OSX vs Bootcamp for games

antonis · Jan 14, 2014

Having to reboot to Windows is a hassle for most Mac users, not because of the time needed for the reboot. When in Windows, you cannot do anything else from your daily workflow in the background, or jump in and out of the game you're playing, or turn it in windowed mode to do another task, etc etc.

saturnotaku · Jan 14, 2014

antonis said:
When in Windows, you cannot do anything else from your daily workflow in the background

Not my daily workflow, but I don't feel a compulsion to check my e-mail, word process, or crunch numbers on a spreadsheet when I'm gaming. Work time is for work. Game time is separate.

madeirabhoy · Jan 14, 2014

antonis said:
Having to reboot to Windows is a hassle for most Mac users, not because of the time needed for the reboot. When in Windows, you cannot do anything else from your daily workflow in the background, or jump in and out of the game you're playing, or turn it in windowed mode to do another task, etc etc.

thats true, and has to be weighed up. thats why i tend to play bootcamped games when i know ive got an hour or two to spare.

also, my wii streams from my mac, and my plex account on my ipad does too, so if im streaming anything i stay out of bootcamp. probably with a bit of work i could set things so this didnt matter but....

antonis · Jan 14, 2014

saturnotaku said:
Not my daily workflow, but I don't feel a compulsion to check my e-mail, word process, or crunch numbers on a spreadsheet when I'm gaming. Work time is for work. Game time is separate.

To each his own of course, but this is not the 100% of the cases, that's the point. For instance, I might have to check my mail or remember something that need to check or whatever. I'm not talking about work (daily workflow doesn't mean work) but more of a casual daily usage; and I don't want to do that in Windows otherwise why get a Mac.

Especially with the SSDs nowadays, the disk space is usually less than the common hard disks. So, splitting the disk is also an issue. Among other issues as well, when running Windows. Therefore it's not strange for Mac owners to consider a hassle to keep bootcamp partitions.

kelub · Jan 14, 2014

When I first converted to OSX, I tried desperately to do everything out of OSX, including gaming. I ended up with a schizo situation: I'd have a few games installed in OSX, but a few that couldn't be and needed Windows, so whichever game I was in the mood to play I'd have to discern which OS it was on. It was around the time that Starcraft 2 came out that I did come to realize the performance in Windows was just better. I hated to admit it, but it was. Where I could set the graphics to "medium" and still have some lag in OSX, I could go to "high" with no framerate issues in Windows. I'm not a FPS purist, but if the option is available to me to get the better performance, I'll take it.

I finally decided to just make a clean break and to do all gaming in Windows. The "Windows sucks it requires so much maintenance" is hyperbole. Windows 7 (or even 8/8.1, I'm running it in boot camp now) runs amazing. The Boot camp software that comes with the mac will give you gesture support and a whole host of Mac-ish "feel" to the experience as well. Use Windows Security Essentials in Windows 7, or nothing in 8 (it's built-in) and your a/v is taken care of. Yeah sometimes it needs updates. Guess what: so does OSX! So... that's not a big deal.

Re: workflow, I get that. I do all of my photography, video editing, home media server management, and just general computing out of OSX, so when I'm in Windows I do feel a bit handicapped... but it's not that big of a deal. Both have web browsers that can handle pretty much any of my web needs, both can access each other's files, etc. It's *not that big of a deal.* Plus, I can focus my Windows install primarily on gaming and just hoard the partition full of games w/o worrying about consuming space I might later want/need for photography or videos or documents or whatever.

Besides, it's much simpler to get from Windows to OSX (right-click the task bar "Boot Camp" icon and select "Restart in OSX") than it is to go from OSX to Windows (System Preferences -> Startup Disk -> Reboot in Windows). Using the option key is always an option, but just keep in mind that if you need to reboot, if you aren't diligent with using it, you'll find yourself back in the other OS since it's still set to be the default.

If you only play a few games, and those games are available in OSX, and their performance is acceptable/ideal for your use, then by all means, stay in OSX. But if you want to play Windows-only titles, and/or you want to maximize the performance potential of those titles, AND you have access to a Windows license, then there's certainly no shame in dual booting. As previously stated, the beauty of owning a Mac is that you can have the best of both worlds, instead of being tied down to just one in the PC realm.

