandising *****.

His hardware designs to date have been great, but this camera looks bloody awful. Beauty in eye of the beholder and all that, you're each welcome to your own tastes... I stopped playing with Fisher Price toys when I was a toddler.

It's for charity though, so I hope they get good bids.

Now, about those icons jon...
 
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