Sales Gap Between iPhone 5s and 5c Narrowing Over Time

stevensocal said:

I love apple , so this isn't a hater saying this , but they missed the boat this year. First of all I am an at&t RSC..So I know what the pubic wants. They didn't want 5 colors of plastic lower model, than the 5s..
What I think apple should of done , usually they would of done this if they had smart marketing people and kept a close on on what the market was doing , this would of been a success.
They should of a made a 5s and a 5L ... Yes L stands for Larger screen.. Never made the 5c , since there's been very low demand for the 5C. 5L would of had a 5 inch screen and apple could of charged 50-100 more than 5s and made what most customers that need bigger screens very happy.. making a lower model in plastic wasn't smart. It cheapen's there product and apple brand. They should of kept as they did 4S for the lower income customers to buy at 99cents... HTC, Samsung and LG are all doing larger screens and customers are moving away from the iphone due to demand of larger screens and apple isn't seeing that, perhaps next year ...The reduction of production at 35% of 5c proves that apple made a mistake. They should again , listen to demands of the customers and I as a Retail Sales Consutant for at&a hear it everyday. I want to have a bigger screen, I want the NOTE, HTC ONE, MEGA etc. Step up to the Plate apple , you will loose market to other companies that want the bigger screens.

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Could have, would have, should have.

The Margin has narrowed because the 5s has ran out of stock in many places so instead of waiting many are taking a 5c

Battlefield 2 said:

5C is not the success people claim it will be...

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Why not?

I think the issue people have with the 5c is instead of getting the actual iphone 5 for 99/549 they got a cheapened version of it for no discount. People feel like they got jipped. It should have been the same price as the 5 normally would have gone to if they hadn't released the 5c.


To make matters even worse, the nexus 5 is about to be released with better materials (soft touch plastic vs glossy hard plastic), a much better cpu, and a bigger better screen for less money. With arguably the best software support in the industry. Nexus phones not only get all the updates but unlike apple where some features may be reserved for the device the ios version launched with, nexus devices get every feature in the new operating system. Nexus phones also come with a fully unlockable bootloader (without the need to register the phone like some manufacturers). Not only that but they come with the full source code to the OS, etc. The software possibilities for them are pretty much endless. And if you just want root and don't care about custom roms, the unlocked bootloader also means you don't have to wait for an exploit to gain root. You just flash the superuser binaries. There are plenty of one click tools that will do this for you.

Overall, the nexus phones fit both people who love to tinker and change everything, but also people who want something that just works as well. That is a very difficult combo to attain. Now if google could just get the carriers interested enough to sell them directly without molesting them. Atleast my Verizon Galaxy Nexus is officially in AOSP. I have a fully functional and stable 4.3 build on it. The sprint variant isn't in official AOSP and they have yet to get 4g data working on 4.3. The Verizon model was good to go on day 1 of the 4.3 release. Ideally, google would sell one variant and the updates would be handled through them. Carriers would be free to subsidize them, but the software build does not get touched. Everyone has the same software.

Battlefield 2 said:

5C is not the success people claim it will be...

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Huh? It's already a success. No one has to claim anything. Already happened.

Past that, my green 5C is the first cellular device that actually catches a signal from upstairs in my house. Two or three bars. Plenty good enough to check weather, news, get my mail and refresh data in favored apps. I'm not likely to be browsing much in cell mode since I have to hold the thing up to a window, but I'm THRILLED that I can actually use it on other than my WiFi in this dead zone.

OK so maybe the 5S could catch a cell tower too, who knows. But for me, the 5C is a grand slam home run. A runaway success.

Jacquesass said:

I still find it odd that the 5c isn't offered in a grey or black color. Like the rest of you guys, I understand the math on how little the true upgrade cost really is from 5c to 5s (when averaged out over a two year contract) - but if I was in the market for a 5c, I would want something a little less ... effeminate.

No offense to the real men who bought a pink one. Just saying.

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It isn't odd... it's pure marketing strategy. There 100% should be a plastic BLACK 5c.

Why there isn't - is because this forces the parent (or aka in this case that you are mentioning, male parent) to purchase the 5s and distinguish itself from the 5c. Basically, the purchasing power is the same, but the purchaser has a less hesitant choice with the same initial purchasing power. The Black 5c would be a legit threat at the initial 'C' launch... it will be here in a year or 2 though I bet.

