NSA Was Able to Capture Live Data From Compromised iPhones in 2008, Including Live Camera, GPS, and More

synergy · Dec 31, 2013

JAT said:
I've never received an Apple product shrinkwrapped, only taped. Tape is impossible to remove from cardboard without me seeing that it has been done. So, they would have to have entire re-packaging systems, with new "Apple" boxes, to do this.

I've hardly ever received any product shrinkwrapped. That is mainly used on a pallet of items, so they don't fall off the pallet, not on an individual item which is all that is sent to my house. And products I have received with this also have other packaging that would have to be opened/replaced. Shrinkwrap is not in question.
And I gotta say, it's still easier to think that Apple's software and design is imperfect than they have been working with governments to check my messages.

So you don't think they could remove the tape without you noticing it? Leave that alone, do you think they could open a box with tape and then reseal a product in a new box with new tape?
It is true software design is imperfect. It is also possible people working for Apple and other companies are on two payrolls as well. Where there is a will there is a way.

iJohnHenry · Dec 31, 2013

synergy said:
So you don't think they could remove the tape without you noticing it? Leave that alone, do you think they could open a box with tape and then reseal a product in a new box with new tape?
It is true software design is imperfect. It is also possible people working for Apple and other companies are on two payrolls as well. Where there is a will there is a way.

Un-wrap, modify, re-wrap, that's all very time consuming.

Just have 2 piles of product, one for people on NSA's 'no-fly' list, and one for the likes of you and me.

And who is actually manufacturing these little chips that are so tasty?

kas23 · Dec 31, 2013

In fact, I'm sure Apple is complicit in this activity. It's no wonder Apple's tax flap go swept under the rug.

fourthtunz · Dec 31, 2013

Rogifan said:
Of course tinfoil hat crowd will claim Apple was allowing it to be installed at Foxconn factories. Too many people in Alex Jones territory these days which is scary.

Alex Jones is just the messenger, and many of the things he has reported on
have been shown to be true. Actually, here in the US most citizens are apathetic about what our government does, I don't think you have to worry about the "tinfoil hat crowd", but about what our governments are doing.

The government is merely a servant―merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
― Mark Twain

MyopicPaideia · Dec 31, 2013

JAT said:
There's a glaring elephant in their room, though. As there usually is with conspiracy theorists. If no money has value (as they are wishing), what are they claiming does have value? They blandly throw around the term "assets", as if we all know what they mean.

Here's a theory on their theory....it was written by someone who has something that once had lots of value (precious metals, crude oil?), but has less now since paper money has become widely used, and they want value back in their "asset", so they wrote a little video condemning the paper money.

Just a couple more points while I'm at it.

Assets mean real physical assets, like your house, car, the food in your fridge, etc. Those have real, inherent value.

Secondly, paper money is NOT widely used today, that's the whole point. In first world countries it is almost completely displaced by non-cash and digital forms. On average, only 1-3% of the money supply in the world is in the form of paper notes.

Phokus · Dec 31, 2013

I remember warning iphone fans about the fingerprint scanner and how the NSA probably has access to it and iphone fans shouted me down. Now it's more than likely true that they have access to your fingerprints (among other things). Anyone who knowingly uses the fingerprint scanner is insane. Hell, i wouldn't be surprised if the iphone 5s scanned your fingerprint even if you didn't enable that capability.

fourthtunz · Dec 31, 2013

MistaBungle said:
As much as I don't like this whole NSA stuff, it seems a little far fetched to think that they intercepted every single iPhone ever shipped. I don't think they did that, maybe a certain few who they had their eye on already.

But then again, we thought nothing was wrong.

Heh, check out the tv show, person of interest.

cocky jeremy · Dec 31, 2013

Rogifan said:
Of course tinfoil hat crowd will claim Apple was allowing it to be installed at Foxconn factories. Too many people in Alex Jones territory these days which is scary.

Exactly how many times do these "tin foil hat" people have to be correct before the idiots wake up to how corrupt our government is?

mazz0 · Dec 31, 2013

MyopicPaideia said:
Ha ha ha - In a way, yes. If this happened the confidence in money that only existed in a digital form would be non-existent, and become so worthless that the money supply in the world would quite literally shrink and collapse in on itself at such a rate that an implosion would be a good description.

