G3 upgrade guidance

photoj2754 · Apr 26, 2014

I know this comes up a lot and I have been researching like crazy but have hit a road block and need advice. I have a very nice Graphite G3 iMac (early 2001 model M5521, 600/40/cdrw) I'm trying to upgrade. It has 9.2.2 on it, firmware is 4.1.7 which I know needs to be upgraded to 4.1.9 before moving forward but for the life of me I can't figure out how to find it and download it. I actually found a download for it and put it on a flash drive but when I booted into OS 9 and tried opening it up, it wasn't recognized and I had to use Disk Utility to verify it which I did, but still would not open. I have also am running 10.1 on the computer but no matter where I search (only uses Internet Explorer) I get no results, even at Apple. I do find links to the download that I click on and get sent to Apple support but when I try and search, say using the document number 75130 or whatever it was, I get nothing. Ultimately I would like to get this up to Tiger but am completely stymied as to what to do next. I don't mind buying Jaguar discs which seems to be the next step to use but read that without the 4.1.9 update you shouldn't try and go beyond 10.1 due to risk of bricking the computer. Sorry if this seems convoluted but just looking for help and I can supply more info if needed about my situation even if that means just giving up on this idea. Thanks so much

photoj2754 · Apr 26, 2014

Well as an update I actually figured out what I was doing wrong. I didn't realize that I had to open the 4.1.9 bin file to get to the smi file to actually install the firmware. I did this and it worked just fine. So now that I've cleared that hurdle I could still use some advice as to what my next step should be to get to Tiger. I already have RAM on the way to upgrade to the full 1gb it can hold so should I install Jaguar next? thanks again.

Intell · Apr 26, 2014

How much ram is in it right now? As long as it is 256MB Tiger will install. It will run poorly with that much, but it will run.

tom vilsack · Apr 26, 2014

If you only have 256 right now and want to try osx,I would go with Panther.Then once your ram comes in Tiger.

photoj2754 · Apr 26, 2014

I just maxed out the ram to 1gb. So are you saying to purchase Panther discs and install that OS first. My other idea was that I sold the exact same imac to my brother about 8 years ago, which had already been upgraded to Tiger. The one I have now was my sister's. Can I just hook them up by FireWire and boot my brother's iMac in target mode and just copy everything from it to mine? Would that work even though I only have Puma installed. Just a thought to make this all work easier. Besides, I installed Photshop and Photomechanic on that iMac and it would be nic to have on this one.

thekev · Apr 26, 2014

Intell said:
How much ram is in it right now? As long as it is 256MB Tiger will install. It will run poorly with that much, but it will run.

Blah I was running 4GB on a G5 with Tiger

.

Altemose · Apr 26, 2014

photoj2754 said:
I just maxed out the ram to 1gb. So are you saying to purchase Panther discs and install that OS first. My other idea was that I sold the exact same imac to my brother about 8 years ago, which had already been upgraded to Tiger. The one I have now was my sister's. Can I just hook them up by FireWire and boot my brother's iMac in target mode and just copy everything from it to mine? Would that work even though I only have Puma installed. Just a thought to make this all work easier. Besides, I installed Photshop and Photomechanic on that iMac and it would be nic to have on this one.

It would work because the iMac you have now originally shipped with Mac OS 9.1 and also included OS X 10.0.3 on later models of the series.

photoj2754 · Apr 26, 2014

Altemose said:
It would work because the iMac you have now originally shipped with Mac OS 9.1 and also included OS X 10.0.3 on later models of the series.[/QUOTE
So if I'm understanding you correctly, using FireWire option would be the way to go? Thanks for your help.

Altemose · Apr 26, 2014

photoj2754 said:
Altemose said:

It would work because the iMac you have now originally shipped with Mac OS 9.1 and also included OS X 10.0.3 on later models of the series.[/QUOTE
So if I'm understanding you correctly, using FireWire option would be the way to go? Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

Yes, hold T at boot. You still need an OS X CD or DVD to use Disk Utility to clone the drive. Or start SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner on the source G3 and put the destination G3 in Target Disk Mode.

