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Old May 14, 2014, 12:05 PM   #1
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Norwegian Consumer Group Files Complaint Over iCloud's 'Convoluted' Terms of Service




Apple is facing a complaint from the Norwegian Consumer Council over the terms and conditions for its iCloud service, reports ZDNet. The consumer watchdog group claims the agreement violates the Norwegian Market Act, which governs marketing practices in the country.

The complaint arose from a study of seven cloud storage providers offering service in Norway and was part of a broader investigation into how digital services are being offered to Norwegian consumers. The Norwegian Consumer Council cited Apple for its 8,600 word iCloud terms of service, which it claims is "convoluted and unclear."

Particularly troubling to the Consumer Council were terms that allow Apple to modify the agreement at its discretion without notifying customers of the changes.
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"Cloud storage services rely on users' trust and confidence. However, the current terms undermine this. It is important that consumer rights and privacy also apply to online services. We are convinced that all parties are better served with more user-friendly terms. Apple offers to store valuable information on behalf of its users, but gives itself the right to amend the agreement at its sole discretion. As consumers, we are left with no real rights or security. Receiving notice when terms change should be a bare minimum requirement. The fact that this can be done without informing the users is unacceptable," Finn Myrstad, head of digital services unit at the Consumer Council, said in a statement.
This is one of several overseas complaints Apple has faced recently, including a Belgian claim that Apple misled consumers about warranty information and an accusation of tax fraud by Italian authorities.

Despite these occasional hurdles, Apple continues to operate a strong global business with international sales accounting for 66 percent of revenue in Q2 2014. Apple also opened its first stores in Brazil and Turkey this year, and now has a retail presence in 15 countries worldwide.




Article Link: Norwegian Consumer Group Files Complaint Over iCloud's 'Convoluted' Terms of Service
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Old May 14, 2014, 12:06 PM   #2
dannyyankou
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No one reads the TOS anyway.
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Old May 14, 2014, 12:07 PM   #3
okboy
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Fair enough.
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Old May 14, 2014, 12:07 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by dannyyankou View Post
No one reads the TOS anyway.
Exactly. Scroll scroll scroll your boat. Accept terms.
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Old May 14, 2014, 12:13 PM   #5
rmatthewware
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They want a head's up when the TOS change? I think that's fair.

They want legal documents to be simplified? Good luck with that. Besides, I thought Scandinavians were supposed to be smart.
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Old May 14, 2014, 12:14 PM   #6
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What, are we complaining again?
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Old May 14, 2014, 12:45 PM   #7
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In other news, loyal Apple fans file a complaint against Norwegian Consumer Groups complaint.
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Old May 14, 2014, 12:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyyankou View Post
No one reads the TOS anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by troop231 View Post
Exactly. Scroll scroll scroll your boat. Accept terms.


Why wont it read?!

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Old May 14, 2014, 01:02 PM   #9
Gasu E.
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A good reason why I never want to be running a multi-national consumer business. You need to run a marketing and legal department for each country, no matter how small.
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Old May 14, 2014, 01:04 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dannyyankou View Post
No one reads the TOS anyway.
Why doesn't it read?!!!
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Old May 14, 2014, 02:02 PM   #11
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Why wont it read?!

Ahhh you beat me to a South Park joke!
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Old May 14, 2014, 02:12 PM   #12
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Ahhh you beat me to a South Park joke!
Best part of that episode is the Japanese guy yelling "I never should've updated the iTunes!!"
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Old May 14, 2014, 02:24 PM   #13
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Best part of that episode is the Japanese guy yelling "I never should've updated the iTunes!!"
And his misinterpretation of what Kyle wanted him to eat! xD
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Old May 14, 2014, 02:31 PM   #14
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And once again, most tech people shrug off a perfectly valid complaint against their tech gods.

Sigh.

Why is it that North American governments and consumer advocates never have a damn thing to say about the miserable anti-consumer defaults of the computer industry? Everyone here is so totally indoctrinated into the BS special pleading excuses and complacency.
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Old May 14, 2014, 03:29 PM   #15
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And once again, most tech people shrug off a perfectly valid complaint against their tech gods.

Sigh.

Why is it that North American governments and consumer advocates never have a damn thing to say about the miserable anti-consumer defaults of the computer industry? Everyone here is so totally indoctrinated into the BS special pleading excuses and complacency.
Well, the argument goes that people are not total idiots, and don't need to be treated like slow children. That is, they can make informed decisions (like not to buy stuff, or to agree to stuff without reading it) on their own.

Of course, we know this is not true at all. Most people are, in fact, total idiots, incompetent boobs or dim-witted children; or, at the least, a lot dumber than me.
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Old May 14, 2014, 04:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Gasu E. View Post
Well, the argument goes that people are not total idiots, and don't need to be treated like slow children. That is, they can make informed decisions (like not to buy stuff, or to agree to stuff without reading it) on their own.

Of course, we know this is not true at all. Most people are, in fact, total idiots, incompetent boobs or dim-witted children; or, at the least, a lot dumber than me.
What if you agree to terms of service that are decent, only to have them changed behind your back without notifying you?
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Old May 14, 2014, 04:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Gasu E. View Post
A good reason why I never want to be running a multi-national consumer business. You need to run a marketing and legal department for each country, no matter how small.
If you want to do business in a country you have to comply with that country's laws. If you consider the costs excessive nobody is forcing you to keep doing business there.
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Old May 14, 2014, 04:29 PM   #18
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Seems reasonable to me
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Old May 14, 2014, 04:34 PM   #19
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With the corporation backed US Congress unwilling to change anything that offends their paymasters, it might take the actions of a few progressive countries to write legislation that protects the little guy. Not that it will trickle down here unless people inform themselves. Well done Norway, well done.
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Old May 14, 2014, 04:34 PM   #20
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It would be nice if MR actually included the TOS/TOC verbiage this group is complaining about. Just because the complaint is coming from a consumer watchdog type group doesn't mean it's valid.
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Old May 14, 2014, 06:11 PM   #21
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It would be nice if MR actually included the TOS/TOC verbiage this group is complaining about. Just because the complaint is coming from a consumer watchdog type group doesn't mean it's valid.
Here's the actual complaint, with the references you're asking for (in English):
http://www.forbrukerradet.no/_attach...0/binary/29927

Here's The Consumer Council's own article on this subject (again, in English):
http://www.forbrukerradet.no/forside...d-european-law
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Old May 15, 2014, 12:27 AM   #22
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With the corporation backed US Congress unwilling to change anything that offends their paymasters, it might take the actions of a few progressive countries to write legislation that protects the little guy. Not that it will trickle down here unless people inform themselves. Well done Norway, well done.
Thumbs up :-)
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Old May 15, 2014, 04:25 AM   #23
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If you want to do business in a country you have to comply with that country's laws. If you consider the costs excessive nobody is forcing you to keep doing business there.
Who is saying Apple is doing anything against the law? What the quoted article says is that a Norwegian consumer group filed a complaint with the Norwegian consumer ombudsman. So you might wait until a decision is made.

On the other hand, Norwegians are clearly allowed to entrust their data with privacy-respecting companies like Google. (I mean that in a sarcastic way, in case it has to be said).
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Old May 15, 2014, 04:56 AM   #24
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Who is saying Apple is doing anything against the law?
Nobody? Or, at least, that's not what I said at all.
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Old May 15, 2014, 03:34 PM   #25
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Well done Norway! The way a government is supposed to work!
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