Wardenski · Jan 14, 2014

It would be great if OSX had the better support for games. I would really like to see how say Crysis would play if written from the ground up for OSX...

...but this is not reality. SteamOS could catalyze more interest in OpenCL/GL, perhaps, but as far as I am concerned though, OSX (for me) gaming wise, is dead.

Some people think the new Mac Pro will change things. I disagree, the hard cold fact is that (old) Mac Pros make up about 2 % of all Macs on steam.

My Mac (old Mac Pro) has been a great gaming machine but that's only because I can put standard PC parts in it and I can run Windows natively.

I understand some reasoning being not rebooting into Windows but between OSX and Windows the latter is the premium gaming experience. One should get their monies worth.

Workflow? I struggle to switch between Skyrim and real life!

imacken · Jan 15, 2014

saturnotaku said:
Not my daily workflow, but I don't feel a compulsion to check my e-mail, word process, or crunch numbers on a spreadsheet when I'm gaming. Work time is for work. Game time is separate.

Don't know why you keep posting this kind of thing like in other similar threads. Why can't you accept that people work in different ways?
I would imagine that most people spend time on their computers in a very fragmented way - partly work and partly play. Jumping in and out of various tasks throughout the day.
You seem to organise your time so that you have large time slots available exclusively for work or games. That works for you, but it is unlikely to suit most people's day. After all, that is why we use multi-tasking computers rather than games consoles, i.e. to allow us the flexibility to undertake all kinds of tasks in the most efficient way.
Bootcamp works for you, and that's great, but don't expect everyone to agree. Personally, I will avoid BC at all costs. Each to his own.

----------

Wardenski said:
SteamOS could catalyze more interest in OpenCL/GL, perhaps, but as far as I am concerned though, OSX (for me) gaming wise, is dead.

Tell that to Feral and Aspyr!
Gaming on the Mac has never been healthier with releases such as Deus Ex HR, Bioshock Infinite, XCOM Enemy Unknown, Batman Arkham City, Witcher 2, F1 2012, Metro Last Light, Amnesia Machine for Pigs, Max Payne 3, Walking Dead 2, etc. etc.
Many other releases set for this year including Tomb Raider 2013, and F1 2013 from Feral.
Skyrim works perfectly in a wrapper, and a lot of games work well in Parallels. I recently played through (the excellent) Dishonored in Parallels @ 2560x1440 and very smooth it was too.
Gaming on OS X dead? I don't think so.

Wardenski · Jan 15, 2014

I play games on a Mac, just not OSX.

imacken · Jan 15, 2014

Wardenski said:
I play games on a Mac, just not OSX.

Ha ha! I've edited the post.

antonis · Jan 15, 2014

imacken said:
Tell that to Feral and Aspyr!
Gaming on the Mac has never been healthier with releases such as Deus Ex HR, Bioshock Infinite, XCOM Enemy Unknown, Batman Arkham City, Witcher 2, F1 2012, Metro Last Light, Amnesia Machine for Pigs, Max Payne 3, Walking Dead 2, etc. etc.
Many other releases set for this year including Tomb Raider 2013, and F1 2013 from Feral.
Skyrim works perfectly in a wrapper, and a lot of games work well in Parallels. I recently played through (the excellent) Dishonored in Parallels @ 2560x1440 and very smooth it was too.
Gaming on OS X dead? I don't think so.

Indeed. And not to mention Blizzard titles as well, that they always get released along with PC versions. The WoW client is in fact better on the OS X side (e.g. built-in video capturing).

saturnotaku · Jan 15, 2014

imacken said:
Don't know why you keep posting this kind of thing like in other similar threads.

I could ask you the very same question.

Look, I prefer to game in OS X whenever possible. I've re-purchased several titles I already own on Windows (Arkham Asylum, CoD: Black Ops, Prey, and Doom 3 among others) to play them on OS X and support the developers who create the ports. I don't mind lowering resolution and some detail settings to make a game smoother and more playable.

I've experimented plenty with Crossover and other wrappers, and with the amount of time I've spent fiddling to get some titles in a remotely playable state, I could have booted in and out of Windows and played the same games with zero hassle dozens of times over.

If virtualization works for you, great, but you absolutely cannot argue that it is the most optimal way to experience games on a Mac.

imacken · Jan 15, 2014

saturnotaku said:
I could ask you the very same question.

