All We Know About Maximizing CPU Related Performance

Tutor · Feb 21, 2014

Thinkcat said:
Hello

I am looking for a medium power workstation for studies and desktop virtualization. Maybe a 6-core or dual 4-core Xeon.

The best motherboard for dual Xeons, since Xeons are the only Intel CPUs that support ECC memory, is the GIGABYTE GA-7PESH3 Dual LGA2011/ Intel C602/ DDR3/ CrossFireX & 4-Way SLI/ SATA3&SAS2&USB3.0/ A&V&2GbE/ EEB Server Motherboard ( http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-7PESH3 ) $599.99. Gigabyte motherboards are the easiest to run multiple OSes.

Thinkcat said:
In the first message of this thread it is said that an X79 chipset will give ECC with OS X. Is there any way to ensure that? Maybe see a log of fixed single bit errors from within the OS?

Check manufacturer specs - Here's two that should fit your requirements, but they, like the rest of the X79s, are single CPU motherboards -
(1) GIGABYTE GA-X79S-UP5-WIFI LGA2011/ Intel C606/ DDR3/ 3-Way CrossFireX&3-Way SLI/ SATA3&USB3.0/A&2GbE/ EATX Motherboard ( http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php...3e0c0e3e7c04&gclid=CNqXpayd3rwCFajm7Aod1UYABw ) $305.99

(2) ASRock X79 Extreme6 LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...57289&ef_id=UnGi9wAABeAD@Wx9:20140221220909:s ) $219.99

Because a Xeon is required for ECC support, ensure that the X79 motherboard for which ECC memory support is listed, also specifically lists as a supported CPU the Xeon that you intend to use.

Thinkcat said:
Now running Asus P8C WS + E3-1245v2 with GT640 graphics and not happy, since the machine will get stuck or crash after a couple of days. With both 10.8.x and 10.9.x. Memory is 4+4 GB ECC.

I'm not an Asus fan at all, not even a tiny bit, and would never again spend 1 cent on any of their motherboards.

Thinkcat said:
I wish someone could point me to a motherboard + CPU combo that would have at least ECC and fully functioning speedstep, and then maybe sleep, shutdown and restart. I am good at following instructions but I'm incapable of figuring out DSDT and such stuff all by myself.

Fully functioning speedstep is just around the corner. I pass the baton to RampageDev. - http://rampagedev.wordpress.com . I know of no one who is his equal for tackling speedstep, sleep, shutdown and restart matters. He's "The Man."

Gav Mack · Feb 21, 2014

RampageMan may be the man about speedstep but I'm looking forward to 'the man' comments on the performance of the Titan Black.

Asus boards non recommendation is a surprise to me but if I ever go hack it will be gigabyte/Quo. AS Rock have probably given me more nightmares over the years than any other brand!

Tutor · Feb 21, 2014

Gav Mack said:
RampageMan may be the man about speedstep but I'm looking forward to 'the man' comments on the performance of the Titan Black.

Asus boards non recommendation is a surprise to me but if I ever go hack it will be gigabyte/Quo. AS Rock have probably given me more nightmares over the years than any other brand!

I've never owned an ASrock and thus have no personal experience with them, but do own two Asus and both are my Nightmares On Motherboard Street.

Eleven of the motherboards in my sig are Gigabyte and they all are troopers. The rest are Supermicro and Tyan, both manufacturers who I also have nothing but enthusiastic praise.

The Titan Black is a pre-overclocked 780 Ti SC ACX, plus 6 gigs of Vram. My 780 Ti SC ACXs can be overclocked in Windows to match the nTitan in performance, but that 6 gigs of Vram and for some specialty tasks other than 3d rendering in Octanerender - that monster double precision (DP) floating point peak, are reasons for some to get a Titan Black. Also running a Titan Black on a MacPro in OS X has its advantages because of the lack of a means to overclock in that environment. However, the real news thief appears to be the GTX 790, which should drop next month, with 4992 CUDA cores. It's mission is to feed copious amounts of dust to the Titan Black and the 780 Ti SC ACX in 3d rendering and I believe that the GTX 790 will carry out that mission with glowing success; but it too will lack the DP advantage and 6 gigs of Vram of the Titan Black.

