Geofencing to Unlock Vehicle Functions Detailed in New Apple Patent Application

Consultant · Dec 12, 2013

Oletros said:
http://apcmag.com/Content.aspx?id=1156

http://www.prweb.com/releases/OpenMokoDevPlatform/FICSmartPhone/prweb474790.htm

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1026841/a-truly-linux-phone-gps-debuts

No multi-touch.

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First, none of the other publications listed multi-touch.

Second, article lists that it might copy "two finger scrolling like the PowerBooks and MacBooks." So surely Apple made up the iPhone in two months to copy this product that might copy the Mac multi-touch gestures (but this "innovator" never did release multi-touch).

kdarling said:
As has been posted here many times, the Open Moko multi-touch design predates the iPhone announcement, even if the final device couldn't afford all that was promised.

There were articles about it on Engadget, Infoworld, LinuxDevices, etc. Gizmodo first had an article about it Nov 7, 2006... two months before the iPhone was shown off by Jobs.

Oletros · Dec 12, 2013

Consultant said:
So surely Apple made up the iPhone in two months to copy this product

The one that is always accusing others of copying is you, can you pint a ****ing post where someone has said that the iphone copied that phone?

osx11 · Dec 12, 2013

gnasher729 said:
Can we change the MacRumors software so that all posts making useless NSA references start at -10?

How ironic!

The fact that you think these NSA comments are useless lies at the heart of the problem. People don't seem to care (you included) that they are being monitored 24/7. I don't know why some thing this whole thing is amusing when it is quite serious. Yet people like you downplay this whole issue and pretend it doesn't matter. Well guess what? The United States, the self-proclaimed freedom capital of the world is probably the most heavily spied upon country amongst the Western countries. If this doesn't bother you, then fine.

cmChimera · Dec 12, 2013

Shaun said:
I could invent a flying car with lots of clever diagrams. Doesn't mean it would actually work. You already get a period of time under which your patent application remains secret. So you could use that time to prototype and build the said product or invention before the patent is made public. That would at least stop companies lodging patents for inventions they have no intention of ever using just to stop others from getting there first. Seems a crazy system. If Apple doesn't want to use a patent to make the product then let someone else have it so they can make the product instead. The current system stifles innovation.

And you wouldn't get a patent. You can't just diagram the invention, you have to make the patent so explicit that a person having ordinary skill in the art could take your patent and invent it himself. I'm a 100% positive you can't do that with almost anything, let alone a flying car. And your suggestion doesn't consider numerous factors with inventions. For all we know, Apple could do this, but the costs are outrageous right now so it would be better to release it in 5 years time. But they managed to invent it now. A 20 year patent monopoly makes it possible for Apple to release the invention to the world when it's economically feasible for them AND consumers. Not rush something to the market that won't do anyone any good because it's unaffordable.

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techwhiz said:
Sorry but a lot of these applications are exactly what the previous person said, concept with no idea how to build it.

The current application is nothing more than an extension to "Comfort Access" which allows keyless entry.

Instead of a key transmitter, we use a phone.
Now on the phone we run an app that control smart peripherals, radio, heater/air, remote start etc.

The only real innovation is they want to run an app.
All the other features have been implemented in one form or another.

How they do it with unique hardware is a patent.
The "idea" to do it should not get a patent.

The patent system was for "real" inventions, not proposed inventions.
The idea of you can't patent it unless it can be built, is what it was founded on. It was based on filing a patent on an "invention".

100 year ago, if you didn't have a working prototype in some form, no patent.

This is why you cannot patent a "perpetual motion machine", etc.

Again, TVs existed before patents on flat panel televisions and LEDs came about. If you manage to invent a substantially better or different way of doing something that already exists, and it meets patentability standards, it's a patent.

Oletros · Dec 12, 2013

cmChimera said:
And you wouldn't get a patent. You can't just diagram the invention, you have to make the patent so explicit that a person having ordinary skill in the art could take your patent and invent it himself. I'm a 100% positive you can't do that with almost anything, let alone a flying car. And your suggestion doesn't consider numerous factors with inventions.

Half of those software patents are just diagrams, there are no implementation details.

Consultant · Dec 12, 2013

Oletros said:
The one that is always accusing others of copying is you, can you pint a ****ing post where someone has said that the iphone copied that phone?

