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rboy505

macrumors regular
Mar 28, 2012
102
22
Today I learned that people use the hardware manufacturer's optional software.

+1.


No idea what it's like in the Windows world, but since when has it been anything but a horrible idea to use WD/Seagate/LaCie etc drive software with OSX?

It's not about hardware quality, it's about bad choices they make upstairs. Go to the Mac section of any of these in the support forums. Last I checked years ago most were full of complaints about problems that hadn't been dealt with in years. OSX users are a tiny fraction of their base. I wouldn't be surprised if their OSX support staff consisted of one person reading manuals when you speak to them, telling you to repair your permissions.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
While there are definitely brands to "avoid" when it comes to hard drives, there's a saying in the IT industry concerning any current persistent storage technology:

"There are two kinds of hard drives - those are have failed, and those that are going to."

:)

But there's also the kind where the manufacturer puts lots of effort into adding software that you pay for, and that does nothing but crapping out the drive. That's Western Digital. Avoid them.

A Mac knows what to do with a hard drive. It doesn't need any weird software on the drive that tries to be "helpful" and fails miserably at it.

----------

I've never installed any vendor's optional software. ever. The add-on software tends to be very buggy and unstable.

With Western Digital, you don't have to install anything. It's already there, and very very hard to get rid off.
 

smithrh

macrumors 68030
Feb 28, 2009
2,723
1,732
I steer friends/family towards PC drives, now that USB 3.0 is prevalent.

Typically, they're a bit cheaper and it also means that they'll have to format the drive before using it.

Plus, no chance of crappy software on the drive.
 

Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
34,150
15,635
California
I don't see why anyone would use Time Machine when they could use Carbon Copy Cloner. Of all the people whining they wish they could go back to Mountain Lion or even Snow Leopard, if they had used CCC, they could EASILY do that just by booting off the drive in question and then restoring back with CCC to the other drive when they're ready. You can even have multiple OS setups that way, each on their own drive if you wanted.

One can do exactly the same thing using a Time Machine backup.
 

bobr1952

macrumors 68020
Jan 21, 2008
2,040
39
Melbourne, FL
I've had great luck with WD drives--as long as I don't use their software. ;)

I don't see why anyone would use Time Machine when they could use Carbon Copy Cloner. Of all the people whining they wish they could go back to Mountain Lion or even Snow Leopard, if they had used CCC, they could EASILY do that just by booting off the drive in question and then restoring back with CCC to the other drive when they're ready. You can even have multiple OS setups that way, each on their own drive if you wanted.

I've had Seagate, WD and back in the day Quantum SCSI with the Amiga. I've yet to have a single drive fail on ANY of them. I guess I'm just lucky (in fact that Amiga 3000 still works fine).

As for Time Machine--best approach is to use both--Time Machine and CCC (or SuperDuper which is what I use)
 

lostdata

macrumors newbie
Nov 27, 2013
1
0
Montreal, Canada
We do data recovery and hardware-wise we found that most consumer-grade drives are pretty much equivalent. The drives brands we see the most are also the manufacturers who got larger market shares. However, we do see some issues with Western Digital drives when the drives lock themselves from smartware issues (or with faulty usb interface encrypting the drive on the hardware level) so we try to stay away from them. Often people will ask what brand we recommend but really, we just recommend you back your things up, no matter what brand you buy ;)
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
One can do exactly the same thing using a Time Machine backup.

I wasn't aware of the newer features since Lion, but I gather you still can't actually "work" in that backup like in CCC (i.e. if you need to get back up and running immediately and finish doing whatever it was you were doing online, the CCC volume will act identical to the internal and when you move it back, anything new you did goes with it. I gather you can boot off the TM backup, but have to immediately restore (which if you need to replace the hard drive and don't have one on hand immediately, it won't do you much good). Plus I still haven't read about any way to schedule WHEN TM does its backups. Every hour is inconvenient for some people. Once a day would more than suffice for my needs. As is, unless I make major changes, I backup a couple of times a month at best since most things are stored online (like posts here) and so there's little that couldn't be updated again or whatever. Even Steam mirrors progress online for many games.
 

Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
34,150
15,635
California
I wasn't aware of the newer features since Lion, but I gather you still can't actually "work" in that backup like in CCC...

That is correct. You can boot from a TM backup and restore, but you can't operate from the backup drive. Like I mentioned in the other thread, both methods have their advantages and this is why I use both.
 

kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
2,606
749
Brunswick, MD
re: Time Machine

No, you're technically correct about that... RAID arrays are not really insurance against data loss, since writing corrupt data to one means a defective backup, period.

The point is, assuming the software is working properly, backups via Time Machine to a NAS using RAID makes it VERY improbable that a hard disk failure will be the source of data loss. Don't forget, even if 2 or 3 drives would fail simultaneously in my NAS, rendering it inoperable? I'd still be just fine as long as I replaced those drives and got it back online before another drive failed inside one of my Macs.

