There will be lots of evidence of tax avoidance, but then that isn't illegal. Tax evasion on the other hand is what they will be after.
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Apple Under Investigation for $1.3 Billion Italian Tax Fraud
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There will be lots of evidence of tax avoidance, but then that isn't illegal. Tax evasion on the other hand is what they will be after.
Changing the laws takes time and on this particular subject it needs an international effort, meanwhile let's at least look into legally shady practices. I'm not a lawyer but I can assume it's not always so black and white "capslock legally". Of course I agree that if a tax avoidance practice is currently 101% legal, while (to me) morally deplorable (aren't these the same companies that make a big deal out of supporting gay marriage and the like? apparently they care about social issues only when it doesn't cost them money), there's nothing a government can do to stop them (well except special temporary laws if the situation is so bad it calls for it).
Because Amazon and Apple don't employe any US Citizens, right?
All those citizens that work for Apple/Amazon pay their taxes. Without Apple they wouldn't even be employed. Be happy they haven't sent all their engineers off-shore. There are plenty of more talented people and engineers world-wide. So, yeah, let's tax Apple so much that it doesn't have a reason to innovate, stay in America and create jobs.
Also, don't forget that Apple pays $1 in $40 of all corporate income tax. Yeah, hinder them for being successful..
Regular citizens do not pay taxes to the last cent. There are small business owners who don't pay a dime, super markets with cash only, gas stations and a variety of other places. There are an unbelievable amount of people drawing disability benefits who aren't disabled, food stamps, etc. It is the middle/upper class who pays their fair share of taxes. Those middle/upper class typically work for multinational corporations like Amazon/Apple or the government. They have ways to write off taxes too. Do some research.
I'm struggling to find sense in any of this.
I don't see how the illegal practices by regular citizens and small businesses you cited make avoidance practices by big corporation any more bearable (morally). Two wrongs make a right?
Next time I'll write "law abiding US and EU citizens" to be clearer.
May I add, your fellow citizens from NY (well, 75% of the voters) apparently don't share your view on this
That a big signal of change, I believe. A wake up call, maybe.Italy is on the verge of bankruptcy and Apple has loads of cash, so going after companies for handouts is to be expected. That said, if Apple (or any company) did commit tax fraud they should pay the requisite penalties.
P.S. - Speaking of Italy, I hear Sotheby's is auctioning a bunch of Italian rifles from world War II. They are supposedly in pristine condition having only been dropped once.
P.S. - Speaking of Italy, I hear Sotheby's is auctioning a bunch of Italian rifles from world War II. They are supposedly in pristine condition having only been dropped once.
Corruption is status quo in the rest of the world, especially places like Italy where the Mob originated and Central/South America.
The most likely reason for this smack down is the desperate need for revenue (the euphamism for taxes government likes to use) for Italian redistribution to all the people who refuse to work or improve their station in life (social welfare/nanny statism).
The most likely reason for this smack down is the desperate need for revenue (the euphamism for taxes government likes to use) for Italian redistribution to all the people who refuse to work or improve their station in life (social welfare/nanny statism).
As a European, you tend to not take seriously anything the Italian Government or Courts do or say.......track record and all that
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Yeah but it's got 60 million people. It's in the top 25 countries in terms of population. This is clearly coming form someone who is not working in the business community.
Some American users responses to this make me chuckle wholeheartedly
Glad to know you're ok with multinational corporations like Amazon and Apple avoiding (even in perfectly legal ways) to pay billions in taxes both in the US and Europe every year
I don't pay one cent more in taxes than I am legally obligated to pay. I have no problem with Apple or any other business practicing the same. There's a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion.
Like you know how much business they do in Italy.
It would be wise if you'd think before you speak. Italy has a population of 60 million people. That's a little under what Texas and California have combined, the two biggest populated states in the US, which amount for 20% of US's total population.
I'm sure Tim Cook will just gladly ditch Italy.
Again, it would be wise if you'd think before you speak.
I recall seeing similarly stupid comments when Apple was falling foul of the EU's two year warranty law.
I know that on a site like this, people are more likely to give Apple the benefit of the doubt (myself included), but why shouldn't we expect companies - even those we may like - to follow the law in the countries they operate?
Some American users responses to this make me chuckle wholeheartedly
Glad to know you're ok with multinational corporations like Amazon and Apple avoiding (even in perfectly legal ways) to pay billions in taxes both in the US and Europe every year
Yeah a shakedown...because we're talking about companies who NEVER practiced any kind of tax avoidance and do their best to contribute with taxes to the countries where their businesses take place....right.
Nothing wrong in LOOKING INTO the matter. Apple doesn't lack lawyers to defend itself.
But when natural distaster strikes and Apple and Amazon donates millions of dollars, how much do you donate? Probably nothing at best.
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exactly, and consumers have loopholes or incentives too.
Pay it and pass the cost on to Italian consumers to recoup. 16gb iPhone 6's for $5000 euros will get a couple of shakedown artist politicians ousted for sure.
Apple just buy Italy and turn it into iTaly
That would be cool. Then Apple can make everything there and avoid paying taxes to themselves...legally!
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Probably not. Most people in the US, at least, don't care to vote or vote for the right person. Then again, how many people campaigning are any good to begin with.
I quote you 100%.
Too many here believe Apple to be untouchable.
