Still no USB 3.0 to Thunderbolt adapter?

marzer said:

Which is why Thunderbolt with its daisy chaining, dedicated controller per devices and ability to run multiple mass storage devices with little degradation in performance to anything in the chain, is much more desirable to USB for connecting boot and primary storage devices.

By the time all this wishing-for and shoulda-woulda-coulda's have been thoroughly belly-ached with no constructive outcome, its becomes pretty clear just how affordable and effective Thunderbolt is when employed for its intended purpose.

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I am talking what exists now.

Please point me to all of these thunderbolt drive enclosures I can put my SSD in. Not Raid enclosures. Not enclosures that come with a drive. A simple enclosure. Oh right, they do not exist yet! The current drives with TB connectors do not meet my needs either. They are usually in the 1TB-or-less range.

The enclosure at http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/MOTGTBH5T1.0/ is almost right if it were sold without the drive. The big problem is that it only has one TB port so I can not daisy chain something after it.

I am not following the whole discussion because frankly your request has been rather ambiguous... but I believe the Seagate GoFlex TB dock is the solution that is close to what you are looking for? A simple TB to SATA connector with no propriety connectors, and you can buy it without a drive. (I think).

And if you are looking for a 2 TB port solution for daisy chaining... you are inevitably walking into RAID enclosures. This is simple economic decision on the manufacturers' part. The cost of putting two thunderbolt controllers for just a single drive makes not much sense. They will make sure this tier of product is needed by the higher end professionals, which means possibility of RAID1/0 in real world applications.

Chancha said:

I am not following the whole discussion because frankly your request has been rather ambiguous... but I believe the Seagate GoFlex TB dock is the solution that is close to what you are looking for? A simple TB to SATA connector with no propriety connectors, and you can buy it without a drive. (I think).

And if you are looking for a 2 TB port solution for daisy chaining... you are inevitably walking into RAID enclosures. This is simple economic decision on the manufacturers' part. The cost of putting two thunderbolt controllers for just a single drive makes not much sense. They will make sure this tier of product is needed by the higher end professionals, which means possibility of RAID1/0 in real world applications.

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How is it ambiguous? There is a concrete product I said I wanted.

I am not looking for TB to sata. My voyager q could probably use it but nothing else could.

My current external drive configuration:

USB3 -> SSD (that takes nearly all the bandwidth without resource competition so figure the USB is maxed)
TB -> HHD external
TB -> firewire chain via adapter (voyager q and blu-ray)

Currently I am already maxed. I am working out options for what to do when I run into another must-have device. A TB to USB would allow me to move the firewire chain there (either with direct USB on a hub or via a USB to FW adapter) as well as having a second USB controller that will not be able to impact my boot drive.

KaraH said:

How is it ambiguous? There is a concrete product I said I wanted.

I am not looking for TB to sata. My voyager q could probably use it but nothing else could.

My current external drive configuration:

USB3 -> SSD (that takes nearly all the bandwidth without resource competition so figure the USB is maxed)
TB -> HHD external
TB -> firewire chain via adapter (voyager q and blu-ray)

Currently I am already maxed. I am working out options for what to do when I run into another must-have device. A TB to USB would allow me to move the firewire chain there (either with direct USB on a hub or via a USB to FW adapter) as well as having a second USB controller that will not be able to impact my boot drive.

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I would contend the Akitio Thunder dock would be a perfect solution for you: FireWire and USB 3.0 (also esata if you needed even more ways to hook up hard drives). Sure it's $250, but for that you are getting a lot more ports than just USB 3.0 that you apparently could take advantage of..... Just sayin'

I get it, you just want TB -> USB 3.0. I want someone to pay off my mortgage. Neither is happening. So either you put on your big boy/girl pants and buy something that will work (which there are MANY options), or stop complaining that "a simple solution" doesn't exist.....

EDIT: and the Seagate TB Desktop adapter would work fine for dropping your SSD on this allowing your USB 3.0 to be used by other devices and runs less than $150 last I checked. And it has TB pass thru.

KaraH said:

A hub is not the same thing as a bus.

