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doug in albq

Suspended
Oct 12, 2007
1,449
246
why do all you non-parents assume that parents are "handing their iPhones to their kids."

I have two kids, ages 9 & 13, and they both have their own iPod touches. Sometimes I let them log-in on my Apple account so we can share a few games.

Of course, i do the basic parenting skill of asking them to not download anything that costs any money until they ask me.

I am also divorced, so my children are not under the same roof as me all of the time...

it's scenarios like this that all the NON-PARENTS posting in this thread have no empathy for.
 

ChrisCW11

macrumors 65816
Jul 21, 2011
1,037
1,433
New game for kids

How many thousands of dollars can you charge your parent's credit card by making in-app purchases within 15 minutes.

Sigh, Apple still doesn't get it that the best way to avoid all this is to create profiles and have separate profiles for parents vs children.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
It's a stupid default setting that consumers were not made aware of. Apple really should change the default setting, but the new alert is better than what we had before.

This.

I really don't understand why Apple can't wrap it's head around implementing easier iTunes purchases.

This, too. In fact, I'd say the constant annoying Apple insistence on passwords (and iTunes EULA update agreements) is a major reason why parents naturally assumed that there was no timeout.

Very ignorant to call the parents dumb, lazy, and not caring. Not many ppl knew of this 15min window including non parents. It' not in a instruction booklet about and it doesn't say anything about it when entering your password. A lot of us only know about it from this forum and news of parents getting screwed by the problem.

Like many, I didn't learn about it until I got a $250+ receipt from Apple.

Hell I didn't even know android had a 30 min window until read about in a post in this thread.

The difference is, Android defaults to requiring a password for each purchase unless you change the setting.

Here's my story: my daughter had always used an Android tablet, because it had Flash support for the popular kids' games like Moshi Monsters. Even a cheap tablet ran it pretty well.

No problem whatsoever on Android with IAPs. If she tried to buy something for real, I always had to authorize it.

Then I got an iPad and figured she could try it out. We downloaded a game, and I gave it to her to play with while I was surfing on the other tablet. I wasn't worried, because I figured that iOS was at least as safe as Android was.

Now, I rarely used iTunes to buy anything, so I had it set to send receipts to a rarely used email. A few days later I just happened to check that email, and was shocked to see the $250+ set of bills coming in from Apple.

(Btw, this is another problem: unlike Google, Apple lets multiple bills pile up before they send a receipt. In fact, I continued to get purchase notices for another day or so. Thanks, Apple.)

My first thought was that obviously someone had hacked my iTunes account, since I knew I hadn't authorized these purchases. Then, looking closer, I realized they might be IAPs from my daughter's game. I went and asked her, and she said "Yes Daddy, I bought some character clothes and other stuff". To her, it was no different than when she did the same in Moshi Monsters and other games with virtual money.

I still didn't understand how she was able to pay for it with iTunes, but resigned to paying for her innocent mistake, I wrote Apple support and only asked how I could prevent it from happening in the future.

To my surprise, they wrote back that they understood the purchases were unauthorized, and immediately offered a full refund. That was nice, but it would've been even nicer if it had never taken up my time at all.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,458
thanks for explaining all that. And the long description was necessary in this thread as at least the majority of the posters in this thread are NOT parents and have no clue about actual "parenting."
Yup, and they are often the majority of those who end up going off topic and discussing things they don't really understand because they think they understand them better than those who actually do.
 

marclondon

macrumors 6502
Aug 14, 2009
360
82
London
The UK has issued a deadline of the end of this month for Apple (and others) to sort this out; the European Commission is also likely to act, as it has recently said. The US FTC has already acted, to some extent.

The point is consumer protection law - the in-app model has stepped well over the mark. Those of you moaning about irresponsible parents would do well to look at lobbying for a repeal of all consumer law.
 

iChrist

macrumors 65816
Sep 7, 2011
1,479
432
3 countries for tax benefit
Your argument is absurd. The consumer is not to blame for a policy like this. Parents were burned not from neglect but because a default setting they were not made aware of put them in a dangerous situation.

Imagine you get your next credit card bill and there's an additional $1,000 in charges from Home Depot. You call them up in a rage. "Sorry sir, once we run your credit card and you sign for it it's available to anyone else's purchase for the next 15 minutes. You really should have looked into our policy."

I'm sure you'd be fine with that.

