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taptic

macrumors 65816
Dec 5, 2012
1,341
437
California
Attachment or not, it would all still apply:

Overall, a bad idea.
1. Won't work with cases,

Maybe not all cases, yes, but someone would probably make a special one.

2. will break off easily,

Hence the idea of magnets everyone has been suggesting.

3. will get hung up in pockets or purses,

So you take it off when you put it in your pocket. It could hang on a keychain or something and you could, using the magnets, just clip it on the front of the phone for a second.... just an idea.

4. will look ugly,

I'm pretty sure Apple thinks about aesthetics a teeny bit at least.

5. would become too bulky and not fit in shirt pockets

Answered in the one about not fitting in pockets.

6. would have continual dirt and dust problems,

...not really. :/

7. would add additional cost for those that don't want it, and

Buy it separately if you want it. Don't if you don't.

8. the iPhone is still primarily a phone, not a camera.

Right, so it would be an attachment. Attachments enhance the main thing. Not fully turn it into what the attachment is.


I honestly don't understand why you said they would all still apply... xD
 

springsup

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2013
1,222
1,209
Uh, they could have a bayonet mount that is spring-loaded. It's flush when not in use, and a quick toggle with the lens base would pop it out.

. . . just like the iPod Touch loop mount. The whole point of that loop mount was to test their manufacturing tolerances and long-term reliability for such a mechanism on a massive scale, not because the loop was particularly cool or anything.

A magnet strong enough to lock lenses in place could be havoc for people who have keys, change, pens, and magstripes in their pockets close to their phones. So basically everyone.

No. Take a look at Apple's products, and one thing stands out - a massive aversion to moving parts.

Their MacBooks contain no switches, sliders, nobs or dials. The power cable attaches magnetically, and you can't even replace the battery any more. The iPhone contains no flaps, no removable back-side; none of that stuff. The reason is very simple - that stuff is all very fragile; it gets clogged with dirt or breaks, becomes stiff or wears out after repeated use.

I once had a Sony Vaio with an external WiFi switch, and after a while it came loose; you'd be happily chugging away, then all of a sudden you'd lose your internet connection and because you rested your palm on the palm-rest and the switch was eased slightly out of perfect alignment. It looked similar to this:

sonyAR_9.jpg


That frustration alone didn't cause me to buy a new laptop, but it certainly increased my need to do so; and when I did, it wasn't a Vaio. In fact, now I have that negative association with them I can't see myself ever buying one again. That's the kind of power crappy moving parts can have.

====

You could very easily defeat the keys/change problem by making the magnet an electromagnet. It can disable itself once the screen is locked, for instance.

====
 

HurtinMinorKey

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2012
439
171
No. They don't care at all. People don't choose DSLR's over phones. They choose both. One has no effect on the other. Even hobbyist photographers are going to buy actual cameras. Hell, most parents will buy a camera for shots of their kids. This is in no way any threat to DSLR's.

Um, in the last 5 years Cannon and Nikon made much more money off their point and shoots than DSLRs. Phones have already killed many of those (point and shoot) potential sales. The notion of a detachable lens system on a phone just may very well kill off the rest. And if they do it all enough, entry level DSLRs will be the next to fall.

----------

Yeah I don't see the DSLR market caring too much about phone cameras.

Lol. You think the only thing they think about is DSLRs?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57595603-92/canon-hit-by-rising-popularity-of-smartphone-cameras/

But don't worry, the DSLR is next.
 

Robert.Walter

macrumors 68040
Jul 10, 2012
3,093
4,364
If they don't use a magnetic mount, and instead go with a bayonet, my expectation is that what is shown is the opposite of what they will execute. Instead of a protruding mount, they would use a recessed mount.

By the way, if the back panel, or upper panel, is all sapphire, apple would eliminate at least two machining operations and several components as this panel could be machined inside and out for lens characteristics, and eliminate the lens-ring-panel interfaces.

Further, machining a larger surround around the lens opening would provide a pocket into which a clip on lens could be accurately located, and if asymmetrical, a surface to provide adequate resistance to counter torque for lenses with user variable mechanical features.
 