In terms of CUDA capability, I project that the Titan Black will be about 1.3x-1.4x times faster than a reference design (RD) oTitan - that's the original one. In terms of CUDA capability, I project that the GXT 790 will be 1.6x-1.7x times faster than a RD oTitan. So in terms of CUDA capability, the GTX 790 should be about 1.25x times faster than a Titan Black.

Energybutton · Feb 22, 2014

I replaced my processors today, upgrading from 2.26Ghz to W5590's @ 3.33Ghz. Now I know these W5590's will run hotter due to the 130W TDP but processor 0 seems to be running 10c higher at idle and will raise up to over 80c when under moderate load (playing GTA IV, no work to test it on cause it's the weekend!) while processor 1 will sit at about 65c, is this normal? I never really monitored my temps before so I'm not really sure what the 2.26's ran at.

I know games don't utilize all the cores however there still seems to be a 10c difference in idle temps.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Tutor · Feb 22, 2014

Energybutton said:
I replaced my processors today, upgrading from 2.26Ghz to W5590's @ 3.33Ghz. Now I know these W5590's will run hotter due to the 130W TDP but processor 0 seems to be running 10c higher at idle and will raise up to over 80c when under moderate load (playing GTA IV, no work to test it on cause it's the weekend!) while processor 1 will sit at about 65c, is this normal? I never really monitored my temps before so I'm not really sure what the 2.26's ran at.

I know games don't utilize all the cores however there still seems to be a 10c difference in idle temps.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

If the 5590s are in a MacPro, CPU0 appears to be running a bit too hot and CPU1 appears to be running a little hotter than I'd expect under moderate load. This could be due to thermal paste or cooler seating problems. What brand of paste did you use and how much of it? I recommend Arctic Silver and remember that a little dab will do you - about a small pea size or just enough to cover micro crevices between all of the two metal contact points. If the amount of Arctic Silver is correct, but the coolers aren't seated properly, temps could still rise a bit too high - try reseating them to see if you can get the temps for both into the 55-60 degree range under moderate load. Of course, both could be the culprit.

DJenkins · Feb 23, 2014

Tutor said:
The best motherboard for dual Xeons, since Xeons are the only Intel CPUs that support ECC memory, is the GIGABYTE GA-7PESH3 Dual LGA2011/ Intel C602/ DDR3/ CrossFireX & 4-Way SLI/ SATA3&SAS2&USB3.0/ A&V&2GbE/ EEB Server Motherboard ( http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-7PESH3 ) $599.99. Gigabyte motherboards are the easiest to run multiple OSes.

I've been interested in this board since it was announced but the latest I heard from RampageDev was that the latest versions of OSX have not been successful.

Also I never asked if any of your Tyan/Supermicro Socket 2011 boards run OSX successfully either... I'm sure you've tried Tutor?

Energybutton · Feb 23, 2014

Tutor said:
If the 5590s are in a MacPro, CPU0 appears to be running a bit too hot and CPU1 appears to be running a little hotter than I'd expect under moderate load. This could be due to thermal paste or cooler seating problems. What brand of paste did you use and how much of it? I recommend Arctic Silver and remember that a little dab will do you - about a small pea size or just enough to cover micro crevices between all of the two metal contact points. If the amount of Arctic Silver is correct, but the coolers aren't seated properly, temps could still rise a bit too high - try reseating them to see if you can get the temps for both into the 55-60 degree range under moderate load. Of course, both could be the culprit.

Hi,

Thanks for replying, I use Arctic MX-2 thermal paste cause it's non conductive and in past experience it provides decent temps. I pulled the coolers off both CPU's and switched the sockets the CPU's were in to rule out a faulty processor. I think I may have used a little too much thermal paste last time and I don't think I cranked the cooler's down enough as I was scared I'd break the socket and or CPU. When I reassembled it this morning I used less thermal paste and I cranked the cooler down a little more and rebooted, both processors were idling at mid 30's although idle temps didn't return to mid 30's after gaming, CPU 0 sat at about mid 50's and CPU 1 at mid 40's. Under the same load in GTA IV I was getting between 65-72c on CPU 0 with about 50% load on two cores and about 10% on the other two.

There is an improvement but should I attempt to seat the coolers again?