Yes, I can go over to stables and buy a USB hub but that is splitting the bandwidth that goes to all devices. I do not want to do that. Since my boot drive is on the existing bus I am not about to put something on there that will fight with it for bandwidth.

The solution to that is a second bus. Which is what Apple should have given us with the new iMacs but did not.

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Of course not. What is it exactly you are trying to do?

Unless you are planning to RAID-0 several USB drives, each on an independent USB port, you aren't going to notice much degradation "sharing" the bandwidth via a hub.

I'm now curious what you may be looking for where each port will consume the available USB bandwidth. I may have to perform some tests on my side to see if there would actually be much difference in typical use cases.

I would say the only real world (professional) scenario where it makes any sense to leave a dedicated USB stream for single device, is in portable sound recording. Many of them are using a MBP booting windows where the interface is sometimes USB bus-bound, and that any other USB devices especially I/Os like external drives can cause DPC spikes, which can then cause an audio drop out / latency. Maybe 4K cine people also has such problem with their high bandwidth demand but in this case USB has other issues that make it not viable. For the average users, even sporting a boot system on an SSD through USB3 you are not likely to see a bottleneck, in fact the bigger problems are I/O errors leading to corrupted files, yanked USB cable due to it being supposedly a hot-plug port etc.

What I mean to say is, honestly, with your seemingly limited budget due to the limited setup of yours, I am guessing you are not using this as a professional workstation, therefore why go the long way to worry about a problem that isn't going to hurt your bottom line. Your research and the comments here can both confirm there is no simple solution to your "problem". If and when you are going to add that unnamed device into your TB chain, just make sure it has dual TB pass thru, so your FW dongle can hang there, leave the SSD on USB3 and that's it.

KaraH said:

I am talking what exists now.

Please point me to all of these thunderbolt drive enclosures I can put my SSD in. Not Raid enclosures. Not enclosures that come with a drive. A simple enclosure. Oh right, they do not exist yet! The current drives with TB connectors do not meet my needs either. They are usually in the 1TB-or-less range.

The enclosure at http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/MOTGTBH5T1.0/ is almost right if it were sold without the drive. The big problem is that it only has one TB port so I can not daisy chain something after it.

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Yes, so am I. If your needs are essential, upgrade to high speed TB enclosures and move your data over. Relegate your old drives to archive media, backups or just sell them. That's what I did to replace my old FW drives with higher speed TB enclosures. At the end of the daisy chain is a Seagate External Thunderbolt Adapter for Portable Drives loaded with an SSD as a boot drive. Only one TB port in use and all USB ports available for non-mass storage devices.

If your needs aren't essential then you are probably being unnecessarily concerned regarding availability of bandwidth. Even USB 3 with multiple devices on a single bus has plenty of bandwidth to ensure smooth operation of a boot SSD in a non critical environment.

LOL!

A limited system? The only reason I bought a new iMac rather than a new MP last year is due to issues with the new design. A few of my specs though...

27" 2013 iMac
3.5 GhZ i7
nvidia 780
24 GB ram
boot drive: 480 GB SSD (1/2 TB - 7% overage)
data drive: 3 GB HDD (480 GB of that as a daily clone of the SSD)
4 TB timemachine drive on a thunderbolt
blu-ray writer
voyager q for a THIRD level of backups

My current budget is a bit restricted due to issues beyond my control but when I buy a new machine I spec out something I plan to be happy with for several years. I also plan out future expansion so I can eke out more time if needed near upgrade time.

I see the problem now, because I (and I assume some others also) am confusing you as the OP, where he expressively stated he has a 2011 Mini. Which just dawned on me, it does not have USB3 but has a TB port thus a genuine need of TB>USB3.

Now looking at your set up it is indeed quite pimped out. One thing I can't tell is if you had BTO'd an internal SSD in the beginning when you bought the iMac, or like you say you are connecting an SSD (perhaps in an enclosure) via USB3? I am assuming the 3TB HDD is also internal (this can be a DIY dual drive job). You mentioned you have a FW chain that needs to be connected but it is not listed here… this is what I mean when I said your request is rather ambiguous, as your setup flow is never made very clear to us. I looked through the 3 pages of this post and still don't see how you have maxed out the I/Os. I am guessing the 3TB HDD is internal and SSD is ext. on USB3, first TB goes to TM drive, and the pass thru goes to FW dongle which connects your FW chain? If this is the case I see no problem at all with this set up, and you still have some USB3 ports and I think one TB port left unused?