Cox Orange · Apr 27, 2014

photoj2754 said:
Altemose said:

It would work because the iMac you have now originally shipped with Mac OS 9.1 and also included OS X 10.0.3 on later models of the series.[/QUOTE
So if I'm understanding you correctly, using FireWire option would be the way to go? Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

Start your sister's iMac, that has Tiger on it. Install SuperDuper search for shirtpocket, that is the inventor and they have all older versions of SuperDuper. It's free.
Now boot your Mac and hold "T". As soon as your sister can see your iMac open SuperDuper and choose your sisters as source and yours as target.
It will take a while to copy, so be patient.

Afterwords you and your sister can change your passwords, if that is important to you. But your account will keep the name of your sisters account. If you have an install DVD you can log in as an admin an change the name as well.

PS: thekev, it should be clear that he meant, that Tige rneeds a minimum of 256Mb RAM to install, not that it does not install, if you have more. How would that make sense?

Intell · Apr 27, 2014

thekev said:
Blah I was running 4GB on a G5 with Tiger.

And that is relevant to photoj2754's G3 how?

thekev · Apr 27, 2014

Intell said:
And that is relevant to photoj2754's G3 how?

While the applications I was running required much more memory than the basic applications, the idea of loading tiger on 256MB sounds awful. I suspect there would be a lot of disk thrashing.

Intell · Apr 27, 2014

thekev said:
While the applications I was running required much more memory than the basic applications, the idea of loading tiger on 256MB sounds awful. I suspect there would be a lot of disk thrashing.

Note I said it will run. I never said anything about being able to load more than one program. I stated 256MB of ram because that is the minimum required to pass the Installer checks. Tiger will even run on 96MB of ram, very very poorly, but it does.

photoj2754 · Apr 27, 2014

Sorry if I'm being dense but I'm not that tech savvy just enough to do. Few simple things with my families Macs. I just used target mode to copy the entire contents of my sister' 2007 intel iMac that the screen just gave out and won't even work on her external monitor now to her new Mac Mini. Just connected them with FireWire, booted the iMac in target mode and everything copied over to the mini just fine. This is what I would like to do with the G3 graphite iMac that I have with 10.1.2 running on it. Connect it to my brother's G3 graphite iMac running 10.4.11 and copy Everything on his to the one I have. Never heard of SuperDuper or carbon Copy Cloner or how to use them. Are they necessary to complete the job I am talking abou? For me, simpler is always better, heh.

MysticCow · Apr 27, 2014

Step one is to download Classilla: http://www.floodgap.com/software/classilla/ This one piece of software can and will breathe life into any Mac running OS 9. Do this step first, as it can save a headache and you'll have a fun OS 9 machine.

Then, while still running OS 9, download and install the iMac Firmware Update: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1283 Follow the directions precisely. You cannot do this from OS X. It has to be done from within OS 9. This has to be done BEFORE using 10.4 anyway.

If you can live in an OS 9 world, go to Macintosh Garden and grab up as many apps as you want. You're done, aside from getting apps from the Garden. Honestly, I'd try to work from Mac OS 9 first before running a cloner and see how well you like it.

Altemose · Apr 27, 2014

MysticCow said:
Step one is to download Classilla: http://www.floodgap.com/software/classilla/ This one piece of software can and will breathe life into any Mac running OS 9. Do this step first, as it can save a headache and you'll have a fun OS 9 machine.

Then, while still running OS 9, download and install the iMac Firmware Update: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1283 Follow the directions precisely. You cannot do this from OS X. It has to be done from within OS 9. This has to be done BEFORE using 10.4 anyway.

If you can live in an OS 9 world, go to Macintosh Garden and grab up as many apps as you want. You're done, aside from getting apps from the Garden. Honestly, I'd try to work from Mac OS 9 first before running a cloner and see how well you like it.

