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Makosuke

macrumors 604
Aug 15, 2001
6,663
1,244
The Cool Part of CA, USA
Obviously people on here, and at sites like touch arcade, are in a tiny minority as compared to the market as a whole. I think all of us that are here can agree that we as a small demographic, would like to pay a one time up front fee for games and be able to play them outright afterwards.
"Tiny minority" and "small demographic" are very relative terms. Roughly six months ago, Grand Theft Auto V--a very premium game with a hefty up-front price tag of upwards of $50--managed to sell 11 million copies for a gross of $800 million in 24 hours.

By my estimation, that's not exactly a small market. Yes, 11 million copies isn't a big number, percentage-wise, compared to the 500 million people with App Store accounts. And no, a AAA multi-platform big-screen game with a quarter-billion-dollar budget isn't directly comparable to a smartphone game, particularly a freemium timewaster.

But the fact is there is clearly a sizable market for "traditional", non-freemium, non-ad-supported, pay-up-front-for-a-rich-experience games. Notably, if you find a market and have a reasonable price, you don't need to sell anywhere near as many copies to turn a profit as if you're using an ad-based or freemium model.
 

whooleytoo

macrumors 604
Aug 2, 2002
6,607
716
Cork, Ireland.
Are you suggesting it's not true? The free charts have 10x the downloads as the paid charts. I think it's pretty obviously true. A better criticism for the study is 'duh'

arn

The word "prefer" in the title is interesting though.

I've downloaded many free games. I play - almost exclusively - the games I've paid for. (Because they're better and generally not made tedious though advertising/spam.)

As far as the charts are concerned I "prefer" free games, but I really, really don't. Free games are just easy to try and trash.
 

malexandria

Suspended
Mar 25, 2009
971
427
Shocking

People prefer free? That is shocking news! Personally I can't stand the fremium model. I'd rather pay for something and get the full experience than some gimped game that is going to constantly bug the crap out of me to purchase additional items.
 

unplugme71

macrumors 68030
May 20, 2011
2,827
754
Earth
I don't mind paying $5 or even $10 if the game is really good with a solid story line. What I don't like is the outrageous pricing scams they pull with in-app purchases. Some companies will rape you over $250 on a game if you combine them all.

If $10 isn't enough I'm not buying it. On the other hand if you release one that's free I wouldn't mind watching a 30sec video ad to earn stuff within the game.
 

MyopicPaideia

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2011
2,155
980
Sweden
"Tiny minority" and "small demographic" are very relative terms. Roughly six months ago, Grand Theft Auto V--a very premium game with a hefty up-front price tag of upwards of $50--managed to sell 11 million copies for a gross of $800 million in 24 hours.

By my estimation, that's not exactly a small market. Yes, 11 million copies isn't a big number, percentage-wise, compared to the 500 million people with App Store accounts. And no, a AAA multi-platform big-screen game with a quarter-billion-dollar budget isn't directly comparable to a smartphone game, particularly a freemium timewaster.

But the fact is there is clearly a sizable market for "traditional", non-freemium, non-ad-supported, pay-up-front-for-a-rich-experience games. Notably, if you find a market and have a reasonable price, you don't need to sell anywhere near as many copies to turn a profit as if you're using an ad-based or freemium model.

Listen, I get it and I agree with you - 80-20 rule applies - 80% of your revenues from 20% of your customers. We are the lion's share of those 20% for the premium priced really good games.

But I mean all the big game studios like EA are going freemium, even with very mainstream franchises like FIFA - it is the low hanging fruit, so it will continue to grow.

I am not personally worried that the market for premium priced games will ever go away, there will always be a large enough market that good stuff will still come out. The problem is that the freemium market will overtake it if it hasn't already, so the majority (whether that be 51-99%) of the money to be made will be freemium, unfortunately for us.
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
2,908
Mobile gamers, noooo!

Thankfully it seems isolated to mobile only. Pokemon X and Y, full-priced retail and download games for the 3DS became the best selling Pokemon title. So in 2013 even with freemium, F2P and 69p games, a £40 grand adventure can still do better than it ever has.
 

ornulf

macrumors newbie
Apr 1, 2014
8
4
Not sure about MLB app but most of the top grossing apps pictured in the article have NOTHING to do with ads. It is just completely wrong to suggest that there is any relationship between apps and highest grossing apps.
 

KanosWRX

macrumors 6502
Jul 14, 2008
417
396
This is why the cell phone gaming industry sucks for the most part... you want free games you get crap like angry birds and candy crush!
 

JackieInCo

Suspended
Jul 18, 2013
5,178
1,601
Colorado
I would rather pay for an app then get ads. I hate ads so much that I have an adblocker on both of my iPads and my 5S. It blocks ads in apps as well.
 

optophobia

macrumors 6502a
Oct 26, 2007
877
24
Hudson MA
......... with a hefty up-front price tag of upwards of $50--managed to sell 11 million copies for a gross of $800 million in 24 hours.

By my estimation, that's not exactly a small market. ..........

By my estimation, it would be pretty hard to gross $800 million from 11 million $50 items.
 

thisma

macrumors member
Sep 9, 2008
39
5
Return Apps

If people could easily return apps that suck for a full, or nearly full, refund then they would be willing to buy apps they would otherwise not, and spend more on other apps.

Since you don't have to go anywhere to buy or return an app, the return period could be short: like 1 hour. Something like 2 days would probably encourage people to actually keep more apps though; and that would be my preference as a developer.

