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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:34 PM   #26
gkarris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
It'll power some nice games in that new Apple TV
Not to mention iWork, Photoshop, and many productivity apps...

Apple's new "nano computer"...

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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:34 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
It'll power some nice games in that new Apple TV
Yes, that would be cool!
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:35 PM   #28
Menneisyys2
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Originally Posted by milo View Post
People constantly insist that iOS devices don't need any more ram, regardless of actual real world performance. Seriously, now people are pretending nobody has ever said that?
Yeah! Let's see what they say now that I've presented them a quote from a very well-known forum member (with 4400+ posts) in the iOS / Mac forums over at DPReview...
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milo View Post
People constantly insist that iOS devices don't need any more ram, regardless of actual real world performance. Seriously, now people are pretending nobody has ever said that?
iOS would definitely benefit from 2 GB of RAM.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:37 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
We were specifically talking about the way in which iOS 6 and iOS 7 runs apps. (Which is to say, one at a time with some exceptions.) More RAM will obviously be needed once iOS expands its capabilities in future versions.

You apparently missed half of the conversation.
I'm afraid it's you that missed half of it. A citation from the original article:

"The other problem I see is that although Cyclone is incredibly forward looking, it launched in devices with only 1GB of RAM. It's very likely that you'll run into memory limits before you hit CPU performance limits if you plan on keeping your device for a long time."


That is, it's the (meager, particularly in 64-bit devices) size of the RAM that is the bottleneck, and not the speed of it - contrary to what "BaldiMac" stated.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menneisyys2 View Post
Wait! I thought 1GB is more than sufficient and there would be no point in having 2GB of RAM in any iDevice! (At least Apple fanboys state this...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menneisyys2 View Post
"No, the current iPad and iPhones have 1 gig because that's the current sweet spot of cost versus performance. More memory is not free. Doubling it to 2 gig won't make a huge difference, except in very specific situations."
Those are not even remotely the same arguments.

Why bother quoting someone when it doesn't match what you claimed?
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxeshredder View Post
iOS would definitely benefit from 2 GB of RAM.
No kidding. And that has been the case since the iPad 2 if not longer. The A7 just makes it more of a blatantly weak link (I guess some take issue with calling that a "bottleneck").
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:38 PM   #33
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Not a surprising discovery... The A6 is still not giving me a bottleneck experience at all.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:38 PM   #34
Menneisyys2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxeshredder View Post
iOS would definitely benefit from 2 GB of RAM.
Exactly. Far less frequent Safari page reloads (and, under iOS versions prior to 7.1, crashes); you wouldn't need to constantly restart (which takes at least half a minute each time) memory-hungry top games like XCOM: Enemy unknown if you minimize them to quickly check your mail / look at something in Safari etc.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:39 PM   #35
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ok so i think we can all agree that CPU performance on the mobile platform is as good as it needs to be for the coming years.

We don't need to see another graph on how much faster the CPU is on the next iPhone during the keynote, let's concentrate on battery life.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:40 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Menneisyys2 View Post
Wait! I thought 1GB is more than sufficient and there would be no point in having 2GB of RAM in any iDevice! (At least Apple fanboys state this...)
You do realise that we are individuals with our own opinions, and there is no consensus on the amount of RAM that is adequate, so lumping us into a group of 'fanboys' that think one way makes for a poor argument. There are plenty of us that consider 1GB insufficient with the 64bit architecture.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:41 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
Those are not even remotely the same arguments.

Why bother quoting someone when it doesn't match what you claimed?



You meant to say this to that other poster, not me. I never said anything about speed or size in my post.
You're wrong. You asked me for a proof of Apple fanboys' usual Apple-defence of stating 1GB is sufficient and iDevices wouldn't really profit for more RAM. I did present you an example of this from an otherwise well-regarded, helpful (but seriously biased for Apple) guy with thousands of posts (read: he isn't a "noname" over at the Apple forums of DPR.)
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:42 PM   #38
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:43 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohbrilliance View Post
You do realise that we are individuals with our own opinions, and there is no consensus on the amount of RAM that is adequate, so lumping us into a group of 'fanboys' that think one way makes for a poor argument. There are plenty of us that consider 1GB insufficient with the 64bit architecture.
I consider everybody fanboys that, just to justify Apple's not adding more memory, state iDevices' 1GB of RAM is the "sweet spot". It certainly isn't, as has been proved by tons of other mobile devices having 2 or even 3GGB's of RAM and still not showing any adverse effect (e.g., unbearable battery life) resulting from the increased RAM.

