Apple Remembers Nelson Mandela on Its Homepage

skottichan said:

Yes, he committed acts of terrorism, so did the American colonists.

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I think you meant the British rectumists. Maybe the Boer (Dutch, German, etc.) ileumists? (I can see that it all goes back to passing something, somehow). Correct spelling and some cursory knowledge of history helps to make a point—other than that, skottchian [sic] you are onto something.

Azazello007 said:

one small correction (of usage): he died.

We don't pass, folks: we all die.

Have the courage to name things by their names to honor Mandela who was ready to die for what he believed in: "I am prepared to die."

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MacRumors is not a newspaper. It is a blog. They aren't bound to traditional journalistic standards.

MacRumors is not obliged to publish the cookie cutter "John Doe died Wednesday night after a long battle with lung cancer. He was 59." type of announcement.

That said, I'd attribute the unconventional wording on the immaturity of some of the MacRumors writing staff.

If you want the proper obit, go visit NYTimes.com.

Why doesn't this thread have the minimum 100 post requirement like other political threads?

nylon said:

Since when was the apartheid regime not considered a terrorist regime. It sure acted like one. Oh that's right white terrorism is less evil then terrorism committed by people of a darker skin tone.

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He didn't say the apartheid regime wasn't a terrorist regime, or any less evil than Mandela's. The fact that his opponents were also evil doesn't somehow magically wipe Mandela's slate clean.

Mandela good. Haters bad. Incorrect thinking will result in mandatory re-education.

Apple also honored George Harrison in 2001 when he died.

Anyway, RIP Nelson Mandela. I never really read that much about him other than what I learned in school about him, but I always respected the type of person he is, the way he stuck to what he believed in, and his incredible ability for forgiveness. I think we can all learn from that.

I actually never learned who he was in school. All I know (from hearing about him randomly) is that he was jailed, helped end the apartheid, and became president. Sounds like a hero.

mpantone said:

MacRumors is not a newspaper. It is a blog. They aren't bound to traditional journalistic standards.

MacRumors is not obliged to publish the cookie cutter "John Doe died Wednesday night after a long battle with lung cancer. He was 59." type of announcement.

That said, I'd attribute the unconventional wording on the immaturity of some of the MacRumors writing staff.

If you want the proper obit, go visit NYTimes.com.

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euphemism are euphemisms. cookie-cutter squeamishness calls for the usage of "passing"—and unfortunately, this is exactly what is conventionally uttered to avoid the word death.

As to where I should go; I refrain from commenting.

proline said:

Great guy, big proponent of freedom and liberty. Of course if you didn't agree with him he could always send his wife to murder you by tying a burning tire around your neck. And of course once he got power and she became a liability he dumped her. Other than that though, Mandela was a wonderful person.

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sfrancis928 said:

Oh c'mon, Mandela would never do that since he cleaned up his act. If you did disagree with his policies he would do nothing more than shake your hand and secretly order a 7-year tax audit on your non-profit organization, like he did with Dr. Peter Hammond.

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proline said:

Incorrect. Mandela said that there is "no alternative to armed and violent resistance" and helped organize the ANC into a cell structure to facilitate persistent violence. Over the years, the ANC was involved in the deaths of thousands. This went on for thirty years, during which time Mandela somehow convinced a bunch of people he was a man of peace.

Now a person could well come to the conclusion that violence was justified against apartheid (or communism for that matter). However, the point remains that Mandela was a man of violence, nothing like JP2.

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Oh look. It's these guys. Didn't take long for you to show up.

I love when people go out of their way to poo-poo the good things someone has done by bringing up the negative things they've done, as well. Are all the people you look up to free of blemish? Remember, behind every castle there is a crook--behind every amazing individual, there is the underbelly of their life that doesn't look so great in the public eye. I could give names but you could pick literally anyone who is cherished by the masses and I can guarantee you they've done/said things they're probably not proud of. Hell, America was built by these types of people

And let's not forget the atrocities committed against black South Africans that led to the violence the pre-prison bid Mandela advocated. Not saying you fight fire with fire, but what do you do when nothing else works? Something had to give. Apartheid was NOT Jim Crow, so please don't even attempt to imply that Mandela should've taken the MLK Jr. route.

And most importantly, don't forget that he denounced that violence after walking out of prison. Now, that doesn't absolve him of his past. But it does show that he recognized the error of his ways as any good man would do.