Just pointing out the facts proved the post as wrong.

Fact: Openmoko had no multi-touch, they never released a multi-touch device to the public.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko

Yes, we all know that there are "touch-screen" phones before iPhone, but they don't work well -- even with stylus.

The premise that iPhone copied the multi-touch idea from a vaporware device is weak. Thinking that multi-touch capacitive display on the iPhone = stylus driven inaccurate touch screen is even weaker.

imola.zhp · Dec 12, 2013

Shaun said:
I really fail to get excited by all these Apple patents as so few of them ever see the light of day. I don't think anyone should ever be granted a patent until they have actually proved the concept works by actually building and releasing the product. Until that point all patents should be pending. Use it or lose it.

Agreed, I would love to see this released, but truth is, it may never be released. Apple may just be trying to patent every idea possible they have so they can sue anyone that attempts to actually bring a product like this to market.

thedavemc · Dec 12, 2013

Nice idea despite the pic seemingly recommending installation in a 1986 Honda prelude.

efktd · Dec 12, 2013

Are you telling me that you built a time machine... out of a DeLorean?

cmChimera · Dec 12, 2013

Oletros said:
Half of those software patents are just diagrams, there are no implementation details.

I know you're exaggerating on purpose, but let's not pretend that you sit down and read anywhere near a sufficient number of patents to make that claim.

ciociosan · Dec 12, 2013

Great, except for the fact that Apple's geofencing (haven't tried any other, mind you) sucks monkey balls.

I've repeatedly tried using it since it first came out (on different versions of both iOS and the iPhone), and it just doesn't work. Reminders for when I leave home reach me when I'm at the grocery store, and those for when I get to work have even showed up randomly whilst I've been in other nearby cities. I've had everything switched on, and it's as unreliable as tea leaves or sheep entrails.

I realize this is just a concept patent application, but when the underlying tech is as unusable as this, it really doesn't matter.

ssspinball · Dec 12, 2013

ciociosan said:
Great, except for the fact that Apple's geofencing (haven't tried any other, mind you) sucks monkey balls.

What device do you have? Geofenced reminders on my old iPhone 4 and current iPhone 5 have been eerily accurate. No problems at all.

darcyf · Dec 12, 2013

I could swear I heard some mention in a recent keynote about how Apple planned on using the M7 chip tied in with GPS to do things like intelligently sense when you're driving and when you park, then make a note of that spot so you can find your car later... no separate device needed.

Whatever happened to that? Or did I completely just dream that up mid-keynote?

ciociosan · Dec 12, 2013

ssspinball said:
What device do you have? Geofenced reminders on my old iPhone 4 and current iPhone 5 have been eerily accurate. No problems at all.

I've used it on my old 3GS, my current 4S, and my previous work phone, which was a 4. Same disappointing mess every time I've tried it. Glad to hear it's working for you, though. Maybe it's Apple maps and the way they've removed several large cities in my country, but it's still unusable for me.

citi · Dec 12, 2013

ciociosan said:
I've used it on my old 3GS, my current 4S, and my previous work phone, which was a 4. Same disappointing mess every time I've tried it. Glad to hear it's working for you, though. Maybe it's Apple maps and the way they've removed several large cities in my country, but it's still unusable for me.

On my 5, it's dead on.

mdelvecchio · Dec 12, 2013

Shaun said:
I really fail to get excited by all these Apple patents as so few of them ever see the light of day. I don't think anyone should ever be granted a patent until they have actually proved the concept works by actually building and releasing the product. Until that point all patents should be pending. Use it or lose it.

what if your manufacturing partner steals/sells your planned product to somebody else who pays him more and they produce it first? you get no protections because you failed to produce it?

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Shaun said:
I could invent a flying car with lots of clever diagrams.

no you couldnt. you could describe the concept of a flying car, but unless you had the tech thought out (designed) you couldnt invent one.

mdelvecchio · Dec 12, 2013

Oletros said:
Half of those software patents are just diagrams, there are no implementation details.

this is the problem with software patents. software is text. it should be copyrightable (which it already is), not patentable.

RenoG · Dec 12, 2013

I see that in the future horror movies featuring the chic in classic underground garage movie scenes will need retooling.

chrisbru · Dec 12, 2013

9000 said:
So then you'd have to carry your keys anyway. I was assuming the point would be to not carry your keys.