Let them (Italy's IRS) do the investigation and see what they come up with.
It is true that too many multinationals avoid paying taxes in the countries where they do business. And they achieve this legally in most cases, but i bet they find illegal ways to do it also.
Fraud is fraud, like it or not. And fraud needs to be dealt with. Especially 1.3 billion dollars.
I'm struggling to find sense in any of this.
I don't see how the illegal practices by regular citizens and small businesses you cited make avoidance practices by big corporation any more bearable (morally). Two wrongs make a right?
Next time I'll write "law abiding US and EU citizens" to be clearer.
May I add, your fellow citizens from NY (well, 75% of the voters) apparently don't share your view on this
The fact is Apple presents their income reports. They are showing what they are earning and what they are paying in taxes. I'm trying to emphasize they aren't doing anything wrong. It is actually regular citizens who do the tax avoidance illegally.
Feel free.
Clearly it is exactly 75% of the people who do not agree.
Yeah, huge wake up calls. The percentage would heavily change if we changed voting laws to the following: Must have submitted more than $1 in taxes. All these illegal immigrants popping out kids and people drawing benefits would be eradicated bringing the % down to 0. Unlike you, we actually support companies who pay their fair share of taxes. What we don't support are those people drawing from the government and paying zero taxes. Until the Supreme court in the United States of America rules that Apple is doing something wrong, then you have nothing to say.
Again, Apple is doing nothing illegal. They are paying more taxes than a majority of corporations (look it up). They employ the middle class which represents the majority of income taxes collected.
If Apple is indeed doing something illegally, may they get the proper punishment.
I think we are all missing the obvious here:
Apple is doomed.
Sorry this statement is automatically required in every forum on here evidently.
Apple is doomed.
Sorry this statement is automatically required in every forum on here evidently.
Italian law makers have gone after one multinational, proved a case and won. Then another, and another.
Good on them. There will come a time where other countries follow suit.
I can't imagine Apple have it stashed in cash in a secret safe in one of their stores so it'll be provable if it's true.
Wh-what? A-a-apple n-not p-paying it's f-f-fair sh-share of t-t-tax? D-don't b-b-be Si-cily.
Good on them. There will come a time where other countries follow suit.
I can't imagine Apple have it stashed in cash in a secret safe in one of their stores so it'll be provable if it's true.
Wh-what? A-a-apple n-not p-paying it's f-f-fair sh-share of t-t-tax? D-don't b-b-be Si-cily.
There will be lots of evidence of tax avoidance, but then that isn't illegal. Tax evasion on the other hand is what they will be after.
From the Italian government (and most other governments now) standpoint, tax avoidance = tax evasion. Things will only get worse as governments are spending more then they are making.
How could you think otherwise when it's the Italian courts deciding
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Or anything/anyone else.
So do many other companies, and governments.
Apple should just buy Italy straight out in cash and be done with it ...
If you really want corporatism, be prepared to work for 50 cents in hour and do the job "better" than workers in China... or so we're constantly told to compete and all that...
Who isn't in the new normal? You?
Apple can pull out of everywhere it wants. After that point it will hopefully stop getting corporate welfare as well.
Wow, a reasoned post from someone in this thread. Thank you.
Country, person, company... when it's a race to the bottom then nobody should be surprised when breakdown occurs.
Global market. Not plural. We have one globe. Otherwise it's not global.
Emerging countries are winning because they are not demanding living wages, which includes you at some point. Their economies are being built on false pretenses and devaluation of labor - which is the only repercussion of going global, which is why governments are struggling. Canning the corporate welfare and other entitlements to companies taxpayers pay for might help, but anyone with even half a brain can see the one outcome to all of this.
Product prices go up to make corporate leaders richer. Even Ronald Reagan admitted as such, back when he was fully functional. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJDhS4oUm0M
What does cheese have to do with anything?
Some book, about playing stupid infantile games where those in power move the cheese and laugh as you chase after it? Nothing about who cut the cheese as well, and those that do merely laugh and tell you that it's just an exotic aroma as you continue to scamper for crumbs.
And Apple, with corporate welfare, lobbyists, and getting around anything it can to score higher "profit" - funny how few mention these even those those are absolutely going on as well as anything else.
Some American users responses to this make me chuckle wholeheartedly
Glad to know you're ok with multinational corporations like Amazon and Apple avoiding (even in perfectly legal ways) to pay billions in taxes both in the US and Europe every year
Yeah a shakedown...because we're talking about companies who NEVER practiced any kind of tax avoidance and do their best to contribute with taxes to the countries where their businesses take place....right.
Nothing wrong in LOOKING INTO the matter. Apple doesn't lack lawyers to defend itself.
What exactly is the problem with, as you put it, "perfectly legal ways" of avoiding taxes? Nobody wants to pay them and just because you have a load of cash in the bank doesn't change that.
If you don't want people using loopholes then get rid of the loopholes. Stop having the laws on the books and then criticizing the people that use them to their advantage.
Waste of time. There's no possible way Apple will be guilty of this. Apple should just threaten to withdraw all products from Italy and let's see what happens.
I'd gladly pay twice the tax bill in legal fees to keep money out of the hands of this corrupt, socialist regime.
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Why -- are you going to send some mob goon out to get him for talking ill of the motherland?
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Why -- are you going to send some mob goon out to get him for talking ill of the motherland?