Anyhow I don't have much more to offer, you seem to be quite informed anyway, and your comments are not particularly asking for advice as much as it is a rant of the lack of the TB>USB3 device that you specifically want. My last comment is that for all the trouble of dealing with an SSD externally, you may as well crack open the iMac and put it inside with the extra SATA connector inside.

Right, the 3 GB HDD is internal and the SSD is in a USB enclosure (too big for a BTO), the timemachine drive is via TB, and the blu-ray and voyager q are a firewire chain connected to the second TB via a dongle. The latter 2 have other ports though so I was working out how to connect everything if I added another device at some point. Since the SSD takes up roughly half of the theoretical usb bandwidth adding a second would more than max out the usb bus (especially if the new drive was faster) so the rest of the USB ports are for various low speed devices. Hence figuring out how I could maximize both of the thunderbolt ports.

A hub may be the best solution as it would have pass-through TB, the voyager off the sata, and the blu-ray off the USB. I am not sure which is the most annoying though: low speed USB (370 GB/s) or the fact that it would cost much more than I anticipated with a dongle.

As to knowing what I want, yeah. How many typical users call Apple, explain exactly what the problem and solution is (although lacking the exact thing to fix it, it was a bug in mavericks with trying to do more than 2 partitions on a boot drive) and get handed off to a supervisor? Who then agrees I know what I am doing but it is not a recommended configuration so do not tell the genius bar what I am up to?

If your next device have to sit inside the chain with no dual port pass thru, be it Thunderbolt or FW, only then you run into a real problem. Now you can even split thew 2 TB ports on the iMac, one for TB devices and the other for FW chain from the get go, to minimize overhead / some incompatible factor in either chain.

As the SSD via USB3 is the point that give you worries, frankly I am unsure how the iMac splits the bus load among its USB3 ports where leaving the other ports free would help anything. But anyway if I were you I would invest on a TB enclosure with dual port, dual controllers, dual slots. It may be expensive, it may cost more than you would like, but it is a sound investment that solves your problem. A TB hub or sorts is going to expand your number of connected devices, but it probably only helps in power supplying and cable management, not so much in speed or I/O reliability as the limiting factor is the bus on the iMac logic board itself.

This thread will go on forever with useless arguing.

There will be no thunderbolt-to-usb3 adapters.
I doubt one could be brought to market for under $100 retail.

For that much, one might as well get one of the existing thunderbolt "docks".
Look how long it took for THEM to "come to market".
And look how few there are of them, even today...

Fishrrman said:

This thread will go on forever with useless arguing.

There will be no thunderbolt-to-usb3 adapters.
I doubt one could be brought to market for under $100 retail.

For that much, one might as well get one of the existing thunderbolt "docks".
Look how long it took for THEM to "come to market".
And look how few there are of them, even today...

Click to expand...

I'm a big Romeo Void fan - "Never Say Never" (and the cover by QOTSA on "Rated R" is sweet...). I've been following this thread and a product proposal made by Kanex. I also have friends who work for Intel, and who like both of these which are in testing...
http://www.kanexlive.com/article/thunderbolt-adapters - I'm trying to get my hands on one of each. Sometime this summer. It isn't USB3 to TB, but I'll take TB to USB3 anyday... Get in touch with Kanex for USB3 to TB - they seem to be the go-to company that takes risks and gets product out.

campyguy said:

I'm a big Romeo Void fan - "Never Say Never" (and the cover by QOTSA on "Rated R" is sweet...). I've been following this thread and a product proposal made by Kanex. I also have friends who work for Intel, and who like both of these which are in testing...
http://www.kanexlive.com/article/thunderbolt-adapters - I'm trying to get my hands on one of each. Sometime this summer. It isn't USB3 to TB, but I'll take TB to USB3 anyday... Get in touch with Kanex for USB3 to TB - they seem to be the go-to company that takes risks and gets product out.