PlanetFree

macrumors member
Jun 11, 2013
77
0
London, England
I dont think Apple would use a design that has the potential to cacth on your clothes as you put/pull the phone from your pocket. Keep it smooth Apple keep it smooth.
 

torturegarden

macrumors newbie
Dec 9, 2012
29
4
Maybe you're holding it wrong. :) There are plenty of great iPhone photos in existence so it can't be that it doesn't have "a useable camera".

Not to say it doesn't get the white balance wrong sometimes or manual controls wouldn't be useful.

What would be really nice, and only require a small amount of software (thus meaning it's feasible and easily done) would be a RAW format option. That would completely fix getting the white balance wrong (by deferring the choice of what to set it to until later).

RAW would be great. I shoot RAW all the time on my proper cameras. I adjust every photo I take on the 5C with Camera+ to get a more accurate white balance. I can shoot a cloudless bright blue sky and it turns out a pale blue/gray color. I took it to the Genius Bar and they found nothing wrong. My older 4S had a better camera.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,907
You could very easily defeat the keys/change problem by making the magnet an electromagnet. It can disable itself once the screen is locked, for instance.

On vacation in Arizona, taking a picture. Accidentally hits sleep button.

Lens falls into the Grand Canyon.
 

philips

macrumors regular
Oct 14, 2004
148
0
Baden-Württemberg, Germany
In a newly published patent application (via Patently Apple), Apple explores a bayonet lens attachment mechanism to fix a separate lens to an iPhone. Bayonet ...

Wow. Somebody managed to patent a bayonet mount in this age?

Probably was a slow day in USPTO. So they decided to mix it up a bit by allowing a patent on something used for about a century now.

I gather the patent lawyers are overjoyed - some serious $$$$$ would be wasted on them for dismissing the patent.

The only question I have: how soon do you think Apple would sue Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Leica, Olympus and the rest of the imaging industry? But I'm sure fanboys would be delighted: if Apple has patented it, then it definitely Apple's invention!!!
 

majordude

macrumors 68020
Apr 28, 2007
2,439
74
Hootersville
I am not about to read all these pages so maybe this has already been addressed but I would not have the iPhone contain a male screw but a female so that nothing protrudes.

(Let the Beavis and Butt-head laughter commence.)
 

StyxMaker

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2010
2,046
654
Inside my head.
RAW would be great. I shoot RAW all the time on my proper cameras. I adjust every photo I take on the 5C with Camera+ to get a more accurate white balance. I can shoot a cloudless bright blue sky and it turns out a pale blue/gray color. I took it to the Genius Bar and they found nothing wrong. My older 4S had a better camera.


I tried shooting raw once. The police said I had to go back inside and put clothes on.
 

cppguy

macrumors 6502a
Apr 6, 2009
600
907
SF Bay Area, California
Digital zoom is the devil. DEVIL!

Right now phone cameras have a single lens. If you had three lenses, such as 30mm, 50mm, 85mm, you could cover a lot more situations. And those who must have an in-between focal length would be able to crop. I don't see why they couldn't integrate 3 different lenses on a single phone.
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,460
Vilano Beach, FL
The popout lanyard on the iPod Touch is a nice implementation of an optional mounting point - it’s sturdy, doesn’t protrude when not in use, and even adds an interesting little design detail. Since it’s highly likely the next iPhone will change form factor, necessitating new case designs anyway, it’s easy considered. I realize the tolerances would have to be tighter for a lens.

I think it’s pretty neat. I’d love to be able to optically enhance photos with a tiny lens I could pocket, or easily keep around, since for me, I like the convenience of photos on my phone (vs. a small P&S).


If you take a jewelers eye loop , and put the iphone lens on it you get really sharp and good looking macro pictures.

Takes a bit to figure it out, but I do it all the time to show close ups.

Not an every day solution, but works:)

Very cool. Do you have any photos you’ve shot with technique? I’m sure I’m not the only one that would love to see a couple :cool:
 

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
Trust me, they do.

Phones are better for photography in every single way, other than the most important aspect, image capture.