Is there such a thing as marketing sexism???? Hahahah, No... this just creates more product value to the 5s and creates target audiences within the product lineup. The 5c is 100% targeted for the teens coming off the iPod Touch generation in general, so getting a family full of iPhones has just been made more prevalent. Parents get the 5s... kids get the 5c. The opportunity is there, and the choice for both/all audiences is even easier.

But, one day, within the next update or 2 to the 'C'... the C will most likely add more colors like black, and the marketing strategy of colors will go bye byes and the features/functions will differentiate the iPhone product like it should nonetheless.

Right now, Apple is just playing the marketing... and playing it well, especially for the mid to long-term for both the iPhone 'S & C' options.

Product Differentation is what will help both the 5c & 5s quarter to quarter, and one day, I do believe there will be a legit targeted fan base for the C over the S.

Apple will win big in the long run with this... give it 18months.

mw360 said:

Could have, would have, should have.

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Thank god, I am not the only one... his post really freaked me out.

I'm just wondering where all the "how horrible a gold phone would be" fashion experts are gone, now that it turns out that is the most wanted color out there

blackhand1001 said:

I think the issue people have with the 5c is instead of getting the actual iphone 5 for 99/549 they got a cheapened version of it for no discount. People feel like they got jipped. It should have been the same price as the 5 normally would have gone to if they hadn't released the 5c.

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I'm curious to know who exactly was jipped as Apple never promised the 5 at $99. Just because they did it with the 4 and 4S doesn't mean they're required to keep doing that forever. Should 3rd gen iPad owners feel jipped because the 4th gen with the improved A6X came out 7 months later?

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VanillaCracker said:

Why not?

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It's not a success for people who expected something Apple never promised (e.g. a cheap phone or the iPhone 5 for $100 cheaper).

Jacquesass said:

No, Ignatius, not at all.

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Except that you did. Your words, not mine.

"Just saying."

blackhand1001 said:

To make matters even worse, the nexus 5 is about to be released with better materials (soft touch plastic vs glossy hard plastic), a much better cpu, and a bigger better screen for less money. With arguably the best software support in the industry. Nexus phones not only get all the updates but unlike apple where some features may be reserved for the device the ios version launched with, nexus devices get every feature in the new operating system. Nexus phones also come with a fully unlockable bootloader (without the need to register the phone like some manufacturers). Not only that but they come with the full source code to the OS, etc. The software possibilities for them are pretty much endless. And if you just want root and don't care about custom roms, the unlocked bootloader also means you don't have to wait for an exploit to gain root. You just flash the superuser binaries. There are plenty of one click tools that will do this for you.

Click to expand...

The Nexus devices, at least to date, haven't been about creating a product for mass sales. Google has Motorola for that. They sell close to cost because Google buys them from the manufacturer and then sells them at below-market prices. They make up the difference in ad revenue (similar to how Amazon sells the Kindle Fire line at cost and then attempts to make up the difference in content sales). I don't think Google needs or wants to sell 30 million Nexus 5s a quarter.

blackhand1001 said:

I think the issue people have with the 5c is instead of getting the actual iphone 5 for 99/549 they got a cheapened version of it for no discount. People feel like they got jipped. It should have been the same price as the 5 normally would have gone to if they hadn't released the 5c.

To make matters even worse, the nexus 5 is about to be released with better materials (soft touch plastic vs glossy hard plastic), a much better cpu, and a bigger better screen for less money.

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The release of the nexus 5 won't have any bearing on the perception of the 5c. Far too many people don't even know what a nexus device is.

KPOM said:

The Nexus devices, at least to date, haven't been about creating a product for mass sales. Google has Motorola for that. They sell close to cost because Google buys them from the manufacturer and then sells them at below-market prices. They make up the difference in ad revenue (similar to how Amazon sells the Kindle Fire line at cost and then attempts to make up the difference in content sales). I don't think Google needs or wants to sell 30 million Nexus 5s a quarter.

