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Old Mar 21, 2014, 08:54 AM   #26
gnasher729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddsimon View Post
of course it does an iPad starts at 399 and iPhone starts at 99 or even less sometimes.
iPhones costs the same or more than iPads. You are looking at the perceived cost, which is quite different. Can you buy one iPhone every day of the month for 30 days, paying $99 each time? I don't think so.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 08:54 AM   #27
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>The CIRP report ... shows that almost half of iPad owners will go without their tablet, waiting a week or more to replace a broken, lost or stolen device.

The graph shows that it's a little over 23% waiting a week or more. More than 50% would replace it within 1-2 days. Am I reading it wrong?
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 08:57 AM   #28
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I have to agree and I can see why the iPhone is the driving force behind Apple's sales.

I upgrade my phone every time a new phone comes out. In the other hand I've had my Mac Pro since 2009. Besides making upgrades like Hard Drives, Video Card and Memory, I have no need for a new computer.

I purchased the iPad Air (128GB model) late last year and I'm very happy with the performance. I can see this iPad lasting me at least 2 years unless there's a dramatic new model with new features.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:02 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by dannyyankou View Post
I'm still using my iPad 2 and it still works extremely well, even on iOS 7.
This is true for me as well. I have a 16GB iPad 2 that is running iOS 7.1 and it's still a pretty capable device.

I've only considered unloading it to get a Retina iPad Mini. I have yet to do so though.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:03 AM   #30
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Wait a minute… You mean Macs and iPad upgrades aren't dictated by cell carrier contract agreements?!
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:05 AM   #31
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I can definitely say I'm guilty of upgrading every new iPad release. However, I think my iPad Air will be sticking with me for at least 2 years. They really did a great job IMO as compared to the last couple of releases.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:05 AM   #32
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Apple has enforced it's planned obsolescence to the cracking point of the public's goodwill. It's interesting that Steve Jobs stated that he didn't want to build TVs because the margins suck and there isn't enough "turnover." Apple's methods of forcing "turnover" have rubbed me the wrong way on more than one occasion. They can't take it much further before people (or at least I) decide that Apple just isn't worth it any more.

On that note, my iPad 2 is still running strong having faced frequent use by toddlers for years.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:07 AM   #33
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Apple will fix this by forcing iOS8 onto all those old devices ('see, we're supporting older devices like never before!') and have them do almost the exact same stuff at barely half the speed they used to.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:08 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyrider View Post
iPhone doesn't "start at $99". $99 is a subsidized cost when you sign up for a brand new 2-year contract. The lowest cost off-contract iPhone 5C is $549.00, so iPhone is more expensive than iPad.
The contract is a sunk cost, you are paying it no matter what phone you get.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:08 AM   #35
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My iPad 2 is still going strong - despite a couple drops by my 6 year old onto the ceramic tile kitchen floor. I got it a couple months after launch.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:08 AM   #36
dannyyankou
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Originally Posted by gadgetguy03 View Post
This is true for me as well. I have a 16GB iPad 2 that is running iOS 7.1 and it's still a pretty capable device.

I've only considered unloading it to get a Retina iPad Mini. I have yet to do so though.
Yeah, there hasn't really been a compelling reason to upgrade yet. The upgraded camera is nice, but I don't want to be one of these people, so I'll wait a little longer.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:09 AM   #37
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What an irrelevant post.

MacRumors have been awfully boring for the last few weeks. I would've expected plenty of leaks of the new MacBook Air, new iPhone 6, new Mac Mini et.c. by now. I find it strange that there is nothing to report.

It seems maybe we won't be getting anything new until autumn.

Maybe WWDC will only be focusing on software this year, which would be really boring as I've come to expect a new MBA. (The MBA has been updated at WWDC for the last two years).

All this talk of new product releases throughout 2014... More than a quarter of the year has passed and not even ONE new product has been released. The new AppleTV has not yet been released. No new iPads. iPhones won't be arriving till September. No new computers (most computers show up as Do Not Buy in the Buyers Guide). No iWatch. Nothing. (No, I don't consider the 8GB 5c or the iPad 4 to be new products).

What's going on? Is Apple going to release all products in Q3 & Q4?
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:10 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by RawBert View Post
Apple made my iPad 3 so well, I won't need to replace it for quite a while.
The redheaded stepchild of iPads.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:14 AM   #39
dannyyankou
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Originally Posted by MacRazySwe View Post
What an irrelevant post.

MacRumors have been awfully boring for the last few weeks. I would've expected plenty of leaks of the new MacBook Air, new iPhone 6, new Mac Mini et.c. by now. I find it strange that there is nothing to report.

It seems maybe we won't be getting anything new until autumn.

Maybe WWDC will only be focusing on software this year, which would be really boring as I've come to expect a new MBA. (The MBA has been updated at WWDC for the last two years).

All this talk of new product releases throughout 2014... More than a quarter of the year has passed and not even ONE new product has been released. The new AppleTV has not yet been released. No new iPads. iPhones won't be arriving till September. No new computers (most computers show up as Do Not Buy in the Buyers Guide). No iWatch. Nothing. (No, I don't consider the 8GB 5c or the iPad 4 to be new products).

