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RobertMartens

macrumors 65816
Aug 29, 2002
1,177
300
Tokyo, Japan
JWhen Scully produced those awful ProFormas I had to switch to Windows.

The Performas were pretty sad, but you could easily keep away from them. Mac OS and Performa are not the same thing. Nor is Windows a machine. Mac OS 8 was still better than Windows 95 and what did you buy anyway, a Compaq?
 

rp2011

macrumors 68020
Oct 12, 2010
2,337
2,653
Steve may be gone, but Scott Forstall is deeply missed. And iOS7 really rubs that in.
 

macnisse

macrumors 6502
Jun 26, 2010
395
1
"Christie gave two progress reports to Jobs each month, in a small, windowless meeting room at the company's Cupertino headquarters. Few people had access to the room and even cleaning people were not allowed to enter. The secrecy surrounding the original iPhone's design was incredible, with Jobs even requiring employees to encrypt images of the device."

Cool! BTW, is it possible to "double down" on that?! ;-)
 

iBug2

macrumors 601
Jun 12, 2005
4,531
851
Logitech makes some great keyboards and mice, the mice being much better than Apple's offerings IMHO.

I have used Logitech mice since the late 90's. But I never see Logitech as an Apple-like company. They most certainly don't pay that much attention to details. They make decent mice with half baked designs, and terrible software. They are still the best imho but they could do so much better.
 

numlock

macrumors 68000
Mar 13, 2006
1,590
88
So you think Steve Jobs is the genius that he is, but is incapable of choosing leadership to keep his vision alive? I think that's pretty insulting to Jobs true brilliance, which was talent management/recruiting and having good "taste" in people, not just products.

Scully and the Apple of 1985 was not an organization that Jobs set up himself. First of all, he was much younger and less experienced. Second, the board of directors didn't allow Jobs to have that level of control over the organization. Scully was approved by Jobs to be CEO due to inexperience as well as pressure from the board, who were money hungry types and not visionaries. The only group Jobs assembled entirely himself was the Macintosh team, only 100 people. That was all he was allowed to do.

2014 Apple is a completely different beast than 1985. Let alone the fact that Tim Cook has been Jobs' right hand man for over 15 years while Scully wasn't. This is an organization assembled from top to bottom by Steve Jobs himself. From the leadership to the structure to the culture to the processes, all Steve Jobs. Jobs even created internally the Apple University during his last few years.

To compare Apple today to the Scully Apple is a complete slap in the face to the mighty Steve Jobs you think was irreplaceable. It's just funny to me, people treat him like a God, but then slap him in the face when it comes to his ability to leave his creation in capable hands.

I'm pretty sure Jobs cared about it much more than you. And I'm pretty sure he thought much longer and harder about it than you have. And I'm pretty sure he knows Tim Cook and Jony Ive much better than you.

so the whole sugared watered lined was from a man with his hands tied behind his back by the board?

btw being a greater leader of a company (second time around) has got nothing to do with your abilities to pick your replacements. the ones that complement you may not be your best replacements.

Maybe because they didn't steal other people's ideas and decided to invent their own solution.

what does this mean in this context? if it was done before both in im and other messaging apps then it must have been somone elses idea right?
 

na1577

macrumors 6502a
Jan 20, 2008
899
88
It's hard to imagine another company putting this much effort into any product they create.

Apple is SO detail oriented.

I have a harder time imagining how other companies seemingly put so little effort into their products. It's so easy to find products where I find myself thinking, "Who thought this was acceptable to ship?" Whether it's poor build quality, UI inconsistency or performance issues, there are so many products on the market that are shockingly unpolished. Apple isn't perfect, especially in recent times, but still do a lot better than most of their competitors.
 

admob71

Suspended
Feb 13, 2014
903
538
MANCHESTER, ENGLAND.
Try! :p

[EDIT]

If you're unable to agree more, try agreeing LESS :p

The original post is 100% correct grammar.. he agrees 100% with the discussion, hence he couldn't agree any more to a higher degree. To agree less means he's not quite on board. Which is the opposite of what he meant. He's correct.. you are trying to find fault where there is none.. behave..[COLOR="#808080"
 
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satcomer

Suspended
Feb 19, 2008
9,115
1,973
The Finger Lakes Region
Tell me about it. Crappy Windows Mobile could do it too, but don't let the youngling hear that those features were pretty standard on every smartphone.

I love how the iPhone changed the aesthetic, and gave users a REAL device that was easy to use, but the iPhone took all of 6 years to gain features that a Treo 600w and Palm TX had by default.

You do realize that Apple had the Newton and Plam@ Treo were just cheap knockoffs of the Newton?
 

melendezest

Suspended
Jan 28, 2010
1,693
1,579
So you think Steve Jobs is the genius that he is, but is incapable of choosing leadership to keep his vision alive? I think that's pretty insulting to Jobs true brilliance, which was talent management/recruiting and having good "taste" in people, not just products.