Click to expand...

Convert a USB controller port to Thunderbolt so Thunderbolt devices can be connected to a computer that does not have a Thunderbolt port?

I don't think so!

...but...

Produce a dongle that converts a Thunderbolt controller port on a computer to a USB 3.0 port, so that a USB 3.0 device can be connected to a computer that lacks USB 3.0? A subset of the several docks currently on the market.

Definitely possible, but not likely as the various eddy currents of this thread attempt to address.

I understand the OP's desire for such a dongle, and know it is possible. There just isn't enough impetus to invest the money to get a simple, cheap one out there. Or perhaps there is, and there are unresolved issues.

The Kanex combo Thunderbolt to USB 3.0/Ethernet goes one better, and exists in prototype form. I saw it back in January. It just needs to pass the gauntlet of tests that prove it is working reliably, then getting Thunderbolt certified, and priced accordingly. Then it will just be a matter of finding enough customers to make it worthwhile.

Many, many products never see the light of day - either due to technical issues that can't be resolved, or realization that the actual market just isn't large enough.

I've got a handful of nice products that only made it as far as the original small production run. If I ever want replacements, I would need to search ebay and other clearance centers to find them. And some of them were $$$ items from Apple that were on the market for a short period of time.

Good news kanex is coming in the summer. Taken from the page.

http://www.kanexlive.com/article/thunderbolt-adapters

Hello Thunderbolt fans! Thank you to everyone who voted for the next Kanex Thunderbolt adapter! We know you've been patiently anticipating the results and we want to tell you that a decision has been made. The winner is … both!

Since it’s announcement, we have received nearly 10,000 votes and we can’t thank you enough for your amazing support. With that said, the decision to make both adapters was easy.

Right now, both adapters are in the certification process with Intel. They have been redesigned with a sleeker look for better portability and are getting close to the start of production. We anticipate an estimated availability date of summer 2014.

Thank you again for your continued support, patience and feedback.

The Kanex Team - See more at: http://www.kanexlive.com/article/thunderbolt-adapters#sthash.0akoEffY.dpuf

I don't work for them just excited to see progress.

ivnj said:

Good news kanex is coming in the summer. Taken from the page.

http://www.kanexlive.com/article/thunderbolt-adapters

Hello Thunderbolt fans! Thank you to everyone who voted for the next Kanex Thunderbolt adapter! We know you've been patiently anticipating the results and we want to tell you that a decision has been made. The winner is … both!

Since it’s announcement, we have received nearly 10,000 votes and we can’t thank you enough for your amazing support. With that said, the decision to make both adapters was easy.

Right now, both adapters are in the certification process with Intel. They have been redesigned with a sleeker look for better portability and are getting close to the start of production. We anticipate an estimated availability date of summer 2014.

Thank you again for your continued support, patience and feedback.

The Kanex Team - See more at: http://www.kanexlive.com/article/thunderbolt-adapters#sthash.0akoEffY.dpuf

I don't work for them just excited to see progress.

Click to expand...

I hope kanex moved faster than than Sonnet....

paulrbeers said:

I hope kanex moved faster than than Sonnet....

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Faster??

I have a 2011 MBP and I've beefed it up (RAM, SSD+HDD, fresh battery). The only thing it's missing is USB3 support. Still looking for a cheap and simple TB to USB3 adapter. I hope Kanex will do.
There's no way I'm buying new MBP any time soon. Mine still rocks.

.max said:

I have a 2011 MBP and I've beefed it up (RAM, SSD+HDD, fresh battery). The only thing it's missing is USB3 support. Still looking for a cheap and simple TB to USB3 adapter. I hope Kanex will do.
There's no way I'm buying new MBP any time soon. Mine still rocks.

Click to expand...

Check out the CalDigit dock for $199. You'll get 3 USB 3.0 ports, plus the ability to add a second display. Dunno what the Kanex will cost, but the CalDigit should be the better value overall.

