Should I Lens upgrade or other?

nateo200 said:

Already mentioned but the importance of an external recorder is important so I'll bring it up again! Being able to pull 10-bit 4:2:2 or even 8-bit 4:2:2 is a HUGE game changer and even if you get something like an Intensity Shuttle that needs to be tethered to a computer its great because if you have a scene that really needs that extra color or dynamic range or whatever you capture it (albeit difficult with a computer tethered but still possible). Going from 8-bit to 10-bit is beautiful though, I'm not sure if the C100 does it I was under the impression it still only did 8-bit 4:2:2 but regardless its still better than 8-bit 4:2:0 compressed AVCHD or MPEG-2. Atmos Ninja is going to be one of the best external recorders, if you want cheaper Blackmagic Hypershuttle 2 will get the job done but its more fragile and I keep hearing about broken BNC connectors (for the HD-SDI in and out) from very little field abuse but it is substantially cheaper and other than sensitive BNC connectors it seams to work fine....just keep in mind timecode over HDMI is NOT standard and so HD-SDI is better if you can afford a recorder with it...HD-SDI also has a more professional connection (BNC) that are less likely to fall out vs HDMI although I've never had massive issues with HDMI cables falling out and they do make locking HDMI cables that will port on any device very well.

As for 4K...yes it will be some time but don't completely ignore it. 1080p/2K is fine for most things but if you ever feel a project might be worth capturing in the best quality you could always rent a RED Scarlet or RED Epic and get your feet wet with that type of workflow which really isn't that bad. I hesitate to say 4K capture makes things future proof and that 4K is the only way to capture as RED does plenty of brain washing with that (don't get me wrong I love RED but they bash anything that isn't an Epic...) but it does have some merit...that said a good movie in "only" 1080p beats someone who thought having a RED Epic would automatically make everything better.

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The C100 is 4:2:2 8 bit, although the Canon log gamma handles this well with the Ninja 2 so it's nothing nearly as bad as AVCHD, let alone dSLR footage. That said, I consider the Ninja 2 to be a really inferior piece of gear, although it gets the job done and obviously provides files that are as good as any other recorder... but the screen is horrible and the pulldown detection poor. Unreliable, too. If you get the black magic camera (which I don't really recommend, but the quality should be the best available for the money) this is a non-issue as it records in better codecs and has excellent DR. I have heard it is a popular B cam for the Alexa from steadicam operators, and that is high praise.

4k is nothing to worry about until a client demands it... I have yet to see evidence that it matters since I've yet to see a 4k display. It's THAT far from being adopted by most consumers. Even most DCPs are 2k projected on 4k projectors. Furthermore, the Epic isn't a lot sharper than the C100/C300/Alexa, as they all derive 1080p from a generous oversample. Don't believe the hype. The Epic handles tungsten light and low light poorly; it's better for very high end stuff than lower end stuff, especially since the footage takes a lot of grading to shine. The Dragon looks cool, though. That said the Epic is pretty good for what it is, just not substantively better than lower resolution cameras overall... just a little less blocky when you punch in or crop.

Policar said:

The C100 is 4:2:2 8 bit, although the Canon log gamma handles this well with the Ninja 2 so it's nothing nearly as bad as AVCHD, let alone dSLR footage. That said, I consider the Ninja 2 to be a really inferior piece of gear, although it gets the job done and obviously provides files that are as good as any other recorder... but the screen is horrible and the pulldown detection poor. Unreliable, too. If you get the black magic camera (which I don't really recommend, but the quality should be the best available for the money) this is a non-issue as it records in better codecs and has excellent DR. I have heard it is a popular B cam for the Alexa from steadicam operators, and that is high praise.

4k is nothing to worry about until a client demands it... I have yet to see evidence that it matters since I've yet to see a 4k display. It's THAT far from being adopted by most consumers. Even most DCPs are 2k projected on 4k projectors. Furthermore, the Epic isn't a lot sharper than the C100/C300/Alexa, as they all derive 1080p from a generous oversample. Don't believe the hype. The Epic handles tungsten light and low light poorly; it's better for very high end stuff than lower end stuff, especially since the footage takes a lot of grading to shine. The Dragon looks cool, though. That said the Epic is pretty good for what it is, just not substantively better than lower resolution cameras overall... just a little less blocky when you punch in or crop.