Gav Mack · Feb 23, 2014

Energybutton said:
Hi,

Thanks for replying, I use Arctic MX-2 thermal paste cause it's non conductive and in past experience it provides decent temps. I pulled the coolers off both CPU's and switched the sockets the CPU's were in to rule out a faulty processor. I think I may have used a little too much thermal paste last time and I don't think I cranked the cooler's down enough as I was scared I'd break the socket and or CPU. When I reassembled it this morning I used less thermal paste and I cranked the cooler down a little more and rebooted, both processors were idling at mid 30's although idle temps didn't return to mid 30's after gaming, CPU 0 sat at about mid 50's and CPU 1 at mid 40's. Under the same load in GTA IV I was getting between 65-72c on CPU 0 with about 50% load on two cores and about 10% on the other two.

There is an improvement but should I attempt to seat the coolers again?

As I seem to do this kind of stuff almost weekly:

Seems about right to me with MX-2, CPU 1 will take most of the load as most games are coded for dual core use for the vast majority of the users out there. Though they like to claim it's better performing than AS-5 and is non-conductive I much prefer the latter, though applying less is a necessity and it takes about a week or two to get the best results. MX-2 I don't think has a breaking in period iirc.. I use the AS Cleaner/Purifier kit and a bit of chrome type polish in between the cleaning purifying stages to tint the top of the CPU and heatsink for better thermal bond. Works great for me on all PC's and the whole Mac range, largest temp drops on the unibody MBP's which run far too hot for my liking, the 2011 models in particular who's lead free solder connections aint great.

Tutor · Feb 23, 2014

DJenkins said:
I've been interested in this board since it was announced but the latest I heard from RampageDev was that the latest versions of OSX have not been successful.

Also I never asked if any of your Tyan/Supermicro Socket 2011 boards run OSX successfully either... I'm sure you've tried Tutor?

On the 4 CPU Supermicro Socket 2011 boards, there's not been success yet. However, on LGA 1366 8-GPU Tyan Servers it's a charm. Since I haven't purchased the GA-7PESH3 yet, I just guessed that it would work, given that it works on other LGA 2011 dual CPU systems and, especially given that historically it has worked best on Gigabyte motherboards in the past, that it'd work on the GA-7PESH3 also. The next OS full release is my litmus test for the stragglers.

I've search RampageDev's site and haven't found any discussion about the GA-7PESH3 other than about it's announcement. What has RampageDev seen as the problem(s) with the GA-7PESH3?

Tutor · Feb 23, 2014

Energybutton said:
Hi,

Thanks for replying, I use Arctic MX-2 thermal paste cause it's non conductive and in past experience it provides decent temps. I pulled the coolers off both CPU's and switched the sockets the CPU's were in to rule out a faulty processor. I think I may have used a little too much thermal paste last time and I don't think I cranked the cooler's down enough as I was scared I'd break the socket and or CPU. When I reassembled it this morning I used less thermal paste and I cranked the cooler down a little more and rebooted, both processors were idling at mid 30's although idle temps didn't return to mid 30's after gaming, CPU 0 sat at about mid 50's and CPU 1 at mid 40's. Under the same load in GTA IV I was getting between 65-72c on CPU 0 with about 50% load on two cores and about 10% on the other two.

There is an improvement but should I attempt to seat the coolers again?

Like Gav Mac, I too use AS5, but only from the force of habit. Also, keep in mind that there comes a point in time and of diminishing returns when the risk of damaging the CPU socket from further reseating outweighs any small diminution in heat. So you should be very judicious and careful. I'd reseat again only if I were switching to use of AS5.

Gav Mack · Feb 23, 2014

Tutor said:
Like Gav Mac, I too use AS5, but only from the force of habit. Also, keep in mind that there comes a point in time and of diminishing returns when the risk of damaging the CPU socket from further reseating outweighs any small diminution in heat. So you should be very judicious and careful. I'd reseat again only if I were switching to use of AS5.

I wonder what your opinion is of Apple's instructions of applying thermal paste and the paste they use - when I look at the hardware manuals of all their kit it all reads like extremely bad advice regarding the application - Squirt from this mark to the next out of the syringe. So bad in fact that I know the competent engineers I am friends with in the local repair centre think so too, ignore Apple's instructions and use AS5 applied the correct way. This factory paste they use is nearly always massively over applied and dries out into dust. Having torn down a lot of Apple kit after the AppleCare has run out what I find they require a tint and re-paste as a rule, else the logic boards won't last very long requiring an expensive logic board swap in the future. Having said that I think it's not just an Apple issue, but with Apple having the most tight thermal tolerances in their whole range bar the cheesegraters it's a glaring oversight from a company that really shouldn't be applying cheap substandard thermal materials wrong for so long!

