Upgrade Canon EOS Rebel XS / 1000D to ?

grapes911 · Oct 22, 2013

Hey digital friends. I'm looking to upgrade my Canon EOS Rebel XS / 1000D but I'm not sure to what.

Type of pictures I take:
I mostly take pictures of my 4 month old daughter and family. Some are posed pictures but most are quick shots because she's doing something cute. I've attached a few examples. The quick shots are generally indoors and isn't always in the brightest light.

Skill:
My skill is pretty amateurish. I shoot everything in RAW and manual everything except for auto focus. I'm certainly getting better but most of the time I'm more concerned with capturing my daughter than getting the greatest technical shot. My skill has not outgrown my currently camera.

Current Glass:

18-55mm IS f/3.5-5.6
50mm f/1.8
70-200mm f/4

Why I want a new Camera:
Even though my skill has not outgrown the Rebel XS, the ISO maxes out at 1600 and is barely usable. I'd like a camera that will allow me to raise the ISO indoors when needed and not feel like it's grainy as heck.

Requirements for a new Camera:

Higher and better ISO than the XS.
Good auto focus speed as you never know when my daughter will do something cute and you never know how long it will last for.
Canon to be compatible with my glass.
SDHC compatible as I already have a bunch of memory.

Budget:
I have no problem spending $1200 (or more) if it means getting the right camera for me. That being said, I do not want to spend $1200 if a significantly cheaper camera will work just fine considering my skill (or lack-thereof) and requirements.

What I've looked at so far:

T4i / 650D - Seems like a solid camera. The ISO was good but not great. AF seemed similar to what I have. Maybe a bit faster. Nice upgrade overall from what I have. Not sure if I'd outgrow this camera or not.
T5i / 700D - Didn't seem all that different from the T4i.
70D - The AF is awesome. Great ISO. It seems like a perfect camera that I'd have no chance of outgrowing but it is pricey. WiFi and improved video abilities are awesome but not required.

So, the big questions: What other cameras should I look at and what is your recommendation for me?

CmdrLaForge · Oct 22, 2013

Hi there,

I am a big Canon fan myself and I would go with the new 70D. Mainly because it offers a much improved AF in video mode which you will need when chasing kids around

I have a kid myself and videos are really a much better way to remember them younger.

themumu · Oct 22, 2013

I have no comment on the camera choices, but a quick note about the shots you attached. The kid is not looking at the camera in any of them - I hope you are catching her glance in at least some of your photos. Doesn't have to be posed, but just attract her attention so she looks your way - the photos might turn out more engaging that way.

definitive · Oct 22, 2013

Have you looked at the 60D? Not sure how it would compare in quality to the 70D, but Adorama was selling the refurbished body for about $520 yesterday through their EBay store.

grapes911 · Oct 22, 2013

CmdrLaForge said:
...I would go with the new 70D. Mainly because it offers a much improved AF in video mode which you will need when chasing kids around I have a kid myself and videos are really a much better way to remember them younger.

I know but I do want to make sure $1200 is really worth the price before I buy one. $600 seems so much more reasonable if it can do what I need it to do.

themumu said:
The kid is not looking at the camera in any of them

No disagreement here. I certainly haven't master the skill of getting (and keeping) her attention. I take what I can get so a fast AF is pretty important to me.

definitive said:
Have you looked at the 60D?

I've read the reviews but I have yet to see one in person. I'm looking though.

themumu · Oct 22, 2013

I never tried shooting kids, so take it with a grain of salt, but maybe stopping down the lens to increase depth of field will help offset some focussing errors? Of course, a higher usable ISO would be needed to keep shutter speeds up, but it could be something to experiment with

CmdrLaForge · Oct 22, 2013

Of course you could get the 650D and a very nice video camera for the price of the 70D. Then you have to handle two devices.

Designer Dale · Oct 22, 2013

The main thing you seem to want is a higher shutter speed at a greater depth of field, which leads you to look at a high iso capable camera. I have a Canon 7D and even it has some difficulty giving me what I expect at an iso like 1600. I can shoot at 250 and 800 fine, but it still likes the preferred 100 Canon iso, and it's a $1500 body. With that said, how about a real good flash? You can get diffusers that fit over the front of them that take the BANG factor out of the equation for your little girl and will reduce the harsh shadows caused by flash photography. My other hobby is building model cars and I put a flash on my camera for those pics. I have a reflector that lets me point the flash at the ceiling and bounce it to my workbench for good light without sharp shadows.

Dale

grapes911 · Oct 22, 2013

Designer Dale said:
I have a Canon 7D and even it has some difficulty giving me what I expect at an iso like 1600. I can shoot at 250 and 800 fine, but it still likes the preferred 100 Canon iso, and it's a $1500 body.

That's a bit depressing.

With that said, how about a real good flash? You can get diffusers that fit over the front of them that take the BANG factor out of the equation for your little girl and will reduce the harsh shadows caused by flash photography.