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I figured as much...God when clients start demanding 4K delivery...lets just say the wallet is going to hurt even more with hard drive and GPU investments :O haha. I'm not a 4K freak by anymeans though and I actually prefer Alexa to Epic. I think Alexa 2.8K RAW scales to 4K beautifully when its needed. I have played with Epic footage and would agree that it handles tungsten light weird...Honestly I got bored grading Epic and Scarlet footage where as I found the Black Magic Cinema camera RAW to look nicer for some reason (although I personally don't like its form factor, smaller sensor, etc.). Just curious would you say Canon Log Gamma scales well into a 10-bit container to get closer to 10-bit 4:2:2? Even if it doesn't 8-bit 4:2:2 straight to uncompressed/ProRes is gonna be beautiful.

nateo200 said:

I figured as much...God when clients start demanding 4K delivery...lets just say the wallet is going to hurt even more with hard drive and GPU investments :O haha. I'm not a 4K freak by anymeans though and I actually prefer Alexa to Epic. I think Alexa 2.8K RAW scales to 4K beautifully when its needed. I have played with Epic footage and would agree that it handles tungsten light weird...Honestly I got bored grading Epic and Scarlet footage where as I found the Black Magic Cinema camera RAW to look nicer for some reason (although I personally don't like its form factor, smaller sensor, etc.). Just curious would you say Canon Log Gamma scales well into a 10-bit container to get closer to 10-bit 4:2:2? Even if it doesn't 8-bit 4:2:2 straight to uncompressed/ProRes is gonna be beautiful.

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Yes, I MUCH prefer the Alexa to the Epic. As both an editor and shooter. The Epic has a lot of resolution for big widescreen images, but its image isn't very pleasing in any other respect, and even the gains in resolution are not that significant, plus it works poorly in certain light. Epic footage usually looks soft to me at 4k anyway, sure there's more resolution to be measured but how much better is the image? Not a lot. And you have to make sure everything else from art to your lenses to your ACs' abilities is up to snuff to get that tiny basically invisible gain. In my opinion, the sharpest 1080p cameras are the CX100s, sharper than Epic and Alexa downscaled, but they are so sharp they alias at times.

I've yet to work with the Black Magic Cinema Camera but I was shooting a spot on the Alexa and the MK-V operator said that he saw the Black Magic Cinema Camera on a lot of shoots working as an Alexa b cam. Granted the same is said of the C300 (they have a similar "look") but from what I gathered he felt the BMCC (not the pocket camera) was the best deal in B cams going and matched the specs of the Alexa better. It has horrible quirks (a lack of AA filter among them), but the image seems nice.

I don't really know what you mean about C300 footage scaling to 10 bit since the only displays I work with are RGB and rec709 (we do lower end work, primarily tv) so I can't really appreciate the difference in look between 8 bit and 10 bit files, just the increased flexibility in post before posterizing sets it. I find Canon log to work really well, though, but it's difficult to expose by eye and nowhere as nice as log c of course. This is a substantial weakness but Canon handles it well and if you expose well it shouldn't be a substantive one. But heavily graded Alexa footage is very subtly "smoother" for sure and looks better in the first place from being shot on an Alexa.

Does BM Pocket Cam output true 422 from HDMI?

Matteusclement,

If you haven't found it already, according to page 15 of the BlackMagic Camera Manual (July 2013) (which you can download from the website):

HDMI Out

"The micro HDMI port of your Pocket Cinema Camera outputs 10-bit 4:2:2 HD video at 1920 x 1080 while recording. It can be used to output video to routers, monitors, capture devices, broadcast switchers and other HDMI devices."

I double-checked my facts this time! However, if you've handled the camera, you probably won't have much faith in this port until someone creates a cable lock for it, which they likely will. Eventually. It looks even less reassuring that a regular HDMI port which is nasty enough. In principal it seems you could gaffer tape the hell out of it in the meantime and work around the SD card limits for Pro Res if not DNG.

From what I understand, recorders don't work with the HDMI output from the 5d2 because the signal drops to SD while recording and it has the black bars at top and bottom and the what-not. Maybe Magic Lantern has a workaround for that but I don't recall hearing that.

Magic Lantern has the RAW hack for 5d2 and 5d3. I downloaded it but haven't gotten around to risking it yet. I don't remember what the frame rate on the 5d2 hack is though, might be sub 24.


If you have any money left over after Xmas (which you shouldn't if we've been successful in this forum) consider a wireless transmitter/ext. monitor set up: useful for that jib arm, steadiecam, carmount, helicopter cam, nagging producer:

1. Paralinx Arrow Plus: Wireless HD transmitter. $1295.

2. AbleCine Wireless Video: $1150.

3. IDX CW-1 Cam Wave: $735 at B&H.


Under $100 Stocking Stuffers: If you haven't checked out these little guys...

1. Cardelini Card-A-Link: $20 to $53. In addition to general grip rigging, they can be ideal for camera rig mounting solutions as they are extraordinarily lightweight and can be adapted to mount 5/8, 3/8, and 1/4 20.

2. 16x9 Mini QR Plate. Great for monitors, audio recorders, boompole micmounts, etc. Best thing is P&C now makes them for $35 instead of $81 for the original 16x9 version.

On Black Friday, remember: Go broke or go home!

ive been looking to invest in a epic or alexa as my next camera. I would like to get into film and music video production more on top of my photography. question is where can you purchase a alexa from ?