Using Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper is a way to clone the entire disk. Using Migration Assistant on a fresh install of OS X migrates what you want but the physical OS (system files) do not transfer.

photoj2754 · Apr 27, 2014

MysticCow said:
Step one is to download Classilla: http://www.floodgap.com/software/classilla/ This one piece of software can and will breathe life into any Mac running OS 9. Do this step first, as it can save a headache and you'll have a fun OS 9 machine.

Then, while still running OS 9, download and install the iMac Firmware Update: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1283 Follow the directions precisely. You cannot do this from OS X. It has to be done from within OS 9. This has to be done BEFORE using 10.4 anyway.

If you can live in an OS 9 world, go to Macintosh Garden and grab up as many apps as you want. You're done, aside from getting apps from the Garden. Honestly, I'd try to work from Mac OS 9 first before running a cloner and see how well you like it.[/QUOTE
I've already downloaded that firmware. Just trying to figure out the next easiest step to get to running Tiger.

Cox Orange · Apr 28, 2014

You can't just copy everything from your brother's 10.4 install to your disc, because the copy will not work. This is why you use SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner.
Under OS 9 you could just drag and drop one other user's system to another Hard Drive or Mac and afterwards you could use that copied system fully.

Under OS X that is not possible anymore, hence one has to use SuperDuper etc. to do that.

You search an easy way. That IS easy.

1. Fully boot your brothers 10.4 Mac (EDIT: read post #20!!!!)
2. hold T on your Mac and start it, till the purple screen comes with the dancing Firewire Symbol (target mode). Which you allready seem to know.
3. on your brothers Mac open browser
4. go to shirtpocket and download SuperDuper for 10.4.11 OR to carboncopycloner.
5. install
6. open
7. choose his for source and yours for target
8. hit enter and enjoy.

It does get only easier, if you purchase new install discs.

The downside, as I said is, your new system will have your brother's account name, but you can change the password.

photoj2754 · Apr 28, 2014

Cox Orange said:
You can't just copy everything from your brother's 10.4 install to your disc, because the copy will not work. This is why you use SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner.
Under OS 9 you could just drag and drop one other user's system to another Hard Drive or Mac and afterwards you could use that copied system fully.

Under OS X that is not possible anymore, hence one has to use SuperDuper etc. to do that.

You search an easy way. That IS easy.

1. Fully boot your brothers 10.4 Mac
2. hold T on your Mac and start it, till the purple screen comes with the dancing Firewire Symbol (target mode). Which you allready seem to know.
3. on your brothers Mac open browser
4. go to shirtpocket and download SuperDuper for 10.4.11 OR to carboncopycloner.
5. install
6. open
7. choose his for source and yours for target
8. hit enter and enjoy.

It does get only easier, if you purchase new install discs.

The downside, as I said is, your new system will have your brother's account name, but you can change the password.

Thank you very much. That was the simple step by step approach I was looking for.

Cox Orange · Apr 29, 2014

photoj2754 said:
Thank you very much. That was the simple step by step approach I was looking for.

There is one additional thing, that I forgot!

After you installed SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner, quit all open applications. Boot your brother's computer new and go to the "utilities" folder in the "applications" folder and there open disc utility.
choose repair hard drive and repair permissions.

So the actual step-by-step guide would be:

1. Fully boot your brothers 10.4 Mac
2. on your brothers Mac open browser
3. go to shirtpocket and download SuperDuper for 10.4.11 OR to carboncopycloner.
4. install
5. when finished, quit all open applications (e.g. the browser)
6. reboot your brothers Mac
7. go to "applications" -> "utilities" -> disc untility
8. open disc utility and repair permissions and repair hard drive
9. wait till finshied
10. hold T on your Mac and start it, till the purple screen comes with the dancing Firewire Symbol (target mode). Which you allready seem to know.
11. open SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner
12. choose his Mac for source and yours for target
13. hit enter and enjoy.

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