But hey, since there are parents and kids involved, it's easy to point the finger, right? Parents shoulda known! :rolleyes:


This analogy is absurd. Unless you leave your child unattended at Home Depot playing with the paint sample cards b/c you don't want to deal with them.

Parents who have their face buried in their phone all day and night, then give their kids a device to play with when the kid gets bored from neglect.

In-app purchases are the least of these parents worries. :rolleyes:
 

marclondon

macrumors 6502
Aug 14, 2009
360
82
London
Sigh, Apple still doesn't get it that the best way to avoid all this is to create profiles and have separate profiles for parents vs children.

They do get it of course but they'd rather they sold one iPad per family member. Android has user profiles now.

M.
 

MacrumoursUser

macrumors 6502
Mar 1, 2014
445
102
Denmark
But it's not just in-app purchases. In my case, my kid asked for a $.99 game. Sure, no problem. I put in my password, the game started downloading, he went on his merry way. And by "on his merry way" I mean "went to the other room where he managed to buy another dozen games because the 15-minute purchase window was still open, unbeknownst to me."

I'm not sure how some commenters here consider that laziness on the parents' behalf. How are we supposed to know the shopping spree continues unabated for 15 minutes by default? :confused:

What i would do:

1. Delete any sign of in-app purchase existence. That thing never existed.
2. All purchases require confirmation (be it password or Touch ID). Always.

iTunes account has a real credit card attached to it with real money in it. Why should it be any different than when you have to enter all details every time for any purchase you make online or when you draw money from ATM. ATM doesnt assume that it's still you just because you have antered the correct PIN inside the 15 minute window. That would be ridiculous.
 

mabhatter

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2009
1,022
388
Your argument is absurd. The consumer is not to blame for a policy like this. Parents were burned not from neglect but because a default setting they were not made aware of put them in a dangerous situation.

Imagine you get your next credit card bill and there's an additional $1,000 in charges from Home Depot. You call them up in a rage. "Sorry sir, once we run your credit card and you sign for it it's available to anyone else's purchase for the next 15 minutes. You really should have looked into our policy."

I'm sure you'd be fine with that.

But hey, since there are parents and kids involved, it's easy to point the finger, right? Parents shoulda known! :rolleyes:

This harks back to the days when you could "buy services" with your home phone. Anybody could just pick up your phone and order stuff unless you specifically placed all sorts of blocks... So your $20 phone bill would suddenly ballon to $500+.

There's a reason why NOBODY bought apps when the phone company was the tollbooth. Because it was corrupt as hell. Apple is clearly not learning from Ma Bell's mistake quickly enough.
 

marclondon

macrumors 6502
Aug 14, 2009
360
82
London
The other thing I notice from these 'conversations' is how ignorant people are of consumer law. In this case, for example, in many countries children are specifically protected - so no matter how the iPad is used, and who was at fault, if games are specifically targeting children, as many are, then law is on the consumers' side. The trouble is it takes regulators time to catch up with technology, but they are now.

M.
 

giantfan1224

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2012
870
1,115
This analogy is absurd. Unless you leave your child unattended at Home Depot playing with the paint sample cards b/c you don't want to deal with them.

Parents who have their face buried in their phone all day and night, then give their kids a device to play with when the kid gets bored from neglect.

In-app purchases are the least of these parents worries. :rolleyes:

You're not paying attention. This protects parents--and people in general--that weren't even aware that the 15 minute window even existed, making it possible for unintended purchases (by the iTunes account user). Whether this now further enables neglectful parents is not the point.
 
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ericinboston

macrumors 68020
Jan 13, 2008
2,005
476
Well this warning/feature only took Apple...ummmm...like 3 years to introduce after years of complaints.

I welcome the feature but it's years late IMO.
 

applesith

macrumors 68030
Jun 11, 2007
2,778
1,574
Manhattan
If you read into the issue a little more you'd know how wrong you are. But I guess it's easier to just label parents as lazy and un-involved. Good job.

----------



You'd watch them use the device? The entire time? Why? Man, too bad you don't want kids because you'd be the best, most attentive parent ever! :rolleyes:

Not everyone is a gadget fan or iOS guru. Not everyone monitors MacRumors, ArsTechnica and Engadget 20 times a day. It is unreasonable for a parent to know that if they enter a password for an individual purchase that their kids may be able to freely buy anything for the next 15 minutes. I'm a developer and follow the tech news, and even I could be caught off-guard.

It's not like we live in a world full of "free apps" that make headlines and everyone plays. Who are these parents who live under a rock and don't understand how free games work?