I hate the built-in flash but maybe it's time for me to look into a flash and diffuser. I don't have much experience with these but I'll start doing the research. Thanks for the suggestion.

My other hobby is building model cars and I put a flash on my camera for those pics. I have a reflector that lets me point the flash at the ceiling and bounce it to my workbench for good light without sharp shadows.

Many times she is doing something cute and I don't really have time to get a reflector ready. I'm not sure this is an option for me.

Designer Dale · Oct 22, 2013

grapes911 said:
That's a bit depressing.

I hate the built-in flash but maybe it's time for me to look into a flash and diffuser. I don't have much experience with these but I'll start doing the research. Thanks for the suggestion.

Many times she is doing something cute and I don't really have time to get a reflector ready. I'm not sure this is an option for me.

I taught elementary school so I know how fast things can change with children. I have never been a parent, though, and admire your efforts to remember the small things that make a child so amazing.

As for pushing iso to 1600, keep in mind that's 16 times the speed the camera is comfortable with. Kind of like driving a modern family car designed for 60 or 70 mph well beyond the speed of sound. 960 or 1,120 mph, to be precise

Dale

kashura7 · Oct 22, 2013

Have you considered t3i?

grapes911 · Oct 23, 2013

Designer Dale said:
I taught elementary school so I know how fast things can change with children. I have never been a parent, though, and admire your efforts to remember the small things that make a child so amazing.

The funny part is she grows so fast and does so many new things that I forget what she's done. Just looking at the pictures I attached, the one with her on her tummy was the first time she looked into a mirror. She was so mesmerized that I had to take a few shots. Now she looks into the mirror all the time and loves making faces at herself, but I only had one time to capture it the first time.

As for pushing iso to 1600, keep in mind that's 16 times the speed the camera is comfortable with. Kind of like driving a modern family car designed for 60 or 70 mph well beyond the speed of sound. 960 or 1,120 mph, to be precise

Your analogy makes sense. I've already started researching flashes and diffusers and the appropriate way to use them. This might be the better and cheaper path.

Die RoZ said:
Have you considered t3i?

I've read some reviews but I'm not sure it's a big enough upgrade from the XS to justify the price. I guess I need to see one in person and play with it.

tgara · Oct 23, 2013

Of the choices you mentioned, I would definitely get the 70D as a first choice, then the T5i as a second choice. All the other choices, including the 7D, are old technology and you likely will not see a big improvement from what you have now, IMHO.

The 70D has the most up-to-date technology from Canon, and will vastly outperform your XS in nearly every parameter that is important (e.g., focus speed, low light performance, improved MP, touchscreen interface, built-in wifi, etc.). For your needs, the 70D is a camera that will be good for you for many years. You may also like the improved ergonomics... keep in mind, your XS is a smaller body than the 70D, so the 70D may fit better in your hands. I know I noticed this improvement when I upgraded from a Rebel XT to a 40D years ago.

I would also invest in a good flash, something like a Canon 430EXII, especially if you are shooting a lot of indoor shots.

Canon is running special rebates on all this gear right now, btw. Good time to buy....

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer?pageKeyCode=53

ChrisA · Oct 23, 2013

It is a mistake EVERY beginner makes. They think If ONLY have b=had a better camera then I'd have better images. You don't need a better camera ISO 1600 is way-fast. I have tones of good images all on 160 ISO film.

You have done the right thing by getting a f/1.8 lens, the 50mm size is about right for suck a small subject. What shutter speed and ISO are you using with the 50mm lies when you open it up to f/1.8 or f/2

Part of your lack of low light ability comes from the slow lenses. You did not say but I assume to DO know the relationship between ISO and f-stops: Opening the lens one f-stop is the same as DOUBLING the ISO. So moving from an f/5.6 lens to an f/2 lens is that same as going from iso 1,600 to 12,800 Are you REALLY having trouble at in low light with your 50mm lens? That lens can nearly shoot in the dark

The other thing to invest in before a new SLR body is lighting. If you are at all serious about photography then it is all about light.

Do you own a Canon speed light? Don't even THINK about a new camera body until you get a light that can bounce off the wall and ceiling. Then get one you can use as a slave and aim at a back wall.

For these kind of shots you posted look at getting VIDEO. No NOT with an SLR. that is fort people who have loads of time to set up lighting focus the shots and **** not. But a Canon HF R400. If has optical image stabilization and a jack for an external mic. Those are the only two features you need. The little R400 has better video features then SLRs for this kind of work.

Then you can use your SLR for real-phots and not snap shots

But video is hard to shoot. You have to resists the temptation to zoom and pan and you need to understand some rues of editing(continuity of motion, establishing shots,...) but

For snapshots cell phone camera have taken over

grapes911 · Oct 23, 2013

ChrisA said:
You have done the right thing by getting a f/1.8 lens, the 50mm size is about right for suck a small subject. What shutter speed and ISO are you using with the 50mm lies when you open it up to f/1.8 or f/2

Part of your lack of low light ability comes from the slow lenses. You did not say but I assume to DO know the relationship between ISO and f-stops: Opening the lens one f-stop is the same as DOUBLING the ISO. So moving from an f/5.6 lens to an f/2 lens is that same as going from iso 1,600 to 12,800 Are you REALLY having trouble at in low light with your 50mm lens? That lens can nearly shoot in the dark

I understand the basics of ISO, aperture, and shutter speed. The light in my family room isn't great and I sometimes using ISO 800 and f/2, I need to lower the shutter speeds to 1/20 just to get the shot. I was hoping a camera that could actually do 1600 ISO would help me out a bit but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.