Stay classy, sirs.

Was wondering when apple would do this again. Class act apple!

taran420 said:

as soon as i saw the thread, i know it would get ugly.

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Mandela was no saint. He did advocate violence and was branded a terrorist, and had ties to Marxist communists.

Given the conditions of apartheid, it's hard to stay saintly white and gain real change to an entrenched system built on oppression.

Mentioning the events of his life should not "get ugly" for anyone that has opened a book and gained a little knowledge beforehand.

George Washington emancipated his slaves and signed the fugitive slave law...contradiction and yet Washington is the most revered figure in American history. Revolution and revolutionaries is a dirty business.

Historically Mandela will be remembered as one of the good guys, with good reason.

fedup flyer said:

I see all of the acts of terrorism that Mandella engaged in that landed him in jail have been forgotten or just brushed aside.

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Don't believe that. Too many bar fights are staged while the thief goes to work.

America's "Klan" is basically an FBI jobs program, so it's no mystery who supported apartheid all those years.

sfrancis928 said:

He didn't say the apartheid regime wasn't a terrorist regime, or any less evil than Mandela's. The fact that his opponents were also evil doesn't somehow magically wipe Mandela's slate clean.

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So in order to be post-humously lauded for the work done in a human lifetime, one must live a pristine life? No one wiped Mandela's slate clean. However, the work he did in attempting to reconcile the nation peacefully and preventing the wholesale culling of the white population post-apartheid speaks volumes of his character as a human being. The author of the original comment to which I responded is entitled to his/her own opinion. Though I would wager there is hint of bias/jadedness in the thought process that led to his/her unbalanced statement.

Azazello007 said:

I think you meant the British rectumists. Maybe the Boer (Dutch, German, etc.) ileumists? (I can see that it all goes back to passing something, somehow). Correct spelling and some cursory knowledge of history helps to make a point—other than that, skottchian [sic] you are onto something.

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Thank you, I've only a smallish bit of knowledge of the early days of South African colonization from some university level history classes. Most of my modern knowledge of SA comes from friends and acquaintances in South Africa.

sfrancis928 said:

Hold up. You didn't REALLY just try to justify terrorism, did you?

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You bet I did. These were indigenous peoples fighting back against colonizers who reduced them to human waste. Apartheid is one of the ugliest systems in recent history.

trife said:

Oh look. It's these guys. Didn't take long for you to show up.

I love when people go out of their way to poo-poo the good things someone has done by bringing up the negative things they've done, as well. Are all the people you look up to free of blemish? Remember, behind every castle there is a crook--behind every amazing individual, there is the underbelly of their life that doesn't look so great in the public eye. I could give names but you could pick literally anyone who is cherished by the masses and I can guarantee you they've done/said things they're probably not proud of. Hell, America was built by these types of people

And let's not forget the atrocities committed against black South Africans that led to the violence the pre-prison bid Mandela advocated. Not saying you fight fire with fire, but what do you do when nothing else works? Something had to give. Apartheid was NOT Jim Crow, so please don't even attempt to imply that Mandela should've taken the MLK Jr. route.

And most importantly, don't forget that he denounced that violence after walking out of prison. Now, that doesn't absolve him of his past. But it does show that he recognized the error of his ways as any good man would do.

Stay classy, sirs.

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I never said Mandela was wrong to use terrorism and thuggery to achieve his political aims- I am in no position to judge him. What I did try to say is that if you want to remember the man, you need to remember all of the man. If all you care about it the myth, fine, but there is no need to post tributes to the myth on the day of the man's death- the myth is still alive, it is the man that needs to be remembered.

It's also worth remembering the truth about Mandela's accomplishments- rather than eliminating the injustice of tyranny for the black majority by lifting the blacks out of poverty, he reduced inequality by dragging everyone down. Since 1990, South Africa has experienced one of the biggest drops in life expectancy in the history of humanity. Economic development has been nil, and the country has had a series of disastrous tribal presidents, some of whom are HIV deniers that have cost countless lives.

There is nothing "classy" about sweeping Mandela's many human victims under the rug, and there is nothing classy about replacing the truth of post-apartheid South Africa's mixed results with a myth that you find comforting. There are real people living there you know, not just myths. They deserved to be thought of as real people.

Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.