.max said:

Still looking for a cheap and simple TB to USB3 adapter.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're expecting that the Caldigit, Startech and Elgato docks (which look suspiciously like the same thing in different boxes) don't provide.

The first thing that will goon any 'cheaper' device is the second Thunderbolt port for daisy-chaining, which is a major dealbreaker if you have a 2011 MBP or an Air with only a single TB Port that also doubles as your only external display connection.

BeatCrazy said:

Check out the CalDigit dock for $199.
You'll get 3 USB 3.0 ports, plus the ability to add a second display. Dunno what the Kanex will cost, but the CalDigit should be the better value overall.

Click to expand...

Agreed, but clarification on the second display thing: The dock's HDMI port means you can attach a HDMI or DVI display and another Thunderbolt device - good news for 2013 MBP and Air owners. However, the dock can't drive two external displays unless one of them is a Thunderbolt display.

.max said:

I have a 2011 MBP and I've beefed it up (RAM, SSD+HDD, fresh battery). The only thing it's missing is USB3 support. Still looking for a cheap and simple TB to USB3 adapter.

Click to expand...

theluggage said:

I'm not sure what you're expecting that the Caldigit, Startech and Elgato docks (which look suspiciously like the same thing in different boxes) don't provide.

Click to expand...

It's quite obvious what .max is looking for. A cheap and simple TB to USB3 adapter. What's the confusion? Very clear request. Kanex: $80, USB3 connection. These others: ~$200 or more, lots of different connections.

theluggage said:

The first thing that will goon any 'cheaper' device is the second Thunderbolt port for daisy-chaining, which is a major dealbreaker if you have a 2011 MBP or an Air with only a single TB Port that also doubles as your only external display connection.

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Again, go back to .max's request. Any mention of daisy chaining? External monitors? Or for that matter FW 800, mic/headphone ports, or any other connection available through Caldigit et al. devices? I don't see any "deal" that's being "broken." Could it be possible that some users (specifically 2011 Macs) would just like to hook up a USB3 device... and that's it?

Good grief. Reading.

Drewski said:

It's quite obvious what .max is looking for. A cheap and simple TB to USB3 adapter. What's the confusion? Very clear request. Kanex: $80, USB3 connection. These others: ~$200 or more, lots of different connections.



Again, go back to .max's request. Any mention of daisy chaining? External monitors? Or for that matter FW 800, mic/headphone ports, or any other connection available through Caldigit et al. devices? I don't see any "deal" that's being "broken." Could it be possible that some users (specifically 2011 Macs) would just like to hook up a USB3 device... and that's it?

Good grief. Reading.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Two additional monitor support (if one is an Apple TBolt Display) adds zero value for a laptop that will not serve that role (as if a large percentage do...) Same goes for HDMI and more audio breakouts on this particular late 2011 MBP in my office. Ethernet? Have it already. Basically, if you have a 2011 it's very useful. If your Mac has USB3 then not.

Two big points people seem to be missing, among others. First, it's an adapter, not a dock. By design it's meant to have the potential function of being whipped out for a backup and then put back in the bag. (Replug external monitor if desired. ) Second, it requires no TBolt cable. So people shouldn't be comparing the price of the docks that don't supply a cable to the $80 shipped Kanex.

Ordered one, should ship tomorrow. If it pushes USB3 like it says it does (full, not like the Belkin half speed) it's well worth it for me.

What's not to understand? : )

I don't think it's possible. Thunderbolt is designed to be a hot-pluggable PCI-E extension. USB doesn't have access to this level of hardware.

oatman13 said:

I don't think it's possible. Thunderbolt is designed to be a hot-pluggable PCI-E extension. USB doesn't have access to this level of hardware.

Click to expand...

A bit of an odd statement about a product that exists (and has been shipping) and works.

rboy505 said:

A bit of an odd statement about a product that exists (and has been shipping) and works.

Click to expand...

He's talking about the original topic of this thread... of a USB 3.0 *TO* Thunderbolt Adaptor...

What you have with Kanex is a Thunderbolt to USB/eSATA adaptor...