The other thing to invest in before a new SLR body is lighting. If you are at all serious about photography then it is all about light.

Do you own a Canon speed light? Don't even THINK about a new camera body until you get a light that can bounce off the wall and ceiling. Then get one you can use as a slave and aim at a back wall.

I do not own a flash but based on Designer Dale's recommendation, it's something I'm looking into. I do not want something that takes a ton of setup though because at certain times I like to take quick pictures.

For these kind of shots you posted look at getting VIDEO. No NOT with an SLR. that is fort people who have loads of time to set up lighting focus the shots and **** not. But a Canon HF R400. If has optical image stabilization and a jack for an external mic. Those are the only two features you need. The little R400 has better video features then SLRs for this kind of work.

Then you can use your SLR for real-phots and not snap shots

But video is hard to shoot. You have to resists the temptation to zoom and pan and you need to understand some rues of editing(continuity of motion, establishing shots,...) but

I'm not interested in video. I already have a nice camcorder for that.

For snapshots cell phone camera have taken over

That is not the direction I want to go. My cell phone is vastly inferior to my XS.

paolo- · Oct 23, 2013

I doubt you'll get much better low light performance from newer Canon cameras. Maybe just one stop better. I think you need to think of your light more. For your posed shots, try to take them by a window on a cloudy day, you'll get beautiful soft light and plenty of it. For candid shots getting a simple flash and pointing it at the celling should get the job done. By bouncing it off the celling you get a softer light so you don't get that deer in head light kind of look you get with the on board flash.

Designer Dale · Oct 23, 2013

grapes: Here's a sample of stuff you can stick on a pop-up flash:

Gary Fong Pop-Up Puffer

Lumiquest SoftScreen

This is the diffuser I use on my hot shoe flash. It velcro's to the flash.
Lumiquest Pocket Bouncer

A bunch of stuff related at B&H Photo:

On Flash Light Controls

Dale

grapes911 · Oct 24, 2013

I'm pretty convinced that I'm purchasing a Speedlite flash and a diffuser. I don't need any fancy features so they all seem to do what I need. I'm looking for the cheapest one that has the power I desire. I'm reading all about Guide Numbers.

Thanks for all the help.

grapes911 · Oct 26, 2013

I purchased a Speedlite 430EX II and a Sto-fen Omni-Bounce. I have a lot to learn but I'm already seeing an improvement. I can take decent pictures at low light without the glow the built-in flash creates.

Again, thanks all.

mtbdudex · Oct 26, 2013

grapes911 said:
I purchased a Speedlite 430EX II and a Sto-fen Omni-Bounce. I have a lot to learn but I'm already seeing an improvement. I can take decent pictures at low light without the glow the built-in flash creates.

Again, thanks all.

Good for you, using your equipment and then extending its "life" for a few more years by getting into balanced exposure via flash + natural lighting.

With respect to the many people who posted here, a very wide aperture also give a very narrow DOF, so if you are slightly off focus the shot will look soft.

If you are on facebook, then join https://www.facebook.com/groups/4996673110/ and "like" the Strobist group, your news feed will get what others are shooting with, their techniques, and such a great way to learn.

Strobist info:
Images posted to the pool must include the following lighting details, in the caption of the photo (or in the first comment): the number of flashes used, where the flashes are placed in relation to the subject or camera, how the flashes were modified (umbrella, soft box, beauty dish, snoot, etc.) and how they were triggered. If you do not want to have the lighting info in your caption, please place it in the first comment. We want to make it easy for people to find.
If your photo does not include ALL of this info, it can be deleted at any time, without warning.
The purpose of this info is to explain how your shot was lit. This is the whole purpose of this group.

Else you can go to their website and surf it, http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/

btw, I've got a 2009 T1i that still "works" for me, though I've toyed with going FF at times, or waiting for the 7D mk II to finally come out.....the longer I wait, the better the tech will be in my next camera body.
My body also has 55k shutter clicks on it, so getting close to the 100k shutter click rated max.

There ARE times when having just 1 or 2 stop more would have allowed a "money" shot, like cloudy soccer games catching the action with my 70-200 L & TC @ high shutter speed, or night photography ability to go higher than ISO800, say ISO3200, would allow me to capture objects on fixed tripod instead of setting up my EQ mount, or that swivel screen would be handy for video in certain usage, etc.

It's when you run into these "outliers" more and more then you should consider the next camera body.

Upgrade Canon EOS Rebel XS / 1000D to ?

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