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icanhazapple

macrumors 6502a
Feb 26, 2009
578
1,246
new build, same problems

this is why I think Microsoft will win in the long run if they manage to offer quality materials w/1st party hardware - Apple just doesn't understand software QA. Nor do they care. It would be kind of comical if it wasn't so sad.

I'm running Windows 8.1 on my Macbook Air and I really enjoy it. I might get a Mac mini for dev work, but I'm strongly considering whatever version of the Surface Pro is out in a year or two during my next hardware refresh. 10.6' is small, but 90% of the time I'm at a desk with an external monitor.
 

Woyzeck

macrumors 6502
Nov 2, 2012
441
499
Apple just doesn't understand software QA. Nor do they care. It would be kind of comical if it wasn't so sad.

This !

I just don't understand why Apple is so bad with software quality in general. I mean they're able to create some of the systems with the highest user experience available, but in general terms of general software quality they're really awful.

Bugs don't get fixed for ages, features that work on one platform (i.e. Exchange integration on iOS) don't work on another platform (OSX) and nobody knows anything about when, how and if things will get fixed.

I mean c'mon, we can't use our Macs in a corporate environment without SMB, and all other OS-platforms are able to deliver this feature, why is it so difficult for a company that's sitting on a huge stack of money to fix this ?

Microsoft is so much better in terms of platform reliability and enterprise support.
 

gumblecosby

macrumors 6502
Jun 22, 2010
298
6
Some of us already using a third party 2D dock (thanks to a brilliant member here) which smoothens the MC animation... :p

I would suggest anyone that is afflicted with the choppy MC animation to feedback Apple to return us the option for 2D dock...

You get the same performance either way. Both that defaults tweak and cDock are just transparent docks. The only difference is your console won't be riddled with SIMBL messages if you just disable the mirror effect and not use cDock.
 

star-affinity

macrumors 68000
Nov 14, 2007
1,931
1,221
Microsoft is so much better in terms of platform reliability and enterprise support.

Don't know if I agree they're better in terms of platform reliability –*I work full time with both OS X and Windows in an enterprise environment and there are more issues with the Windows 7 based computers with their Windows updates that takes forever or simply get stuck. The Maces aren't perfect but generally there are less issues with the OS itself I think (SMB support excluded perhaps, but it's okay now with OS X 10.9.2 I think although improvements are welcome).

I think Macs work pretty well in an enterprise environment these days. The little things we have that require Windows (time reporting system wants Internet Explorer 8 or 9 as the latest browser to work) we use Terminal Server.
 

r.harris1

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2012
2,190
12,628
Denver, Colorado, USA
This !

I just don't understand why Apple is so bad with software quality in general. I mean they're able to create some of the systems with the highest user experience available, but in general terms of general software quality they're really awful.

While its not clear what you mean by "bad with software quality in general", I'm not sure that Apple is any worse than a Microsoft or any of the various Linux distros. What objectively stands out to you compared to other systems?

Bugs don't get fixed for ages, features that work on one platform (i.e. Exchange integration on iOS) don't work on another platform (OSX) and nobody knows anything about when, how and if things will get fixed.

Its never clear when Microsoft will fix Windows bugs either, is it? Most companies don't publish an extensive bug list with release dates on fixes.

I mean c'mon, we can't use our Macs in a corporate environment without SMB, and all other OS-platforms are able to deliver this feature, why is it so difficult for a company that's sitting on a huge stack of money to fix this ?

Because a "huge stack of money" isn't going to help anyone fix software. Adding more people to a software project won't make it better or make it get done faster. And besides, investors would get somewhat testy if they started taking that cash and hiring more people. They want it for themselves ;)

Microsoft is so much better in terms of platform reliability and enterprise support.

I don't notice that myself - I develop software on both platforms. They both have their ups and downs.
 

Woyzeck

macrumors 6502
Nov 2, 2012
441
499
Its never clear when Microsoft will fix Windows bugs either, is it? Most companies don't publish an extensive bug list with release dates on fixes.
...
I don't notice that myself - I develop software on both platforms. They both have their ups and downs.