EDIT: BTW, the article this MR article is talking about also states it's the amount of RAM that is a serious bottleneck in current iDevices. Let me cite the original article again:

". The other problem I see is that although Cyclone is incredibly forward looking, it launched in devices with only 1GB of RAM. It's very likely that you'll run into memory limits before you hit CPU performance limits if you plan on keeping your device for a long time."


http://www.anandtech.com/show/7910/a...cture-detailed
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:44 PM   #40
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An amazing processor crippled by RAM.

I'm not upgrading from my 4S & iPad 2 until there's 2GB of RAM on an iPhone & iPad.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:44 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
It'll power some nice games in that new Apple TV
Hopefully it turns the ATV into something that will be essentially a desktop for your TV.

It can pair with a BT keyboard and mouse, just make an OS that will turn the ATV loose into a small desktop for the living room while being a TV/media device at heart.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:44 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menneisyys2 View Post
You're wrong. You asked me for a proof of Apple fanboys' usual Apple-defence of stating 1GB is sufficient and iDevices wouldn't really profit for more RAM. I did present you an example of this from an otherwise well-regarded, helpful (but seriously biased for Apple) guy with thousands of posts (read: he isn't a "noname" over at the Apple forums of DPR.)
You really can't tell the difference between "there would be no point in having 2GB of RAM in any iDevice" and "we think 1 GB is a good compromise at this time"?
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menneisyys2 View Post
You're wrong. You asked me for a proof of Apple fanboys' usual Apple-defence of stating 1GB is sufficient and iDevices wouldn't really profit for more RAM. I did present you an example of this from an otherwise well-regarded, helpful (but seriously biased for Apple) guy with thousands of posts (read: he isn't a "noname" over at the Apple forums of DPR.)
You claimed that "Fanboys" said that iDevices don't need 2 GB.

That guy is arguing that the trade-off isn't worth it. When it comes to price and battery life, "what's it cost in money and resources?" is a valid discussion.

Not even close to the being the same.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:46 PM   #44
Count Blah
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1 Gig of RAM, with how much taken up by the OS itself?

I'm sure we'll see more, as soon as Apple opens up the change purse and grants us the ability to pay obscene prices for more than 1 gig of RAM
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Last edited by Count Blah; Mar 31, 2014 at 06:53 PM.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:46 PM   #45
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Besides insisting that iOS devices all have enough ram, my other favorite argument is that nobody should ever quit iOS apps since they use no ram or other resources and quitting makes no difference to performance.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:48 PM   #46
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:51 PM   #47
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and when you are thinking we are 5 months away from the AGAIN first quad core 64 bit desktop class in a smartphone
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:51 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milo View Post
Besides insisting that iOS devices all have enough ram,
What's "enough"?

Quote:
my other favorite argument is that nobody should ever quit iOS apps since they use no ram or other resources and quitting makes no difference to performance.
Who has said that iOS apps use no RAM?
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:55 PM   #49
Menneisyys2
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Originally Posted by milo View Post
Besides insisting that iOS devices all have enough ram, my other favorite argument is that nobody should ever quit iOS apps since they use no ram or other resources and quitting makes no difference to performance.
Well, according to my latest, very strict experiments (I'm a die-hard iOS programmer and have developed tons of AppStore apps & JB tweaks), just minimizing (and not manually killing) apps under iOS7 indeed doesn't result in stability problems. (Unless you minimize apps that do something active in the background and, consequently, may remain in the memory longer than fully inactive apps - VoIP, some kind of GPS access etc.)

The only apps that, before allocating memory for themselves, suffer from this are apps that actively check for the amount of free RAM (via, say, host_statistics() calls) before memory allocations. They will think they have little free RAM and, consequently, may opt for a reduced-quality content presentation. But this isn't the way one should code - under iOS7, there is absolutely no point in making host_statistics() calls to find out how much free memory an app may use. Any apps depending on it are flawed as this value doesn't have the value of how much memory can (automatically) be freed when the app tries to allocate additional memory.

This only applies to iOS7 - I haven't done the same experiments under iOS versions prior to 7.

EDIT: I've posted a Safari-specific addition to http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...3&postcount=61

Last edited by Menneisyys2; Mar 31, 2014 at 05:14 PM.
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 04:55 PM   #50
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If Apple goes on to switch from Intel to ARM on the Mac, I hope it doesn't happen for a very long time. I don't think I can handle another architecture change so soon.
Start your therapy now. It's coming Spring 2016, and will be Fabed in Malta, NY.
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