Hmm, I'm just not sure that an abstract concept like an economy can literally implode. Hmm... Can't make my mind up.

On a related note, if currency lost all value, would our sexy expensive Apple hardware be a decent commodity? Not very divisible I suppose, I wouldn't want to have to buy so much bacon in one go to be worth the total value of my iPad.

karboN.6 · Dec 31, 2013

MacRumors said:
[url=http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogodarkd.png]Image[/url]

The U.S. National Security Agency could retrieve a vast array of data from compromised iPhones according to an NSA document from 2008 leaked by German magazine Der Spiegel and security researcher Jacob Appelbaum. (via Forbes)

According to the report, the NSA could install special software onto iPhones as part of a program called DROPOUTJEEP, that provides significant access to user data and other relevant information.

Image
The NSA in 2008 claimed a 100 percent success rate in installing the software on phones it had physical access to, and it's possible that the spy agency has improved its software so it can be installed remotely or via some sort of social engineering, something that was specifically mentioned in the documents. It's also possible that Apple has closed the security holes the NSA was using, making it more difficult to compromise iOS devices in this manner.

A separate report says that American spy agencies have intercepted shipping packages -- something the NSA calls method interdiction -- containing new electronic devices destined for specific targets, installed special spy software on those devices, and then sent them on their way. One report calls the shipping disruptions some of the "most productive operations" conducted by the NSA.

Appelbaum said in a talk at the Chaos Communication Congress this weekend that he believes Apple assisted the NSA in its spying efforts though he cannot prove it and he hopes Apple will clarify what assistance they do or do not give the NSA. In addition, the NSA has targeted and cracked a number of different smartphones including those running the Android and BlackBerry operating systems.

The relevant portion of his talk begins at 44:30 in the below video.

YouTube: video
Earlier in December, Apple CEO Tim Cook and more than a dozen other tech executives met with President Obama to discuss NSA surveillance tactics, following an open letter that Apple and seven other technology companies sent to the President and Congress asking the Government to reform its surveillance tactics.

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the comment thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All MacRumors forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: NSA Was Able to Capture Live Data From Compromised iPhones in 2008, Including Live Camera, GPS, and More

This is crazy.

trrosen · Dec 31, 2013

we have a weiner

and the winner for most ridiculous amount of verbiage used to say 'root kit' is...

fourthtunz · Dec 31, 2013

scoobydoo99 said:
really? It's called the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. and everyone should be worried that the American police state run amok violates it with impunity.

The American people have been softened up by a barrage of cop shows,
propaganda that all these cops and security measures are needed
and a good thing to protect us from the bogeyman.

Most of this is to protect the aristocracy from us.
Being policeman of the world helps the MIC but does nothing to
keep us "safe".
Does no good to worry about it though, not enough aware folks to change
anything right now.

macduke · Dec 31, 2013

scoobydoo99 said:
Refreshing to see a comment from someone who "gets it". Unfortunately, most Americans don't, and thus are doomed to squander this grand experiment in freedom that our forefathers so carefully crafted. It's too bad, but it's inevitable.

Glad to know there are others out there who understand what's really going on here. I don't yet think that it's inevitable (Snowden has been opening many people's eyes, including some in my own family who always believed 100% everything the government told them), but we're getting really close to a point of no return. Once you give up a certain percentage of freedom they have you and there is nothing you can dooutside of revolutionto get that back. Hopefully we can do it peaceably. Even though people often do bad things with guns, I'm afraid that may be the only thing holding back a total takeover. Taking away firearms completely will probably be the final straw. And no everyone, I'm not a gun nut. I've never even shot a gun except for a pump-action BB. I'm a city boy who does graphic, web and app design for a living. But I'm starting to think that maybe I should take some classes just in case I get called up to protect our freedom. It doesn't hurt anything to learn, and God willing it won't come to that. Best to be prepared is my motto, especially since I'm about to become a father for the first time.