Personally, I've never been a fan of sleep mode, whether it be a PC or a Mac. I've just seen too many issues related to wake from sleep. For example, new HP Elitebook laptops we issued people at my workplace are causing headaches all the time for people with external speakers attached to the docking stations. Apparently, if you take the machine home with you and put it to sleep before bringing it back into work in the morning, when it wakes back up on attaching it to the dock, it doesn't always figure out it has external speakers to use. So audio gets output through the internal laptop speaker until you do a full shutdown/restart.

So yeah, I configure all my Macs at home to never sleep, except for laptops when they're NOT attached to AC wall power.

I've found Time Machine pretty handy *because* it keeps all those previous versions of files, though. I've had several occasions where I was able to use it to bring back a document I created months earlier, before I made "permanent" changes to it, falsely thinking I'd never want the earlier revision again. I agree it has to hurt performance, but I think it's intelligent enough not to take a lot of processor time when a system isn't idle? I know when it kicks on on this machine, I barely notice it -- and I've never noticed a slow-down in gaming I could attribute to it. (Does it postpone running at all when CPU/GPU intensive tasks like games are running? Almost seems like it to me.)



Don't bet on that. The very software in question in this thread, not to mention Apple's own little Mountain Lion "sleep" bug screwed quite a few RAID arrays in the past year, leaving the owners HOSED beyond all recognition. That can't happen with a CCC volume that isn't even attached (and in the Windows world not being attached means no chance of infection). One can always plug a CCC volume in to restore a program that gets hosed without having to restore the entire volume (it just mounts as a regular file drive, after all).

In fact, I personally see no use for Time Machine AT ALL and have never used it even once. Why would I need 50 copies of the same program? Why on earth would I need backups every single hour for the rest of my life? That's got to affect system performance in a negative way. You could NEVER play an intense game since it's going to be constantly backing up. That alone is why I never used it. There are NO controls to set backup times to when you're not using the computer, etc. It's just awful. It's for people that don't know how to work something like CCC on their own. But then I have to wonder if those same people will be able to restore something when it goes wrong since it's much simpler to backup with Time Machine than to restore.

CCC does have options to archive older files and you can schedule it (at your leisure, not Apple's) to backup as often as you want if you prefer to keep a backup drive connected. I simply see no advantage to Time Machine other than it's automatic for people that don't know how to use a computer.

I've had my PPC machine get hosed before with an error that made it unbootable. I just calmly booted off my external CCC backup and then copied back to the internal with CCC and then rebooted and removed the external drive. It was simplicity in itself and had no lengthy re-install OS times + restore. It just copied itself and i was done and back where I left off on the last backup. Yeah, you could lose stuff if you don't backup very often, but that's a scheduling issue not an application issue.
 

ctaya

macrumors newbie
Nov 24, 2013
2
0
We may need to use WD software

There is NO reason to use this custom software.
Sometimes, we need to use WD software to reconfigure the drive into different RAID type. I do not know whether Mavericks has a function allowing us to do that.
 

dumastudetto

macrumors 603
Aug 28, 2013
5,077
7,274
Los Angeles, USA
I don't get why people trust their valuable data with Western Digital. :rolleyes: I only buy Apple drives now and they've never failed me. The latest Time Capsules from Apple are the best external drive solutions on the market and they are incredibly reliable.
 

JesperA

macrumors 6502a
Feb 10, 2012
691
1,079
Sweden
I don't get why people trust their valuable data with Western Digital. :rolleyes: I only buy Apple drives now and they've never failed me. The latest Time Capsules from Apple are the best external drive solutions on the market and they are incredibly reliable.
So much wrong in that statement that it almost hurts my head.

1) Apple does not manufacture any "drives", they have used basically all drive manufacturers in the past, WD, Seagate, Hitachi etc, so your precious "Apple drives" may in fact be a hard drive from your sworn enemy WD.

2) Time Capsule is by design not a good external drive solution, it have always used only one internal drive, giving it no redundancy what so ever, sure, it is good enough for most consumers but stating that it is the best external drive solution on the market is quite laughable. Try convincing anyone that TC is better solution than a Drobo, Synology, Sans Digital or even Caldigit and Iomega.

Your "valuable" data should never be on a single drive, single physical location solution like a TC.
 

mac.fly

macrumors regular
Apr 8, 2008
110
1
UK
with the WD RAID drives that we use (MyBook Studio II), you HAVE to use the WD utility to format the two drives and set up the initial RAID1, as Disk Utility won't do it. [...] And even after setting up the RAID initially, you can immediately uninstall it if you so choose.

I have the same drives. What about that (from the WD manual):

"WD Drive Manager enables the capacity gauge and Safe ShutdownTM"

Is "Safe Shutdown" not important?

I thought the Drive Manager would also display an alert if one of the two internal drives would become defective. How else would we know this?
 
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