Look, I prefer to game in OS X whenever possible. I've re-purchased several titles I already own on Windows (Arkham Asylum, CoD: Black Ops, Prey, and Doom 3 among others) to play them on OS X and support the developers who create the ports. I don't mind lowering resolution and some detail settings to make a game smoother and more playable.

I've experimented plenty with Crossover and other wrappers, and with the amount of time I've spent fiddling to get some titles in a remotely playable state, I could have booted in and out of Windows and played the same games with zero hassle dozens of times over.

If virtualization works for you, great, but you absolutely cannot argue that it is the most optimal way to experience games on a Mac.

Here we go again. I post to put forward another point of view. You always seem to post suggesting that your way is the only way.
I try to play all my games in native Mac versions, or wrappers that work well - e.g. Skyrim and Tomb Raider 2013. Both run fine @2560x1440.
I have never said that Parallels is the optimal way to experience games on a Mac, but what I have said, is that it is a solution for those who are not FPS obsessed - is there really a practical difference between 80fps and 60fps? I know you will say yes, but I think for most people the answer is probably that it is an acceptable compromise compared to Bootcamp for the reasons I have spelled out before.
Your previous posts suggest that your choices are determined by FPS in games. I just try to put forward a case for the alternative for those who use their computers in a more varied way than devoting hours to solely playing games. I am certainly not saying that my way is right for you or others who have a similar approach, but it is another point of view.
But, as I said, each to his own.

Huntn · Jan 15, 2014

kelub said:
When I first converted to OSX, I tried desperately to do everything out of OSX, including gaming. I ended up with a schizo situation: I'd have a few games installed in OSX, but a few that couldn't be and needed Windows, so whichever game I was in the mood to play I'd have to discern which OS it was on. It was around the time that Starcraft 2 came out that I did come to realize the performance in Windows was just better. I hated to admit it, but it was. Where I could set the graphics to "medium" and still have some lag in OSX, I could go to "high" with no framerate issues in Windows. I'm not a FPS purist, but if the option is available to me to get the better performance, I'll take it.

I finally decided to just make a clean break and to do all gaming in Windows. The "Windows sucks it requires so much maintenance" is hyperbole. Windows 7 (or even 8/8.1, I'm running it in boot camp now) runs amazing. The Boot camp software that comes with the mac will give you gesture support and a whole host of Mac-ish "feel" to the experience as well. Use Windows Security Essentials in Windows 7, or nothing in 8 (it's built-in) and your a/v is taken care of. Yeah sometimes it needs updates. Guess what: so does OSX! So... that's not a big deal.

Re: workflow, I get that. I do all of my photography, video editing, home media server management, and just general computing out of OSX, so when I'm in Windows I do feel a bit handicapped... but it's not that big of a deal. Both have web browsers that can handle pretty much any of my web needs, both can access each other's files, etc. It's *not that big of a deal.* Plus, I can focus my Windows install primarily on gaming and just hoard the partition full of games w/o worrying about consuming space I might later want/need for photography or videos or documents or whatever.

Besides, it's much simpler to get from Windows to OSX (right-click the task bar "Boot Camp" icon and select "Restart in OSX") than it is to go from OSX to Windows (System Preferences -> Startup Disk -> Reboot in Windows). Using the option key is always an option, but just keep in mind that if you need to reboot, if you aren't diligent with using it, you'll find yourself back in the other OS since it's still set to be the default.

If you only play a few games, and those games are available in OSX, and their performance is acceptable/ideal for your use, then by all means, stay in OSX. But if you want to play Windows-only titles, and/or you want to maximize the performance potential of those titles, AND you have access to a Windows license, then there's certainly no shame in dual booting. As previously stated, the beauty of owning a Mac is that you can have the best of both worlds, instead of being tied down to just one in the PC realm.

I'm similar in how I approach MacOS vs Windows, but have not made a clean break from Mac gaming. I take it on a case by case basis. Played WoW on my Mac for years although I had a game capable PC at the time. Although now that I have built a "gaming PC", with much better performance, roughly twice the frames of my MBP, and due to the delays for Mac ports to appear, most likely I'll be playing the PC version. Right now I'm playing two games on my Mac, Minecraft and World of Tanks (the latter when I'm traveling and can get a decent connection).