Phones already have better screens, more portability, instant editing, instant sharing and processing.

It's only a matter of time before phones capture images of quality matching today's prosumer DSLR's. And this patent seems to be a step in that direction.

Phones already killed point and shoots.

I wonder how much a phone would cost if it had a lens equal to a Cannon L, lets say a 400mm F2.8?
 

Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
.....ya, ok so Apple's doing this for themselves...

When u can just get third party mounts and they work perfectly....

"...may not be strong enough" is just in Apple's "favor" ...
 

Robert.Walter

macrumors 68040
Jul 10, 2012
3,093
4,364
If they don't use a magnetic mount, and instead go with a bayonet, my expectation is that what is shown is the opposite of what they will execute. Instead of a protruding mount, they would use a recessed mount.

By the way, if the back panel, or upper panel, is all sapphire, apple would eliminate at least two machining operations and several components as this panel could be machined inside and out for lens characteristics, and eliminate the lens-ring-panel interfaces.

Further, machining a larger surround around the lens opening would provide a pocket into which a clip on lens could be accurately located, and if asymmetrical, a surface to provide adequate resistance to counter torque for lenses with user variable mechanical features.

Was thinking about this again, and if apple was using a sapphire back panel, perhaps they will incorporate two cameras, with different capabilities (one near and one far, that overlap somewhat). Perhaps this, with both cameras mounted as close together as possible, combined with a trick software (Super-HDR) could be used for 3D filming, or Lytro style variable zooming. The cameras and processors are getting so compact and powerful that the technical and cost barriers are falling away.
 

rtdunham

macrumors 6502a
Jun 21, 2003
991
81
St. Petersburg, FL, Northern KY
The only way this could possibly not be the case is if they were developing this for a TRUE camera and not an iPhone. But I would think that's unlikely. Who knows, anything can happen!

And has happened.

applequicktake200.jpg


Scruffy said:
...what's the point for carrying around extra lenses with your phone? IMO it would make more sense to just get a dedicated camera since the point of the phone cameras is that you always have it in your pocket. There are some very nice compact camera systems on the market

I carry a compact camera with a 12x zoom plus my iPhone and the Olloclip set of lenses. I occasionally use the latter for macro and wide angle (both work nicely). An iPhone with zoom would eventually eliminate the need for the camera.
 
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bigpics

macrumors 6502
Jul 26, 2002
287
48
Rockland County, New York
Only in the sense of how digital zoom is implemented by 99.9% of current cameras that can be achieved in the same way by cropping in software.

A system such as Fuji's 40+ megapixel camera allows digital zoom that is better than just cropping doesn't it?

The age of the phone cam is analogous to the mp3'ing of music - giving up qualities and possibilities for convenience.

Any camera with a single focal length lens gives up control of perspective and "true" control of depth of field (although software can simulate the latter).

Perspective is the relationship between things near to the lens and things far away. A telephoto lens (more "mm" of "focal length" and generally bigger and longer lenses physically) brings distant objects visually closer to subjects in the foreground and makes them look bigger in comparison.

It also flattens distance, making, e.g., mountains in the distance both bigger and in nearly the same plane as whatever's close to the lens.

And it has less depth of field, i.e., a narrower range of what's in the zone of sharp focus.

A wide angle lens (fewer "mm" of focal length) does just the opposite, i.e., it can make something in your own back yard look far away from a person near the camera.

These important aspects of being able to control how an image looks truly can't be simulated in any fixed focal length picture-taking device.

Here's a primer: Lens focal length has personality. It brings a certain character, a feeling, to a shot.

*****

Which is not to say that phone cams can't be innovative or useful (and many have unique features that even spendy DSLR's don't).

And some famous photographers shot with a single focal length for their whole careers, but most use a range of focal lengths, either with a series of dedicated single focal lengths (which can still have the best optical quality possible of any lens) or a zoom or several (which add lots of convenience, but generally at the cost of some optical quality and lens speed).

Also, while I'm not familiar with the phone you mentioned, I have looked into the Lumia high-end cams.