I'd like to even return free apps so that dumb ones don't clutter up my purchase history.
 
Last edited:

arkmannj

macrumors 68000
Oct 1, 2003
1,728
513
UT
Android allows you to get a refund within 15 minutes.

That is a nice option, but in many cases 10 minutes simply would not be enough time to make a fair judgement. I would still prefer the ad supported trial, then be able to pay for the ad free version.

(For my personality leave myself a 5 minute buffer on the front/back of buying the app becsue I wouldn't want to risk crossing the 15 minute line. leaving me really only 10 minutes of effective use.)
 

Makosuke

macrumors 604
Aug 15, 2001
6,663
1,244
The Cool Part of CA, USA
I am not personally worried that the market for premium priced games will ever go away, there will always be a large enough market that good stuff will still come out. The problem is that the freemium market will overtake it if it hasn't already, so the majority (whether that be 51-99%) of the money to be made will be freemium, unfortunately for us.
If anything, though, it seems that that would work to the advantage of smaller companies making quality, premium, pay-up-front games targeted at a "hard core" market. If, say, 95% of the games are being targeted at freemium while 14% of customers want a high-quality pay-up-front experience (14% who are hungry for a better experience and quite willing to pay for it at that), then making a game for that demographic is going to be particularly lucrative due to the relatively small amount of competition.

Simple math--if you're competing with 5% of the games for 14% of the market (and a lucrative 14%, at that), then you'd be a fool not to get into it. If, of course, you have the ability to make something worthwhile and not just freemium sucker-bait.

Because let's not forget that a large amount of freemium games are simplistic garbage designed entirely to sucker in the low-attention-span phone user when they get bored for five minutes, then attempt to get them somehow addicted using a simplistic mechanic so that they'll buy into your system. Nuanced, deep freemium games exist, but they're a tiny fraction of the market, and the business model, so far as I can tell, by its very nature does not scale well to a deeper experience--it requires simplicity and addiction, rather than a beginning-to-end experience cycle.

By my estimation, it would be pretty hard to gross $800 million from 11 million $50 items.
Which is why, if you read my post, I said "upwards of $50". The $800 million figure is a hard number, very, very widely quoted in the media, and is correct. The 11.2 million copies number I got from an estimate in the Wikipedia article which got the figure from this IGN article referencing the Guiness World Records the game holds. The precise numbers are $815.7 million and 11.21 million copies in 24 hours.

US MSRP for the base game was $59.99, so I assume the difference was due to a combination of countries with higher MSRP and people springing for either the special edition at $79.99 or the collector's edition, for $149.99.
 

MyopicPaideia

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2011
2,155
980
Sweden
If anything, though, it seems that that would work to the advantage of smaller companies making quality, premium, pay-up-front games targeted at a "hard core" market. If, say, 95% of the games are being targeted at freemium while 14% of customers want a high-quality pay-up-front experience (14% who are hungry for a better experience and quite willing to pay for it at that), then making a game for that demographic is going to be particularly lucrative due to the relatively small amount of competition.

Simple math--if you're competing with 5% of the games for 14% of the market (and a lucrative 14%, at that), then you'd be a fool not to get into it. If, of course, you have the ability to make something worthwhile and not just freemium sucker-bait.

Because let's not forget that a large amount of freemium games are simplistic garbage designed entirely to sucker in the low-attention-span phone user when they get bored for five minutes, then attempt to get them somehow addicted using a simplistic mechanic so that they'll buy into your system. Nuanced, deep freemium games exist, but they're a tiny fraction of the market, and the business model, so far as I can tell, by its very nature does not scale well to a deeper experience--it requires simplicity and addiction, rather than a beginning-to-end experience cycle.

Totally agree, that is in essence the 80/20 I mentioned that rule you describe above.

Everyone knows that 99% of the App store is filled with crap. A vast majority of the freemium games are targeted at the teen and sub-teen market (or their cognitive equivalent ;)) who are using daddy's/mommy's money to feed their gaming habit.

Most of the people in the demographic you and I are a part of are at least mid-late twenties who remember a time before mobile gaming and appreciate a full game experience and are willing to pay up front for it. We are a gold mine to these developers, just as you say.
 

apple rocks!

macrumors newbie
Apr 2, 2014
14
0
I don't understand.. if I believe the comments on MR, idevices are for rich folk who have the means and desire to pay good money for quality products and services.... android devices are for poor folk who like to pirate software, love free stuff cos.they are cheap....which goes hand in hand with the quality of apps that FREE gets you, and wp8 devices are for loons... Have I missed something...
 

bball1708

macrumors newbie
Jun 12, 2013
8
0
Returned an app, got my refund but the app is still on my MB. Should i keep it or try to delete it? yay or nahhhhh?
 

sixrom

macrumors 6502a
Nov 13, 2013
709
1
People are so disappointing, aren't they?

They're also very bad, uneducated money managers. Drawn in by the mere presence of the word "free" they download the game then mindlessly rack up charge after charge for additional content. Freemium simply illustrates how little people pay attention until after they've spent the money. Even then that doesn't stop them from continuously spending money to play a game which is nothing more than a money pit / time sink.

Don't get me wrong, games have their place, yet are easily abused as they can be an addiction like other addictions. Often played by those who cannot afford the expense or wasted time they're living pay check to pay check and are the same ones that must sell their current phone to have money so they can buy the new one. An American phenom and sad state of affairs. Witness the massive success of Master Card & Visa.
 
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