However, I agree that for portable computing if the MacOS is important to you as it is to me, the Mac laptop is a unique tool which gives me the best of both worlds.

And addressing the comment that Windows = extra work... it does! Third party programs are required to keep it going and every copy of Windows (Win95-Win7) I've owned eventually requires a clean install. There is something about the MacOS that gives me comfort that I know it's not sitting there waiting to screw me over.

saturnotaku · Jan 15, 2014

Huntn said:
However, I agree that for portable computing if the MacOS is important to you as it is to me, the Mac laptop is a unique tool which gives me the best of both worlds.

A million times this.

At first, I needed a Mac for my job. With that no longer being the case, I'm still impressed by how capable even my 2011 model is for gaming and everything else. Admittedly my standards are not nearly as high as they once were (back in the day I was running SLI and Crossfire desktops) but for what I need, it still more than gets the job done.

madeirabhoy · Jan 15, 2014

imacken said:
Don't know why you keep posting this kind of thing like in other similar threads. Why can't you accept that people work in different ways?
I would imagine that most people spend time on their computers in a very fragmented way - partly work and partly play. Jumping in and out of various tasks throughout the day.
You seem to organise your time so that you have large time slots available exclusively for work or games. That works for you, but it is unlikely to suit most people's day. After all, that is why we use multi-tasking computers rather than games consoles, i.e. to allow us the flexibility to undertake all kinds of tasks in the most efficient way.
Bootcamp works for you, and that's great, but don't expect everyone to agree. Personally, I will avoid BC at all costs. Each to his own.

----------

Tell that to Feral and Aspyr!
Gaming on the Mac has never been healthier with releases such as Deus Ex HR, Bioshock Infinite, XCOM Enemy Unknown, Batman Arkham City, Witcher 2, F1 2012, Metro Last Light, Amnesia Machine for Pigs, Max Payne 3, Walking Dead 2, etc. etc.
Many other releases set for this year including Tomb Raider 2013, and F1 2013 from Feral.Skyrim works perfectly in a wrapper, and a lot of games work well in Parallels. I recently played through (the excellent) Dishonored in Parallels @ 2560x1440 and very smooth it was too.
Gaming on OS X dead? I don't think so.

completely agree. feral seem more invigorated than ever, plus so many of the games they do being steamplay means even games ive already bought can be played on mac, and the quality is getting much closer, so like you, if i have to drop one resolution level and avoid restarting, i will. and id far rather reward a mac publisher.

but for other games its not possible.

how would i use a wrapper incidentally, for skyrim? never tried using wrappers.

saturnotaku · Jan 15, 2014

madeirabhoy said:
completely agree. feral seem more invigorated than ever, plus so many of the games they do being steamplay means even games ive already bought can be played on mac, and the quality is getting much closer, so like you, if i have to drop one resolution level and avoid restarting, i will. and id far rather reward a mac publisher.

Thing is, though, if you've bought and played a game on Windows, then it later comes out for Mac via Steamplay, the porting company won't see a dime of that revenue. So you're not actually supporting the Mac publisher unless you wait and buy the game from within OS X or buy it from Windows and within a week or two spend the majority of your playing time on OS X.

It would be nice if there were some kind of revenue sharing agreement among Valve, the Windows developers and publishers, and Mac developers. Perhaps a percentage could be given to Feral and Aspyr based on the Steam hardware surveys. It would only be a few percentage points, but certainly better than nothing.

imacken · Jan 15, 2014

madeirabhoy said:
how would i use a wrapper incidentally, for skyrim? never tried using wrappers.

Have a look at the Porting Team site http://portingteam.com/files/ and Paul the Tall http://paulthetall.com/mac-games-ports/
The wrappers can be hit and miss, but I have found the ones that wrap Steam and allow access to my library, usually work quite well.

gregorsamsa · Jan 15, 2014

kelub said:
When I first converted to OSX, I tried desperately to do everything out of OSX, including gaming. I ended up with a schizo situation: I'd have a few games installed in OSX, but a few that couldn't be and needed Windows, so whichever game I was in the mood to play I'd have to discern which OS it was on. It was around the time that Starcraft 2 came out that I did come to realize the performance in Windows was just better. I hated to admit it, but it was. Where I could set the graphics to "medium" and still have some lag in OSX, I could go to "high" with no framerate issues in Windows. I'm not a FPS purist, but if the option is available to me to get the better performance, I'll take it.