And what they do IS a form of digital zoom - they simply have enough info in the image file to let you pick different parts of the image that still have enough resolution to look good on screen or at reasonable print sizes so that you can extract a number of interesting pics from a single snap.

But not change any of the relationships discussed above.

As a photographer, and appreciator of photography, I'm pained at how this information is simply disappearing from the knowledge banks of most who point a lens at things. Still, we're getting by with our snapshooting new world and more things than ever are being photographed and videoed.
 

Quu

macrumors 68040
Apr 2, 2007
3,421
6,797
Yeah I don't see the DSLR market caring too much about phone cameras.

That is what the compact camera market said.

There is only one criteria for phones to overtake DSLR's - They have to take pictures as good or better. This mounting system is one part of the many things needed to accomplish that goal.
 

springsup

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2013
1,222
1,209
That is what the compact camera market said.

There is only one criteria for phones to overtake DSLR's - They have to take pictures as good or better. This mounting system is one part of the many things needed to accomplish that goal.

DSLRs are different - they have always been a professional tool.

The criteria isn't whether or not phones can take "as good" pictures; it's whether phones can give you a comparable amount of creative freedom. DSLRs aren't for people who just want to capture things; you could always get a compact camera if that's your only goal. DSLRs are for people for whom photography is an expressive art.

Professional photography requires a sort of dialog between the subject and the photographer; the subject is what is is, and the photographer decides what is important and how to capture the subject to best portray that.

As you say, the mounting system/lens is just one tool to unleash that. If Apple are going to really open up photographic creativity, they would still have a long way to go before they can match a DSLR.

In the mean time, the professional camera industry needs to start innovating. Lytro is a good example of what can still be done with photography.
 

Menneisyys2

macrumors 603
Jun 7, 2011
5,997
1,101
First they need top make a usable camera in the phone. EVERY photo I take with my 5C needs to have the white balance corrected.

I'm absolutely sure you're doing something wrong. The iPhones have excellent auto while balance (except for fluorescent lighting) - generally, significantly better and more reliable than other mobile OS'es.

Some degree of manual control and a halfway decent sensor would be a good start.

1. Manual control: yes, iOS' Achilles heel is the complete lack of manual modes. In this regard, all other mobile OS'es are significantly better.

2. Bad sensor in the 5c? You don't seem to know what you're speaking about, I'm afraid. By late 2012 standards, the 5c sensor is excellent and in no way worse than the sensor in, say, the GS4. Of course it's in not the same league as that of the Nokia 808 / 1020 but it's not meant to either.

----------

Apple going after mirror less cameras. Step aside nikon 808. Hope they can cram a 1" sensor.

Impossible in a 7mm-thin phone. You can't place the sensor this close to the lens because of the laws of physics and optics. (Read up on why microlenses are used with some sensors.)

----------

That is what the compact camera market said.

There is only one criteria for phones to overtake DSLR's - They have to take pictures as good or better. This mounting system is one part of the many things needed to accomplish that goal.

I'd certainly welcome a lens mount in the iPhones as I very often use, their being adequate P&S cameras, my iDevices for shooting.

However, I really don't think Apple implements this. As has been pointed out in this thread too, it's simply against their "KISS" approach and would also introduce some additional bulk. Besides, let, say, 95-99% of their users (let's not forget that the iOS is especially targeted at the tech illiterate) wouldn't use this - such a delicate mechanism would only cause confusion and additional sources of problems with these folks.

----------

RAW would be great. I shoot RAW all the time on my proper cameras. I adjust every photo I take on the 5C with Camera+ to get a more accurate white balance. I can shoot a cloudless bright blue sky and it turns out a pale blue/gray color. I took it to the Genius Bar and they found nothing wrong. My older 4S had a better camera.

Note that you don't need to shoot in third-party apps if you want to lock WB. If you're JB'n, just purchase and use the absolutely excellent CameraTweak (2) (see https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1708305/ for my review ). It allows for locking WB right in the stock Camera app.
 

Menneisyys2

macrumors 603
Jun 7, 2011
5,997
1,101
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