Maybe tell your kids to ask permission before clicking Yes when a message pops up saying "Are you sure you want to buy 100 gold coins for $4.99?"
 

giantfan1224

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2012
870
1,115
It's not like we live in a world full of "free apps" that make headlines and everyone plays. Who are these parents who live under a rock and don't understand how free games work?

Maybe tell your kids to ask permission before clicking Yes when a message pops up saying "Are you sure you want to buy 100 gold coins for $4.99?"

No kids, right? Because if you did, you'd know they don't always listen to you. And to make a blanket statement like, "who live (sic) under a rock and don't understand how free games work?" is testament to your ignorance on the multiple types of people that own smartphones. What about the ones that have no interest whatsoever in playing games on their smartphone yet might download a seemingly harmless game for their son or daughter? You think they know all about IAP?
 

mw360

macrumors 68020
Aug 15, 2010
2,032
2,395
It's not like we live in a world full of "free apps" that make headlines and everyone plays. Who are these parents who live under a rock and don't understand how free games work?

In terms of who lives under a rock, I think you may have it backwards. There's a little bit more to life than understanding mobile gaming.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,458
It's not like we live in a world full of "free apps" that make headlines and everyone plays. Who are these parents who live under a rock and don't understand how free games work?

Maybe tell your kids to ask permission before clicking Yes when a message pops up saying "Are you sure you want to buy 100 gold coins for $4.99?"
Yeah, maybe kids will listen to and do everything parents say. Oh, wait, reality just called. :rolleyes:
 
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carmenodie

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2008
775
0
Apple is pissing me off!
In app purchases are the biggest bait and switch scheme in the consumer space.
And of course Apple is getting their cut to.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
One thing I can predict for certain:

All the self-centered childless posters (and my guess is a lot of them are kids themselves) yapping about how to parent, will change their tune not long after they grow up and have kids themselves.

They'll also be embarrassed looking back at what they said.

For it is a fact of life, that most everyone finds out that their elders were right after all :)
 

afsnyder

macrumors 65816
Jan 7, 2014
1,270
33
You know what was even better?

When there was no in-app purchase crap.

Free apps suck because they are loaded with ads and possibly in-app purchases, therefore free apps = no download

Paid apps increasingly suck because more and more of them have in-app purchases, therefore paid apps = fewer and fewer worth buying

What happened to when you plunked down your $1-$5 and got an app with no ads, and didn't need any in-app purchases to have a full feature set? Can't remember the last time I bought an app since everything is either cluttered with ads or has in-app purchases to take full advantage of the app.

Well that's the developers fault. I just released in game (which I would really love to put the link here to advertise but thats rude) with just ads, just ads, no in app purchases. And better yet, I even made the ads go away when your doing something important like, playing the game.

It's the developers choice. So don't blame Apple for a widely successful feature, though maybe not popular.

----------

How many thousands of dollars can you charge your parent's credit card by making in-app purchases within 15 minutes.

Sigh, Apple still doesn't get it that the best way to avoid all this is to create profiles and have separate profiles for parents vs children.

How about you don't let the kid buy anything?
 

giantfan1224

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2012
870
1,115
One thing I can predict for certain:

All the self-centered childless posters (and my guess is a lot of them are kids themselves) yapping about how to parent, will change their tune not long after they grow up and have kids themselves.

They'll also be embarrassed looking back at what they said.

For it is a fact of life, that most everyone finds out that their elders were right after all :)

Well said. Nothing--and I mean NOTHING--can prepare you for what parenthood is like. I joke all the time that it's a good thing I didn't know what having kids was like until I had them or I probably wouldn't have. :D
 

dilbert99

macrumors 68020
Jul 23, 2012
2,193
1,829
But it'll be amazing how many parents won't understand that (or just ignore it completely) and then complain to Apple about how their kids spent thousands in 15 minutes.

Surely the best option is to have the feature turned off and have no-one enable it unless they explicitly wanted it.

Prior to this there was no easy way to know that purchases could be made for 15 minutes. Not every parent reads sites like this.
 

koban4max

macrumors 68000
Aug 23, 2011
1,582
0
why the heck is apple being a slave to the people? Seriously...apple...get your act together and you make your own rule...don't let others tell you what to do...
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,458
why the heck is apple being a slave to the people? Seriously...apple...get your act together and you make your own rule...don't let others tell you what to do...
Perhaps because they make things for people and therefore would need to appeal to those people?
 
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