Tutor · Feb 23, 2014

Gav Mack said:
I wonder what your opinion is of Apple's instructions of applying thermal paste and the paste they use - when I look at the hardware manuals of all their kit it all reads like extremely bad advice regarding the application - Squirt from this mark to the next out of the syringe. So bad in fact that I know the competent engineers I am friends with in the local repair centre think so too, ignore Apple's instructions and use AS5 applied the correct way. This factory paste they use is nearly always massively over applied and dries out into dust. Having torn down a lot of Apple kit after the AppleCare has run out what I find they require a tint and re-paste as a rule, else the logic boards won't last very long requiring an expensive logic board swap in the future. Having said that I think it's not just an Apple issue, but with Apple having the most tight thermal tolerances in their whole range bar the cheesegraters it's a glaring oversight from a company that really shouldn't be applying cheap substandard thermal materials wrong for so long!

I learned it from building clocktweaked systems and from others who did and do the same: thin application of AS5 is what we mainly use. I've never strayed from that even when it comes to my MacPros. So I won't be doing it according to Apple's instructions or using what they recommend.

Energybutton · Feb 23, 2014

Thanks for the help guys.

The temps seem to be more of a problem in Windows so I've downloaded a program which lets you set custom fan profiles and it seems to be working pretty well but I'll still purchase some AS5 and see how that goes.

Just out of interest what processors are you guys running in your Mac Pro's and what temps do they run at?

Tutor · Feb 23, 2014

Energybutton said:
Thanks for the help guys.

The temps seem to be more of a problem in Windows so I've downloaded a program which lets you set custom fan profiles and it seems to be working pretty well but I'll still purchase some AS5 and see how that goes.

Just out of interest what processors are you guys running in your Mac Pro's and what temps do they run at?

My most stressed MacPro is my MacPro4,1 upgraded to a MacPro5,1. It has dual 5680Ws and runs at mid30s C @ idle and between 55-65 C when doing long 3d renders.

DJenkins · Feb 23, 2014

Tutor said:
I've search RampageDev's site and haven't found any discussion about the GA-7PESH3 other than about it's announcement. What has RampageDev seen as the problem(s) with the GA-7PESH3?

He didn't go into detail but it's enough for me to hold off buying one at risk of having it for Windows only purposes for now...

http://rampagedev.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/new-testing/comment-page-1/#comment-10244

riggles · Feb 23, 2014

Tutor said:
My most stressed MacPro is my MacPro4,1 upgraded to a MacPro5,1. It has dual 5680Ws and runs at mid30s C @ idle and between 55-65 C when doing long 3d renders.

Hmm. My 5,1 is direct from Apple refurbished (no CPU upgrades) and it idles at about 40C and gets up to 70-75C when doing brute force GI renders in MODO.

Tutor · Feb 23, 2014

riggles said:
Hmm. My 5,1 is direct from Apple refurbished (no CPU upgrades) and it idles at about 40C and gets up to 70-75C when doing brute force GI renders in MODO.

Mine was refurbished too. Maybe time for a thin layer of Arctic Silver 5.

Tutor · Feb 23, 2014

DJenkins said:
He didn't go into detail but it's enough for me to hold off buying one at risk of having it for Windows only purposes for now...

http://rampagedev.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/new-testing/comment-page-1/#comment-10244

It appears that the issues with that motherboard ran further than just getting another OS to work in it because RampageDev also said: "Its really buggy. We RMAed the board to GB because were were having a good amount of hardware issues. SR-X is still the king in stability and flexibility." The sad part is that neither the EVGA SR-X or the EVGA SR-2 seem to be in production any longer. If the bugs in the GA-7PESH3 that RampageDev found, are present in that whole product line, then that means that Windows users are similarly limited to fewer stable 2xCPU build options other than those provided by the standard suppliers of workstations such as, but not limited to, Supermicro.

DJenkins · Feb 24, 2014

Yeh looks like it. I'll probably line up a discussion with Rampage when it comes time for me to get a new rig going here at work... not right now though but in next few months I think

jasonvp · Feb 25, 2014

Unlike our dear friend Tutor, I've had nothing but problems with the Gigabyte boards I've purchased, and nothing but good luck with the Asus ones. Based on the documentation out there, it does seem that Gigabyte makes a better Hack-ready motherboard. But getting on that works out of the box may be a crap shoot.