While I agree that both platforms have their ups and downs I'm honesty disappointed by Apples software quality for the reasons that I already stated.

Simple things that are mission critical to many enterprise users like Exchange connectivity - which works perfect under iOS - are not working well under OSX since years. The same applies to SMB where Apple promised a solution for 10.9.2, but it's still broken. C'mon, it's Samba and this works perfectly under all operating systems that I use daily (Windows XP/7/8 and Linux). Why can't Apple just get it fixed ?

Other simple and so obvious bugs (i.e. renaming an event in iPhoto) are in their software since years and it seems that no one takes care about it. They just invest in functionality that supports them to deliver new features, but they neglect existing stuff.

And yes, Microsoft does a better job here. Their platform - while not looking as nice as OSX - does not contain such stupid bugs (Office for Mac is something different - a piece of crap).
 

MikhailT

macrumors 601
Nov 12, 2007
4,582
1,325
this is why I think Microsoft will win in the long run if they manage to offer quality materials w/1st party hardware - Apple just doesn't understand software QA. Nor do they care. It would be kind of comical if it wasn't so sad.

I'm running Windows 8.1 on my Macbook Air and I really enjoy it. I might get a Mac mini for dev work, but I'm strongly considering whatever version of the Surface Pro is out in a year or two during my next hardware refresh. 10.6' is small, but 90% of the time I'm at a desk with an external monitor.

Microsoft has won the desktop OS war for a long time, they're not in any danger of losing it any time soon. I'm honestly considering grabbing the upcoming third generation Surface Pro because of Apple's mistakes.

Apple's QA has gone down the crapper since they've kept switching teams between iOS/OS X. I've been with them for a long time, they were reliable, especially up to Snow Leopard. At that time, Microsoft pissed me off with bad releases such as Me and Vista. XP was kinda ok but not enough to take me away from OS X. W7 was great but again, not enough to convince me.

Apple's messy Lion, ML, and iOS 7.0 releases are what's pulling me away, not Windows.

I have less problems with Windows 8.1 in a VM than I do with Mavericks on my rMBP. I'm putting aside the design issues with Windows. I'm very impressed with what Microsoft has done in terms of producing a very quick and lightweight OS, especially if you just use the desktop mode all the time in Windows 8.1. It is noticeably light on RAM, CPU, and everything.

I can no longer say that OS X is better. It is just heavier, bloated, and slightly slower with all the animations involved. I do see many instabilities in the last two years starting with Lion, especially on rMBPs. Mavericks was a good release. I'm hoping they'll do a better job with 10.10 but there's only so much I can put up with.

This !

I just don't understand why Apple is so bad with software quality in general. I mean they're able to create some of the systems with the highest user experience available, but in general terms of general software quality they're really awful.

Bugs don't get fixed for ages, features that work on one platform (i.e. Exchange integration on iOS) don't work on another platform (OSX) and nobody knows anything about when, how and if things will get fixed.

I mean c'mon, we can't use our Macs in a corporate environment without SMB, and all other OS-platforms are able to deliver this feature, why is it so difficult for a company that's sitting on a huge stack of money to fix this ?

Microsoft is so much better in terms of platform reliability and enterprise support.

Like one guy already say, it has nothing to do with money. You can't throw money at a problem and expect it to be fixed.

You need a lot of reliable and quality software engineers to work together in a harmony.

Apple's constantly switching teams between OS X and iOS development is not helping them, it's causing the problem. They need to start hiring more folks, they're too slow at everything.

Microsoft is already catching up very quickly in producing annual releases, better ones too. Their WP 8.1 release is very impressive and the work they're doing on Windows 8.1 Update 1 and upcoming one is great. This is the area where Apple needs to catch up.

Don't even get me started on Apple's work with crappy web services.
 

r.harris1

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2012
2,190
12,628
Denver, Colorado, USA
...
Their platform - while not looking as nice as OSX - does not contain such stupid bugs.

I've had huge problems getting my system stable after upgrading to 8.1 at work. Maybe I should run it in a VM :D

Mavericks has been a remarkably stable OS, very, very fast for me in my various development endeavors. It sounds like its a good thing I've never needed Samba for anything.