What's going on? Is Apple going to release all products in Q3 & Q4?
What are they supposed to do, make up leaks? If there's barely anything to report, it will get boring around here.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:15 AM   #40
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Anyone who doesn't upgrade each time a new iPad comes out is a disloyal customer. Plain and simple.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:15 AM   #41
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Stayed with iPad 1 until getting a retina Mini this year. The 1 is still capable of doing a lot.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:17 AM   #42
davidinva
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawBert View Post
Apple made my iPad 3 so well, I won't need to replace it for quite a while.
I feel the same about my 3, although the Mini Retina is tempting.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:18 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by LordVic View Post
THIS!

the iPad is a fairly expensive tablet. And the everyday, Average user isn't going to know the difference between 1 product lifecycle update.

Case Study (Your mileage may vary).

I purchased my sister an iPad2 for her birthday when the iPad 2 was fairly new. With 2 young kids, She loves it. It fully replaced using a computer for her at home as she could use it while keeping active with her children. She swears by it (she's a stay at home mom, but not by choice) as it still allows her full social interaction with friends and colleagues. She's not a gamer, And most of the time the iPad is in the 5 and 2 year olds hands (they can use it better than Grandma!). She is not a power user. She is a very typical baseline average for what can be done by the general population on these things.

Forwards a few years. I bought my father an ipad4 for his use. as an expiriment, I switched them. Same software between the two and let my sister and the kids play with the 4. After which, I asked all their opinions on the difference.

The kids obviously had no clue. they could launch everything exactly the same as before. easy peasy. Simple. the iPad was an iPad was an iPad. My sister didnt notice any significant differences. "slighty faster" and "a little lighter" was her explaination. in fact, She said she actually didnt notice until she went to plug it in and the connector was different.

Similarly, I did this with my father as well. He saw absolutely zero difference either for his basic average everyday needs.

when asked if they believed the value of $100 (more in Canada) was worth the upgrade from the 2 to the 4 for their use, they both claimed that there was absolutely no point in upgrading.

However, dont get me started on their opinions of iOS7

What this case study shows to me is that the fundamental differences between versions of the iPad, even with Retina display, are not significantly different enough to convince existing "average baseline" users to spend another $499 to get the latest and greatest. That seems to be a trend reserved for well. US. the techno junkies who care about geekbench scores and counting the FPS in our games.

Include in that the 3 was more of a stopgap product that really shouldn't have been made. its clear that there's not a big upgrade path.

The iPad air on the otherhand introduces (IMHO) the first really true significant update to the iPad line since the iPad2's release.
Where I live, it is cheaper to buy ipad than iphone... how does that cope with your math?
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:20 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by MacRazySwe View Post
What an irrelevant post.

MacRumors have been awfully boring for the last few weeks. I would've expected plenty of leaks of the new MacBook Air, new iPhone 6, new Mac Mini et.c. by now. I find it strange that there is nothing to report.

It seems maybe we won't be getting anything new until autumn.

Maybe WWDC will only be focusing on software this year, which would be really boring as I've come to expect a new MBA. (The MBA has been updated at WWDC for the last two years).

All this talk of new product releases throughout 2014... More than a quarter of the year has passed and not even ONE new product has been released. The new AppleTV has not yet been released. No new iPads. iPhones won't be arriving till September. No new computers (most computers show up as Do Not Buy in the Buyers Guide). No iWatch. Nothing. (No, I don't consider the 8GB 5c or the iPad 4 to be new products).

What's going on? Is Apple going to release all products in Q3 & Q4?
Pretty much yes... We are not going to see new product launching until WWDC... Apple refreshed their Mac line up on WWDC last year, bringing new MacBook Air, the new Apple AirPort Extreme. Apple also updated its MacBook Pro and iMac on Q3 last year.

Certainly iPad, iPhone are going to release in Sepetember and October time frame.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:21 AM   #45
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I typically use my devices until they no longer work or do the job i need them to do.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:22 AM   #46
kironin
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My iPad 2 running iOS 6 does everything I need it to do. Since it was a bonus award from my company, better yet it didn't cost me anything. The iPad air (5) was the first one that tempted me, but then I looked at the cost and decided a Macbook Air running Mavericks made more sense. Traveling with one light device that replaces anything I was doing with an iPad and Macbook, a lot more convenient and better.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:23 AM   #47
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Apple needs to up their game with iPads. The potential is there, but Apple is not taking advantage of the iPad platform to the fullest. Certainly, the majority of consumers are satisfied with the features, as they are not technically apt at even utilizing the existing feature set. However, for more advanced users, the iPad (and the iOS) starts to feel rather restrictive.