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Its pretty clear with the Nexus 7 that googles intention is no longer to appeal just to enthusiasts with the Nexus series. I see ads on TV and the web all the time for the nexus 7. Also contrary to popular belief the total cost of manufacturering and transporting etc. is still quite a bit less than the $349 the nexus 5 will sell for. There is easily a $75-100 margin there if not more.

I've always wanted a 5c 32gb...in green

blackhand1001 said:

Its pretty clear with the Nexus 7 that googles intention is no longer to appeal just to enthusiasts with the Nexus series. I see ads on TV and the web all the time for the nexus 7. Also contrary to popular belief the total cost of manufacturering and transporting etc. is still quite a bit less than the $349 the nexus 5 will sell for. There is easily a $75-100 margin there if not more.

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Probably not as much as LG would like. $75-$100 margin, less $15 to Microsoft for licensing fees, less R&D and SG&A (recognized outside of margin) probably doesn't leave them much. It's possible Google is subsidizing LG to some extent by buying the phone close to the MSRP.

If Google's intent is to drive the premium smartphone price down to $349, we'll also see them do that with upcoming Motorola products (so far they did not do that with the Moto X). That probably wouldn't sit well with Samsung, HTC, or other Android OEMs.

The situation with the Nexus 7 was a bit different in that at the time it was initially released, no Android OEM, not even Samsung, had gotten much traction after more than 2 years and so Google decided to take matters into its own hands.

KPOM said:

Probably not as much as LG would like. $75-$100 margin, less $15 to Microsoft for licensing fees, less R&D and SG&A (recognized outside of margin) probably doesn't leave them much. It's possible Google is subsidizing LG to some extent by buying the phone close to the MSRP.

If Google's intent is to drive the premium smartphone price down to $349, we'll also see them do that with upcoming Motorola products (so far they did not do that with the Moto X). That probably wouldn't sit well with Samsung, HTC, or other Android OEMs.

The situation with the Nexus 7 was a bit different in that at the time it was initially released, no Android OEM, not even Samsung, had gotten much traction after more than 2 years and so Google decided to take matters into its own hands.

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Those costs per unit essentially includes the research fees and licensing fees. Most of the research itself was performed by qualcomm, the radio manufacturers, etc. and is in fact included in bill of parts. The software was done by google and the effort put forth there doesn't only apply to the nexus phones. The display research was already performed years ago and LG display is a seperate entity from the mobile division anyway. This actually is an advantage to have in house since this allows them to get cheaper rates and the research is paid for by the hundreds of other clients that purchase their displays. If LG wanted to make more on each unit, they wouldn't have gone for round 2 of the nexus phone. They clearly see it as a worthy investment.

blackhand1001 said:

This actually is an advantage to have in house since this allows them to get cheaper rates and the research is paid for by the hundreds of other clients that purchase their displays. If LG wanted to make more on each unit, they wouldn't have gone for round 2 of the nexus phone. They clearly see it as a worthy investment.

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It may be their only option, since the only ones making any money from Android right now are Samsung, Microsoft (through royalties on their IP), and Google. Most of Samsung's mobile profits are from the Galaxy line, which sells at prices broadly similar to the iPhone.

If LG could get $649 for a phone like the Nexus 5 (such as the LG G2), they likely would rather do so. But so far only Apple and Samsung seem to be able to consistently sell phones at that price range in significant volumes.

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blackhand1001 said:

I think the issue people have with the 5c is instead of getting the actual iphone 5 for 99/549 they got a cheapened version of it for no discount. People feel like they got jipped. It should have been the same price as the 5 normally would have gone to if they hadn't released the 5c.

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If history is any guide, had Apple not released the 5c, they'd have sold the 5 for $99/$549. Granted, it would have had a shiny aluminum case, but it would also have lacked the improved LTE bands and Facetime camera, as well as bigger battery.

Jacquesass said:

I still find it odd that the 5c isn't offered in a grey or black color. Like the rest of you guys, I understand the math on how little the true upgrade cost really is from 5c to 5s (when averaged out over a two year contract) - but if I was in the market for a 5c, I would want something a little less ... effeminate.

No offense to the real men who bought a pink one. Just saying.

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I would have bought a pink one if it was an attractive shade of pink.

I probably would have bought it anyways if I was actually due for an upgrade.

Battlefield 2 said:

5C is not the success people claim it will be...