Anyone who wasn't alive back when apartheid was still in policy (read: millennials) needs to get re-educated.

proline said:

I never said Mandela was wrong to use terrorism and thuggery to achieve his political aims- I am in no position to judge him. What I did try to say is that if you want to remember the man, you need to remember all of the man. If all you care about it the myth, fine, but there is no need to post tributes to the myth on the day of the man's death- the myth is still alive, it is the man that needs to be remembered.

It's also worth remembering the truth about Mandela's accomplishments- rather than eliminating the injustice of tyranny for the black majority by lifting the blacks out of poverty, he reduced inequality by dragging everyone down. Since 1990, South Africa has experienced one of the biggest drops in life expectancy in the history of humanity. Economic development has been nil, and the country has had a series of disastrous tribal presidents, some of whom are HIV deniers that have cost countless lives.

There is nothing "classy" about sweeping Mandela's many human victims under the rug, and there is nothing classy about replacing the truth of post-apartheid South Africa's mixed results with a myth that you find comforting. There are real people living there you know, not just myths. They deserved to be thought of as real people.

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Bollocks. So you're telling me that on the day you die, people are going to sit around and remember you for EVERYTHING you've done? This is just an example, but say you cheated on your wife but reconciled and went on to have a fruitful marriage. You're really expecting me to believe that you want her to remember and reflect back on that negative part of your relationship with her on the day you die? If so, well, you're a sad individual.

And the man IS being remembered--the changed man who forgave his oppressors and asked for forgiveness from those he hurt. Again, that doesn't erase his pre-prison past, or even absolve him from mistakes and questionable decisions post-prison (Winnie comes to mind). But are we really going to deny his peaceful contributions to society since coming out of prison simply because of his past? So if I eff up early in life, I'm doomed to be remembered that way even if I do a complete 180 degree turn later in life?

And yes, I know about the real people living in South Africa. I've been close friends for 15 years with an individual who was born there, raised there and has been back living there for 13 years now since commencing studies in the U.S. It isn't a perfect country, but I really feel like you're putting a lot of the current issues in South Africa squarely on the back of a man who was last president in 1999.

winkchris said:

What other companies do this in honor of many historic figures? Not Samdung or LG!

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Neither did many other companies...what's your point? Why do you feel the need to express your childish hatred towards Samsung on a thread that's not even related?

Oh, and you spelled "Samsung" wrong dude!

trife said:

Oh look. It's these guys. Didn't take long for you to show up.

I love when people go out of their way to poo-poo the good things someone has done by bringing up the negative things they've done, as well. Are all the people you look up to free of blemish? Remember, behind every castle there is a crook--behind every amazing individual, there is the underbelly of their life that doesn't look so great in the public eye. I could give names but you could pick literally anyone who is cherished by the masses and I can guarantee you they've done/said things they're probably not proud of. Hell, America was built by these types of people

And let's not forget the atrocities committed against black South Africans that led to the violence the pre-prison bid Mandela advocated. Not saying you fight fire with fire, but what do you do when nothing else works? Something had to give. Apartheid was NOT Jim Crow, so please don't even attempt to imply that Mandela should've taken the MLK Jr. route.

And most importantly, don't forget that he denounced that violence after walking out of prison. Now, that doesn't absolve him of his past. But it does show that he recognized the error of his ways as any good man would do.

Stay classy, sirs.

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If you concede that Mandela was corrupt and violent just like every other power-hungry oligarch, then he doesn't deserve to be exalted like a god all of a sudden.

tech4all said:

Neither did many other companies...what's your point? Why do you feel the need to express your childish hatred towards Samsung on a thread that's not even related?

Oh, and you spelled "Samsung" wrong dude!

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I seriously doubt that wibkchris used a "d" instead of an "s" by accident... samDUNG

skottichan said:

I know right? Fighting against the white minority, who cracked down on the black majority for wanting things like protection under the law, voting and property ownership. How dare he.

Yes, he committed acts of terrorism, so did the American colonists.

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I think the point that was being made is that these days, people who take up armed resistance against the government (like Mandela did) are labelled terrorists and are portrayed as inhuman monsters bent on senseless killing. They can end up with even less rights than black people under Apartheid if they end up in Guantanamo or some extraordinary rendition centre.

History is written by the victors, as they say. Mandela went on from being designated a terrorist to winning the Nobel Peace Prize and US Medal of Freedom, and becoming an icon for peace and freedom all around the world.