As a network engineer, I would love to be able to use my iPad, but I really can't unless I jailbreak in order to expand its feature set. I need true backgrounding - not the Apple's pseudo backgrounding, multi-window support, true access to the file system, the capability to transfer files via a network file system protocol like SMB, mouse pointer, etc. The iPad is capable of all of that but not without jailbreaking. There's no way to do any real work as a network engineer without having a mouse pointer - period. The jailbroken hack that allows a mouse or trackpad to be paired with the iOS via Bluetooth - BTC Mouse and Trackpad (not yet available for iOS 7) does this beautifully.

Even on the consumer side, there are some features that are so easy to enable, but Apple refuses to do so. For instance, being able to airplay sound to an iOS device. I jailbroke my iPad Air and iPad Mini with retina display, and installed Airfloat. I can now watch Apple TV at night on my HDTV while Airplaying the sound to headphones plugged into an iPad so that I do not wake up my child. I have not been able to do this for 3.5 years since I bought Apple TV2 in 2010. I always wondered why Apple never enabled this feature. It would be great if I could do this with my iPhone, but my job does not allow jailbroken iPhones, so I have to do this with an iPad. This is such a useful feature, and it works perfectly with Airfloat on the jailbroken iOS device. Why not have this supported natively in the iOS?

Apple has always been arrogant, but when Steve was at the helm, he had the right to be arrogant because he was brilliant. The current leadership is not brilliant, and they need to drop their arrogance. The competition is catching up, and because it's significantly less expensive, the edge that Apple used to have is getting erased. Apple really needs to start paying attention to detail and enabling the features that could set the iOS devices apart from the competition.

There are other issues with the platform like the ones with two standard photo apps - Photos and iPhoto. This is confusing. Drop Photos already since iPhoto is now free. Shared Photo Streams vs Web Journals. Airdrop vs Wireless Beaming. It's like there are two teams working on similar features: one on iOS and Photos, and the other one on iPhoto. They are duplicating each other's efforts, and are creating confusion for the customers. There's no one good way to share photos via iCloud. There's no one good way to share Videos - you can publish videos via Photos to a shared Photo Stream, or via iPhoto to a Web Journal, or via iMovie, but then, you can only watch it on the Apple TV via iMovie Theater. The maximum lengths of the videos in each of those cases is different and ranges between 5 minutes and 15 minutes. This is so confusing for the end user. It's not even possible to document all of these features in any coherent way. All of this needs to be cleaned up and made available across all the platforms - iOS, OS X, and iOS for Apple TV.

And what about Airdrop not being interoperable between iOS and OS X? This is completely ridiculous. Apple prides itself on the ease of use of its products, but Apple has created a mess in the past few years with lack of interoperability and duplication of solutions across systems. There's no coherency in what they have done with all of these great features. This is not much better than the Android's fragmentation, but Android is a lot cheaper. So, people are starting to evaluate the two platforms, and they no longer see a real advantage of iOS over Android. Apple can fix all of these issues within a year. The solutions are already there - no invention is required. They just need to clean up their act so that the consumer sees a real advantage to paying twice as much for a streamlined experience.

As a shareholder, I've been getting increasingly more frustrated with the lack of progress on the interoperability and feature expansion fronts.

Unfortunately, iPad is not a replacement for a computer. It's a replacement for a Web browser, but not for much more. If everything you do is in a web browser, you don't need a computer. If you do a little more than browsing, Facebooking, or watching Netflix / Hulu, the iPad is not cutting it due to Apple's own restrictive mentality rather than the technical issues with the hardware platform itself.

Last edited by sirozha; Mar 21, 2014 at 09:52 AM.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:23 AM   #48
WilliamLondon
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Originally Posted by sportsfan View Post
The contract is a sunk cost, you are paying it no matter what phone you get.
The telcos have obviously done their job well, by making people believe this nonsense. There are alternative ways of paying for phone service that have nothing whatsoever with signing an expensive and long-term contract. The contract is the hook (it makes the telcos oodles of money), the upfront payment is the lure. I'm constantly amazed at what people will justify paying for phones and their cell phone service, it's what I would consider akin to a car payment.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:23 AM   #49
Radio
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Come on guys

We need to help apple and buy iPads on credit

What would help apple is if they offer a zero % interest for your iPad purchase then they have you on the hook.

But this report is very true. Nobody replaces their iPad unless they're a tech nerd
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 09:23 AM   #50
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To me, that lifecycle difference makes obvious sense. The first, and most blatant is the retail price point. an iPad can cost nearly as much as a computer and more than a television. A subsidized iPhone (the way most people buy them) is waaaaay cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyrider View Post
iPhone doesn't "start at $99". $99 is a subsidized cost when you sign up for a brand new 2-year contract. The lowest cost off-contract iPhone 5C is $549.00, so iPhone is more expensive than iPad.
Over it's life it certainly is, but not when purchased. With the scarcity of BYOD plans in the US, the unsubsidized cost is near irrelevant.

Another reason is the way they are used. I don't even mean the difference in what apps are on them, because I would think that would have the opposite effect. I'm thinking more about the way they are handled and how mobile they are. iPhones are more likely to be carried everywhere, often without much in the way of a case. This subjects them to a lot more risk of damage and loss.
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