alent1234 · Dec 31, 2013

cocky jeremy said:
Exactly how many times do these "tin foil hat" people have to be correct before the idiots wake up to how corrupt our government is?

in the 80's the NSA was sucking up everyone's phone calls out of the air via the microwave transmissions. in the 90's they were spying on computer users by monitoring the energy from their CRT monitors. in the army the rule was that all monitors that processed classified info had to face away from windows.

the tin foil hat crowd that think the NSA cares about their porn habit or their useless lives are idiots

Eraserhead · Dec 31, 2013

alent1234 said:
in the 80's the NSA was sucking up everyone's phone calls out of the air via the microwave transmissions. in the 90's they were spying on computer users by monitoring the energy from their CRT monitors. in the army the rule was that all monitors that processed classified info had to face away from windows.

the tin foil hat crowd that think the NSA cares about their porn habit or their useless lives are idiots

If they decide you are a threat then they will start caring. Goodbye protest movements.

If the people have no voice to protest we may as well live in China.

Fishrrman · Dec 31, 2013

scooby writes:
[[ It's called the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. and everyone should be worried that the American police state run amok violates it with impunity.]]

Good on ya. It took around 30 posts before someone even mentioned the Fourth Amendment.

But the Fourth, by itself, is no longer "enough". The Founders -- though well-versed in "government intrusion" into their lives, courtesy of King George -- could never have dreamed of the instrumentalities that can today be used to intrude and spy on ordinary citizens.

You may not be old enough to recall the Congressional hearings of Judge Robert Bork, but I am. At one point during those hearings, Judge Bork was asked about the Constitution and individual privacy. He responded -- correctly -- that there was no explicit right of individual "privacy" -in- the Constitution. And he was raked across the coals for stating as much.

Well, told you that to tell you this:
Perhaps it's time to amend the Constitution to further enumerate a "right to privacy".

It should read as thus:
====================
Citizens protected by this Constitution possess an inalienable right to privacy in their persons, business, and homes, and while they are in public.

It shall be a violation of this Constitution for the United States or for the several States to violate or invade the individual privacy of citizens by use of physical, mechanical, or electronic means or by the use of devices on land, on water, below the ground, or from the air.

This protection shall extend to all lawful communications and acts by an individual citizen or between two or more citizens, including content that is spoken, written, or electronically transmitted. It shall extend to citizens regardless of their location, whether in private or in public.

The only exceptions will be as governed by the Fourth Amendment of this Constitution.
====================

Four short paragraphs that anyone can understand.

Perhaps you'll claim that this isn't needed, that "the Fourth Amendment is enough".
Very well. But how are things working out for us right now?

I believe the Fourth needs to have "new strength" breathed into it, with a Constitutionally-defined "right to privacy". It's time to spell it out, in words that can no longer be denied by those in power.

alent1234 · Dec 31, 2013

Eraserhead said:
If they decide you are a threat then they will start caring. Goodbye protest movements.

If the people have no voice to protest we may as well live in China.

NSA does signal interception. they have no law enforcement capability. they can't even share most of their data with the FBI

----------

Fishrrman said:
scooby writes:
[[ It's called the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. and everyone should be worried that the American police state run amok violates it with impunity.]]

Good on ya. It took around 30 posts before someone even mentioned the Fourth Amendment.

But the Fourth, by itself, is no longer "enough". The Founders -- though well-versed in "government intrusion" into their lives, courtesy of King George -- could never have dreamed of the instrumentalities that can today be used to intrude and spy on ordinary citizens.

You may not be old enough to recall the Congressional hearings of Judge Robert Bork, but I am. At one point during those hearings, Judge Bork was asked about the Constitution and individual privacy. He responded -- correctly -- that there was no explicit right of individual "privacy" -in- the Constitution. And he was raked across the coals for stating as much.

Well, told you that to tell you this:
Perhaps it's time to amend the Constitution to further enumerate a "right to privacy".

It should read as thus:
====================
Citizens protected by this Constitution possess an inalienable right to privacy in their persons, business, and homes, and while they are in public.