Theoretically, you wouldn't have to carry keys. Depending on the car, it might have the geofencing feature able to work the ignition as well. But you WOULD have a set of keys you could lend someone in the event they want to borrow your car.

But, either way, it provides the convenience of not having to dig my keys out to unlock the car. Especially helpful for people who keep their keys in a bag or purse.

9000 said:
Sure, if Apple does it. I'd love to have my Maps and phone calls work with my car, but Apple has to do that. I'm just saying that Honda's set of apps running within Apple's garden is not going to be very convenient. Except that ability to start the car with the heat on ahead of time could be useful (wouldn't think of it since I live where heating is never needed or wanted).

That's the whole point here. It would be Apple's apps. Hence, iOS in the Car

69650 · Dec 12, 2013

mdelvecchio said:
what if your manufacturing partner steals/sells your planned product to somebody else who pays him more and they produce it first? you get no protections because you failed to produce it?

no you couldn't. you could describe the concept of a flying car, but unless you had the tech thought out (designed) you couldn't invent one.

The patent would simply remain pending for a period of time while you prove the concept works. As for manufacturing partners, well any sensible company would lock down their partners with NDAs and contracts before handing over any plans.

How does the patent office know if my plans are feasible or not? How do they know if I've thought things through?. Their not experts. All they do is check that someone else doesn't already have a patent for what you're proposing before they grant or deny your application. They're just glorified librarians, their not tech experts.

9000 · Dec 12, 2013

chrisbru said:
That's the whole point here. It would be Apple's apps. Hence, iOS in the Car

Yeah, we're arguing about nothing. I was referring to Honda's apps, not Apple's program. I'm looking forward to Apple's real iOS in the Car.

Michael CM1 · Dec 13, 2013

mingoglia said:
So my Prius "sees" my key fob and turns on the interior lights when I approach. The moment I touch the door handle, the doors unlock. I'm sure many other cars do this as well. Is what Apple's patenting actually patentable?

I'm not sure, but I'm glad you and a couple other people have mentioned that it already exists. People acting like it's some sort of futuristic hell where hackers will get into your car all the time. My mom's car, a 2006 Avalon, has the keyless ignition that just has a push button and also the door locks that open if you touch the button on the door handle or trunk while next to it with the fob.

I don't know whether Apple or anybody could patent this. Maybe a variation of it. But I REALLY look forward to this feature becoming standard. There's no reason this type of tech couldn't get rid of needing that key fob if you have your phone. It's just a little circuit inside a box. Most of us already carry phones, so eliminating keys would be quite awesome. I think some door locks for homes can do this already as well.

Now hurry up and make my wallet obsolete aside from cash!

brinary001 · Dec 13, 2013

Even though is probably years in the future, I'm sure I'll still have my ****** '99 Camry..

chrisbru · Dec 13, 2013

9000 said:
Yeah, we're arguing about nothing. I was referring to Honda's apps, not Apple's program. I'm looking forward to Apple's real iOS in the Car.

I guess I missed where the conversation turned to Honda's apps, which aren't mentioned in the article. My bad.

castlerock · Dec 16, 2013

mingoglia said:
So my Prius "sees" my key fob and turns on the interior lights when I approach. The moment I touch the door handle, the doors unlock. I'm sure many other cars do this as well. Is what Apple's patenting actually patentable?

Apple's applying for the patent, so yes. We need to protect these American innovators. They retroactively came up with this idea first even though you can already do with sort of thing with a smartphone on e.g. the Chevy Volt (on iPhone among others).

Go forth and sue, Apple. Don't let people steal your inventions!

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Consultant said:
Please find an actual reputable article from 2006 to back up your fictitious 2006 device.

"The Openmoko Neo 1973 was released in 2007 as a developer handset. The first consumer device, the FreeRunner, didnt come out in mid-2008."
http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/1...s-the-checkered-history-of-open-source-phones

Wiki page has zero mention of multi-touch. It seems that they never released any capacitive touchscreen device to public.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko

Apple continues to pretend this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_(KE850) didn't exist.

Geofencing to Unlock Vehicle Functions Detailed in New Apple Patent Application

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