The US Congress voted for sanctions on the Apartheid regime, but they were vetoed by Reagan because the ANC was considered a terrorist organisation at the time. What about the organisations considered terrorists today? Will the PLO one day be considered heroes against a brutal regime in the same way the ANC is today? What about ETA?

Let's take a recent news article about the ANC's past:

Forbes said:

Clearly there were those who, back in 1986, viewed the ANC as a terrorist organization. And it is true that the ANC did engage in some violent acts. However, none of the violence perpetrated by the ANC was as heinous as the violence and acts of terrorism carried out by South Africa’s apartheid government. It was, after all, President P.W. Botha who gave the order to bomb the South African Council of Churches in 1988 just as it was with the many South African government leaders preceding Botha who, for decades, killed and maimed black South Africans by the thousands, whether they be political activists or small children.

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Now, let's substitute ANC = PLO, South Africa = Israel, and see if it sounds like something that we could be reading in the future. To me, it sounds remarkably plausible.

The future? said:

Clearly there were those who, back in 2008, viewed the PLO as a terrorist organization. And it is true that the PLO did engage in some violent acts. However, none of the violence perpetrated by the PLO was as heinous as the violence and acts of terrorism carried out by Israel's occupation government. It was, after all, the Israeli Defence Forces who massacred hundreds of Palestinian civilians in Lydda in 1948. For decades to follow, the IDF continued to kill and maim Palestinian civilians by the thousands, whether they be political activists or small children.

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Note: We at SpringsUp enjoying interacting with the MR community. Usually, we wouldn't get involved in sensitive discussions like this, because it could offend some of our customers. However, we'd like to point out that we're not expressing support or condemnation for any particular side (PLO/IDF); we're trying to make an abstract point using a concrete example.

It's incredible that there are adults that still use the word "terrorist" without a sense of irony.

Basically if you use the word "terrorist" you are giving away your bias: it means you are against the person you label a terrorist.

That is because one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

So, anyone that labels Mandela a "terrorist" just means they hate black people and supports apartheid.

If you are AGAINST racism & apartheid, then the label you would use for Mandela is "freedom fighter".

There are neutral labels you can use for Mandela as well.

Again, I repeat: if you label Mandela a "terrorist", then you are a racist. No getting around that. You'll have to accept that other people consider you as a racist, and act accordingly.

I'm glad to know that so many MacRumors posters have such perfect lives that when Apple posts a homage to these MacRumors posters on Apple's homepage, no one will be capable of listing a single negative transgression.

Stay classy MacRumors posters...

proline said:

I never said Mandela was wrong to use terrorism and thuggery to achieve his political aims- I am in no position to judge him.

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Yet you judged him when you used the label "terrorism and thuggery".

Was there a reason you prefer to use those terms instead of "freedom fighter?"

proline said:

What I did try to say is that if you want to remember the man, you need to remember all of the man. If all you care about it the myth, fine, but there is no need to post tributes to the myth on the day of the man's death- the myth is still alive, it is the man that needs to be remembered.

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What exactly is the purpose of remembering everything? The only important points to remember are his fight against apartheid, since that would be his primary function.

No one cares about a revolutionary figure's cooking skills, as those aspects of his life doesn't matter.

proline said:

It's also worth remembering the truth about Mandela's accomplishments- rather than eliminating the injustice of tyranny for the black majority by lifting the blacks out of poverty, he reduced inequality by dragging everyone down. Since 1990, South Africa has experienced one of the biggest drops in life expectancy in the history of humanity. Economic development has been nil, and the country has had a series of disastrous tribal presidents, some of whom are HIV deniers that have cost countless lives.

There is nothing "classy" about sweeping Mandela's many human victims under the rug, and there is nothing classy about replacing the truth of post-apartheid South Africa's mixed results with a myth that you find comforting. There are real people living there you know, not just myths. They deserved to be thought of as real people.

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So, was it a myth when blacks were given the right to their own government?

I don't understand your complaint. Are you saying black people were better off under white rule in South Africa?

Pyrrhic Victory said:

If you concede that Mandela was corrupt and violent just like every other power-hungry oligarch, then he doesn't deserve to be exalted like a god all of a sudden.

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I think most people reject that view. It's difficult to view Mandela as an oligarch when he was democratically elected and only served for 5 years. Yeah, that sounds like he was a monsterous oligarch...totally dude.