It shall be a violation of this Constitution for the United States or for the several States to violate or invade the individual privacy of citizens by use of physical, mechanical, or electronic means or by the use of devices on land, on water, below the ground, or from the air.

This protection shall extend to all lawful communications and acts by an individual citizen or between two or more citizens, including content that is spoken, written, or electronically transmitted. It shall extend to citizens regardless of their location, whether in private or in public.

The only exceptions will be as governed by the Fourth Amendment of this Constitution.
====================

Four short paragraphs that anyone can understand.

Perhaps you'll claim that this isn't needed, that "the Fourth Amendment is enough".
Very well. But how are things working out for us right now?

I believe the Fourth needs to have "new strength" breathed into it, with a Constitutionally-defined "right to privacy". It's time to spell it out, in words that can no longer be denied by those in power.

those same founders also passed the alien and sedition act of 1798 and lots of them owned slaves and thought that only property owners should vote.

Eraserhead · Dec 31, 2013

alent1234 said:
NSA does signal interception. they have no law enforcement capability. they can't even share most of their data with the FBI

A) I'm sure they do share data with the FBI. B) they can discredit people - no need to explicitly arrest them.

alent1234 · Dec 31, 2013

Eraserhead said:
A) I'm sure they do share data with the FBI. B) they can discredit people - no need to explicitly arrest them.

the NSA reports to 2 congressional committees who's members change on a regular basis. it would be pretty hard to keep it secret of them feeding private data to the press

flat five · Dec 31, 2013

gnasher729 said:
What's wrong with having a stripper girlfriend?

[offtopic]

nothing really.. other than in my experience (2), they generally lean towards the sociopath side of things

[/offtopic]

darkplanets · Dec 31, 2013

alent1234 said:
the NSA reports to 2 congressional committees who's members change on a regular basis. it would be pretty hard to keep it secret of them feeding private data to the press

You so sure about that? Last I checked, congress was more or less in the dark when it came to a lot of the aspects revealed by the Snowden leaks. Furthermore, what's to say they can't simply misreport what's actually going on? They only give information on a voluntary basis, and being in "contempt of congress" is simply verbiage. The FISA court rubber-stamped them to collect almost any data, even of US citizens, in "good faith." What's to say that data doesn't contain details of those in congress -- incidents that would threaten their reelection? It creates a very vulnerable relationship where the NSA could more or less do as they please.

Again, these aren't per se accusations of current behavior, since we really have no idea, but they're suggestive of future misuses that are bound to happen in time.

The only one who actually knows what the NSA is up to is themselves.

Eraserhead · Dec 31, 2013

alent1234 said:
the NSA reports to 2 congressional committees who's members change on a regular basis. it would be pretty hard to keep it secret of them feeding private data to the press

So how exactly are any of Snowden's relevaltions news? I mean the press should have had all this leaked to them by congress years ago...

tdream · Dec 31, 2013

JAT said:
I've never received an Apple product shrinkwrapped, only taped. Tape is impossible to remove from cardboard without me seeing that it has been done. So, they would have to have entire re-packaging systems, with new "Apple" boxes, to do this.

I've hardly ever received any product shrinkwrapped. That is mainly used on a pallet of items, so they don't fall off the pallet, not on an individual item which is all that is sent to my house. And products I have received with this also have other packaging that would have to be opened/replaced. Shrinkwrap is not in question.
And I gotta say, it's still easier to think that Apple's software and design is imperfect than they have been working with governments to check my messages.

Because the NSA would be foiled by tape? Listen to yourself.

alent1234 · Dec 31, 2013

Eraserhead said:
So how exactly are any of Snowden's relevaltions news? I mean the press should have had all this leaked to them by congress years ago...

there was a book written over a decade ago how the NSA tapped the under sea fiber cables in the 90's to collect data

tdream · Dec 31, 2013

gnasher729 said:
As usual, careful reading is required. Nothing in the article says that iOS devices can be compromised in that way.

The document is dated 10th January 2008. It's not hard to fathom that things may have progressed since then.

NSA Was Able to Capture Live Data From Compromised iPhones in 2008, Including Live Camera, GPS, and More

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