Gav Mack · Feb 25, 2014

jasonvp said:
Unlike our dear friend Tutor, I've had nothing but problems with the Gigabyte boards I've purchased, and nothing but good luck with the Asus ones. Based on the documentation out there, it does seem that Gigabyte makes a better Hack-ready motherboard. But getting on that works out of the box may be a crap shoot.

There is one Gigabyte based board that is the most ridiculously easy hack board I've done by a mile:

http://quocomputer.com/shop/z77mx-quo-aos/

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Z77MX-QUO-AOS

After setting up the bios exactly as per instructions you allegedly download and flash some EFI code created by users that make it almost completely mimic a real Mac. Vanilla OSX install, add the audio driver and that's it. Genuine Texas FireWire and TB. Two systems setup in late November and I haven't had not one phone call, email with a single little problem at all. Nothing. Spooky and so, so real mac like! A bit like the nMP : most memorable for the sheer silence of its design, in this case the sheer silence of the clients not complaining that this or that doesn't work properly!

Sadly it's just a single CPU ivy bridge design at the moment and not enough slots, but if they release a server sized version I'm going to be sorely tempted to replace my 3,1 with one of them.

Tutor · Mar 11, 2014

Old Mac Pros can make respectable homes for up to 3 double wide GPUs.

28.72 seconds for Mike Pan's BMW and 56 seconds for Octane Render Benchmark
Particulars -
1) Blender 2.69 and Octane Render 1.20;
2) 2007 MacPro2,1 w/ 8 x 3Ghz cores - 4 on each of two CPUs - these lack HT; 32 gigs of 667 MHz ram;
3) Mavericks 10.9.2 (Thanks to Tiamo - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1598176/ );
4) CUDA Driver Version: 5.5.28; Nvidia Driver Version: that installed by 10.9.2. I converted the pics from Grab’s tiff format into png format with Preview.
5) 3 Galaxy GTX 680s, each with 4 gig vram ( Maximum Graphics Card Power 195 W - 1 6-pin and 1 8-pin); GPU in slots 1 and 2 powered by FSP Booster + PCIe slots; GPU in slot 4 powered from two mobo 6-pin connectors (one with 6 to 8 converter), with PCIe slots 1, 2 and 4 all set, by Expansion Slot Utility.app in System/Library/CoreServices, to x8; and
6) No HDs in bays 2-4, but two more large capacity HDs in one of these [ http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=158&ParentCat=315 ] and FSP BoosterX5 in upper optical bay. Also of note is Mr. Dremel Tool's cut in the frame of the outer door for duct taped cable pass of the FSP's PCIe power cables into the GPU/PCIe bay.

Tutor · Mar 12, 2014

Four of what I'd like to put in my next 4 PCIe x16 double wide system.

For those who need multi-OS OpenCL capabilities for large format video and 3d production, the Saphire Radeon R9 290X Toxic may be just what the doctor ordered. Price and shipping date havent yet been announced for this factory overclocked GPU that has 8 gigs of vram. [ http://videocardz.com/49911/sapphire-shows-radeon-r9-290x-toxic-8gb-memory ]

DJenkins · Mar 13, 2014

expanding your arsenal across GPU brands eh??

8GB is massive, do you have an example of a scene that would need that much memory?

Tutor · Mar 14, 2014

DJenkins said:
expanding your arsenal across GPU brands eh??

I've been an AMD and Nvidia fan for many years, but that had nothing to do with GPU compute capability. Punknugget introduced me to what CUDA could do for video production and as I learned more about CUDA I realized that CUDA had greatly eclipsed OpenGL development and the power of the CPU for many 3d tasks. I suspect that CUDA will continue to do so for quite a while. I'd like to hedge my bets, however.

DJenkins said:

8GB is massive, do you have an example of a scene that would need that much memory?

Click to expand...

No. I haven't even come near to maxing out my 6G Titans yet. I guess that's because I like to design mainly with the fastest, smallest memory GPUs (like the GTX 480s and 590s) to ensure that I enforce discipline on my techniques. However, I anticipate that for more and more productions in the future, I going to be needing lots more vram for some tasks.

All We Know About Maximizing CPU Related Performance

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