I finally decided to just make a clean break and to do all gaming in Windows. The "Windows sucks it requires so much maintenance" is hyperbole. Windows 7 (or even 8/8.1, I'm running it in boot camp now) runs amazing. The Boot camp software that comes with the mac will give you gesture support and a whole host of Mac-ish "feel" to the experience as well. Use Windows Security Essentials in Windows 7, or nothing in 8 (it's built-in) and your a/v is taken care of. Yeah sometimes it needs updates. Guess what: so does OSX! So... that's not a big deal.

Re: workflow, I get that. I do all of my photography, video editing, home media server management, and just general computing out of OSX, so when I'm in Windows I do feel a bit handicapped... but it's not that big of a deal. Both have web browsers that can handle pretty much any of my web needs, both can access each other's files, etc. It's *not that big of a deal.* Plus, I can focus my Windows install primarily on gaming and just hoard the partition full of games w/o worrying about consuming space I might later want/need for photography or videos or documents or whatever.

Besides, it's much simpler to get from Windows to OSX (right-click the task bar "Boot Camp" icon and select "Restart in OSX") than it is to go from OSX to Windows (System Preferences -> Startup Disk -> Reboot in Windows). Using the option key is always an option, but just keep in mind that if you need to reboot, if you aren't diligent with using it, you'll find yourself back in the other OS since it's still set to be the default.

If you only play a few games, and those games are available in OSX, and their performance is acceptable/ideal for your use, then by all means, stay in OSX. But if you want to play Windows-only titles, and/or you want to maximize the performance potential of those titles, AND you have access to a Windows license, then there's certainly no shame in dual booting. As previously stated, the beauty of owning a Mac is that you can have the best of both worlds, instead of being tied down to just one in the PC realm.

I did the same partly after ending up with too many Mac-native PPC classics unplayable on my (then) new Lion Mac. I was so annoyed with Apple, I knew I had to do something to ensure it never happened again.

Now I use my Mac for serious work, my PC mostly for gaming. Fortunately, Windows 8 also has great backward-compatibility for those older gaming classics.

Huntn · Jan 15, 2014

saturnotaku said:
Thing is, though, if you've bought and played a game on Windows, then it later comes out for Mac via Steamplay, the porting company won't see a dime of that revenue. So you're not actually supporting the Mac publisher unless you wait and buy the game from within OS X or buy it from Windows and within a week or two spend the majority of your playing time on OS X.

It would be nice if there were some kind of revenue sharing agreement among Valve, the Windows developers and publishers, and Mac developers. Perhaps a percentage could be given to Feral and Aspyr based on the Steam hardware surveys. It would only be a few percentage points, but certainly better than nothing.

? My impression is that if it came out on Steamplay for Mac, either the company that originally made the game either ported it themselves, or paid to have it ported so the Mac porter got paid.

Is there a specific instance of a company putting out a game on Steam as Mac compatible, but then selling rights to a dedicated Mac porting company who supports their own product? I'd say as soon as it arrives in Steamplay as Mac compatible the boat has sailed. At that point, I don't see someone like Feral buying rights to port it. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

madeirabhoy · Jan 15, 2014

Huntn said:
? My impression is that if it came out on Steamplay for Mac, either the company that originally made the game either ported it themselves, or paid to have it ported so the Mac porter got paid.

Is there a specific instance of a company putting out a game on Steam as Mac compatible, but then selling rights to a dedicated Mac porting company who supports their own product? I'd say as soon as it arrives in Steamplay as Mac compatible the boat has sailed. At that point, I don't see someone like Feral buying rights to port it. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

no, he is right. if feral port a game thats already on steam for pc, they only get money from steam for people who play the mac version in the first month of buying the game. if you only play the mac version in that, they get the whole money, if you install both, its split.

sorry my last post was written badly, i didnt mean that installing mac versions of games id bought ages ago, would get feral the money, i meant that on the one hand it was nice to get mac copies of games i bought ages ago for pc on steam (but know the publisher don't get, but what can i do)and its also nice to buy games for mac knowing feral or aspyr get your money.

OSX vs Bootcamp for games

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