Scully and the Apple of 1985 was not an organization that Jobs set up himself. First of all, he was much younger and less experienced. Second, the board of directors didn't allow Jobs to have that level of control over the organization. Scully was approved by Jobs to be CEO due to inexperience as well as pressure from the board, who were money hungry types and not visionaries. The only group Jobs assembled entirely himself was the Macintosh team, only 100 people. That was all he was allowed to do.

2014 Apple is a completely different beast than 1985. Let alone the fact that Tim Cook has been Jobs' right hand man for over 15 years while Scully wasn't. This is an organization assembled from top to bottom by Steve Jobs himself. From the leadership to the structure to the culture to the processes, all Steve Jobs. Jobs even created internally the Apple University during his last few years.

To compare Apple today to the Scully Apple is a complete slap in the face to the mighty Steve Jobs you think was irreplaceable. It's just funny to me, people treat him like a God, but then slap him in the face when it comes to his ability to leave his creation in capable hands.

I'm pretty sure Jobs cared about it much more than you. And I'm pretty sure he thought much longer and harder about it than you have. And I'm pretty sure he knows Tim Cook and Jony Ive much better than you.

In all fairness, that's all well and good, until you weigh the products released prior to Jobs's death and after.

Clearly, as the article states, Steve "cleared everything", in other words, his taste, his preferences, his direction permeated every single aspect of Apple products.

The fact that he is no longer here to do that, and no two people are exactly the same and have the same taste and preferences, is starting to show. So, while the man was brilliant and an effective leader, his micro-managing resulted in him being indispensable. Apple and Steve were "one".

That said, this is an issue of personal preference. Many will say that Apple products are better than ever. Others will say there's been a decline in (perceived) quality. Your opinion will vary based on which side of the preference argument you fall into.

And to us, the consumers, the products are what matter. I could care less about Apple's internal structure or how efficiently or effectively the company is run. I don't work for, or are (directly) invested in Apple. If I perceive the product to be better than before, were cool. If I don't, we're not. Lately, it's been the latter.
 
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Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,147
31,204
That attention to small details and perfectionism died with iOS 7 and Jony Ive's train-wreck software "design"

You do realize that Greg Christie still overseas Human Interface at Apple? I doubt Ive held a gun to his head forcing him to implement something he didn't approve of.
 

ChrisTX

macrumors 68030
Dec 30, 2009
2,690
54
Texas
I don't remember that. I recall everyone wishing their blackberry could do that.

Honestly for a few years into the iPhones release, Blackberry was still doing really well. I know a few people that up until a year ago refused to give up their Blackberries.
 

mantan

macrumors 68000
Nov 2, 2009
1,743
1,041
DFW
Tell me about it. Crappy Windows Mobile could do it too, but don't let the youngling hear that those features were pretty standard on every smartphone.

I love how the iPhone changed the aesthetic, and gave users a REAL device that was easy to use, but the iPhone took all of 6 years to gain features that a Treo 600w and Palm TX had by default.

Yeah or things like cut, copy and paste or mms supports which iPhone users were told for years we didn't need (just send a pic as an email attachment) then rolled out as an innovative update that other phones had for years.
 

MrMickS

macrumors newbie
Apr 30, 2003
23
0
Where the Shadows lie
The fact that he is no longer here to do that, and no two people are exactly the same and have the same taste and preferences, is starting to show. So, while the man was brilliant and an effective leader, his micro-managing resulted in him being indispensable. Apple and Steve were "one".

In a way Apple have recognised this, and the benefits of having a single person sign off on design, by moving Ive into his current position. One of the key differences between Apple since the the NeXT reverse takeover was having a single gatekeeper to clear things rather than a committee.
 

penplotter

macrumors regular
Mar 23, 2014
173
0
I don't know, but to say that it's hard to see any other company paying that much attention to detail just means that such a person hasn't been outside.

Logitech makes some great keyboards and mice, the mice being much better than Apple's offerings IMHO.

HON makes some top notch office furniture with impeccable attention to detail.

AJA makes some of the best capture cards I've ever used, and the IOHD was may favorite real-time up/down/cross conversion box.

So Apple makes great stuff, but others do too. And I don't even want to start talking about the HP Z8xx workstations.

Guess who made the "Mighty Mouse"? Logitech.

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Click the first result:
google.com/search?q=Apple+Engineer+Recalls+the+iPhone's+Birth


Don't copy and paste the entire article, it's a copyright violation.


Don't avoid saying a simple "thank you" for my trying to help; it's a politeness violation
 

Karma*Police

macrumors 68030
Jul 15, 2012
2,514
2,850
Anyone who dismisses the lawsuit and iPhone as just another evolutionary product is being willfully ignorant and probably never created anything in their lives.
 
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