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Maybe Apple will design it better next time. (Match the front panel to the back color)

Not that I would buy one yet if I wanted to it would need to be black or at least be completely one color and not half baked.

LizKat said:

Huh? It's already a success. No one has to claim anything. Already happened.

Past that, my green 5C is the first cellular device that actually catches a signal from upstairs in my house. Two or three bars. Plenty good enough to check weather, news, get my mail and refresh data in favored apps. I'm not likely to be browsing much in cell mode since I have to hold the thing up to a window, but I'm THRILLED that I can actually use it on other than my WiFi in this dead zone.

OK so maybe the 5S could catch a cell tower too, who knows. But for me, the 5C is a grand slam home run. A runaway success.

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I'm sorry you fell it love with crap. I'm sorry you fell in love with last years hardware wrapped in plastic.

Go figure, people who are buying basically a year-old phone already aren't in a hurry to get it, so the sales aren't going to be nearly as front-loaded. Still a great phone. Still selling very well.

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Battlefield 2 said:

I'm sorry you fell it love with crap. I'm sorry you fell in love with last years hardware wrapped in plastic.

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I'm sorry you're so blinded by your need to be a tool that a great phone that happens to be a year old (internally) is "crap" to you.

God forbid someone just not care to spend as much on a phone. Because it's a phone.

Tthomas612 said:

Once people realize this it'll be good. Bad things is they will now spin it a different way. Why? Because for some reason the Apple. "Fans" don't think a plastic phone can have quality. Well I'm sorry, but the 5c is a quality device. Just as the iPhone 5 is a quality device. I understand that some people prefer aluminum over plastic. So be it... There's just no sense in hating on a product. It's your opinion.

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Things made of Aluminium:

A can of 30c soda,
A $2 can of deodorant,
A 99c roll of kitchen foil,
The iPhone 5s


Things made of Plastic:

The interior trim and dashboard of a $100,000 Mercedes S Class.
The interior of Emirates First Class A380 Suites.
Everything made with a 3D printer.
the iPhone 5C.

I agree with you. People are stupid. Aluminium adds no more value or functionality than plastic. It's the application and design that add value.

Functionally, the 5C does exactly everything the 5 does.

wikiverse said:

Things made of Aluminium:

A can of 30c soda,
A $2 can of deodorant,
A 99c roll of kitchen foil,
The iPhone 5s


Things made of Plastic:

The interior trim and dashboard of a $100,000 Mercedes S Class.
The interior of Emirates First Class A380 Suites.
Everything made with a 3D printer.
the iPhone 5C.

I agree with you. People are stupid. Aluminium adds no more value or functionality than plastic. It's the application and design that add value.

Functionally, the 5C does exactly everything the 5 does.

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I'm absolutely glad someone understands.

Aluminum isn't this "fine" metal. Hell it's used for some of the cheapest crap. Whereas plastic is used for some expensive stuff.

The iPhone 5 is a great phone and the iPhone 5 c performs just as well. It even has a few minor upgrades with it.

People wanna act that because a phone has aluminum on it that it makes the build quality so much better... They don't stop to think about how cheap it really is.

If you take and look at this article and thread. It's about how the 5c is gaining on the 5s. Now if it was about the 5s outselling it by even more it would be full of comments. It probably be over 200 by now. Most of them would say it's the "build quality"

wikiverse said:

Things made of Aluminium:

A can of 30c soda,
A $2 can of deodorant,
A 99c roll of kitchen foil,
The iPhone 5s


Things made of Plastic:

The interior trim and dashboard of a $100,000 Mercedes S Class.
The interior of Emirates First Class A380 Suites.
Everything made with a 3D printer.
the iPhone 5C.

I agree with you. People are stupid. Aluminium adds no more value or functionality than plastic. It's the application and design that add value.

Functionally, the 5C does exactly everything the 5 does.

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Personally I have no problem with plastic, but I do think its weird that apple went for the hard glossy kind over the soft touch grippy type use in say the nexus 7, nexus 10 and future nexus 5. Thats the kind used in good automobile interiors rather than the hard glossy type.

Ironduke said:

The Margin has narrowed because the 5s has ran out of stock in many places so instead of waiting many are taking a 5c

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This is probably a significant enough factor for sure.