(Office for Mac is something different - a piece of crap).

I definitely agree. But because OS X has never been terrific with Exchange, it's mostly necessary for me.
 

ItWasNotMe

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2012
439
304
...
Other simple and so obvious bugs ...

Add 'features' and I totally agree, like no process crash reporting if, e.g., iTunes is running !!

From the console log

"<time> spindump[<process id>]: <non-responsive process I force quit> didn't gather any samples due to audio running"

Exit iTunes, try again and an error report gets generated.

Wonder how many error reports they miss?
 

andycarver

macrumors member
Feb 11, 2012
71
47
QLD, Australia
A fix for SMB 2 perhaps?

----------

I've had huge problems getting my system stable after upgrading to 8.1 at work. Maybe I should run it in a VM :D

Mavericks has been a remarkably stable OS, very, very fast for me in my various development endeavors. It sounds like its a good thing I've never needed Samba for anything.



I definitely agree. But because OS X has never been terrific with Exchange, it's mostly necessary for me.

Nothing wrong with exchange in OS X.
Use the apple apps and they work great. Outlook is a bad experience. Bugs.
 

r.harris1

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2012
2,190
12,628
Denver, Colorado, USA
A fix for SMB 2 perhaps?

----------



Nothing wrong with exchange in OS X.
Use the apple apps and they work great. Outlook is a bad experience. Bugs.

Interesting. I've found exchange in OS X to be not as stable or consistent as I would like. Probably depends on the corporate set up. Agreed that Outlook is a bad experience, but I do find it relatively consistent.
 

Woyzeck

macrumors 6502
Nov 2, 2012
441
499
Nothing wrong with exchange in OS X.
Use the apple apps and they work great. Outlook is a bad experience. Bugs.

At least in our corporate setup I can't access calendar nor email without a VPN connection, while this works perfectly under iOS. OSX doesn't implement all APIs that Exchange provides, while iOS does.
 

thermodynamic

Suspended
May 3, 2009
1,341
1,192
USA
Don't know if I agree they're better in terms of platform reliability –*I work full time with both OS X and Windows in an enterprise environment and there are more issues with the Windows 7 based computers with their Windows updates that takes forever or simply get stuck. The Maces aren't perfect but generally there are less issues with the OS itself I think (SMB support excluded perhaps, but it's okay now with OS X 10.9.2 I think although improvements are welcome).

I think Macs work pretty well in an enterprise environment these days. The little things we have that require Windows (time reporting system wants Internet Explorer 8 or 9 as the latest browser to work) we use Terminal Server.

How many computers in that environment?

Standardized or hodgepodge of brands, GPUs, other peripherals, etc?

Are they all patched on a uniform, regular basis?

Windows has its quirks but so does OS X, and Apple does appear to be focusing more on iOS.

And Windows' version of Office is far more polished than the Mac version.

Use both platforms, as appropriate and to needs. Neither is a panacea and both have strengths...
 

star-affinity

macrumors 68000
Nov 14, 2007
1,931
1,221
How many computers in that environment?

Standardized or hodgepodge of brands, GPUs, other peripherals, etc?

Are they all patched on a uniform, regular basis?

Windows has its quirks but so does OS X, and Apple does appear to be focusing more on iOS.

And Windows' version of Office is far more polished than the Mac version.

Use both platforms, as appropriate and to needs. Neither is a panacea and both have strengths...

A couple of hundered Windows 7 users. Dell computers of various models. Updates are installed manually using Windows update. I know it could be done in a better way. On the Mac side (where I worked fully before) a solution called FileWave is used for deployment. Can be used for Windows too, but that move hasn't been done yet. Seems more complicated to get things done in Windows. Need to fiddel with MSI installers and make sure the old software gets removed before doing an update. This is easier in OS X, at least when it comes to using FileWave for deployment. Many times you just replays the .app in /Applications with the new one.
 
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dentaldoc

macrumors member
Jan 9, 2008
31
2
Washington DC
Revert to Samba

Is there any way that Samba could be reinstalled in Mavericks to allow SMB to work and thus communicate with Windows OS's (in Fusion VM) on a LAN?
 
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