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Apple Researching Integration of Solar Panels in Flexible Touchscreen Displays

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Nunofaria21

macrumors member
May 16, 2014
38
0
Portugal
SCOLANATOR said:
As an EEE student myself who's also interested in renewables this is interesting and you make a good point but A, bezels are only ever shrinking to the point where there won't be a bezel any longer and B, the most efficient PV cells are at best 20% efficient in bright sunlight and where I live that isn't very often. I think better tech would be using power from kinetic oscillations like walking or from thermal energy like body heat, this could contribute to an extended battery life.
Click to expand...

I'm actually ok with the bezels if they have some kind of "hidden" technology in them, but yes, you're right about that.
That's one of the solar energy problems. Some countries have very few equivalent hours of full sun which can be seen as a problem. This kind of device will only be efficient on 40% of the Earth's surface. Considering that nobody lives at the open sea, it will go to around 20% or less. If this would actually be used to power the backlight as someone said above, it could work but not as a "backup battery". Thermal would also have problems attached to it because the average temp. of the human body is not enough to be efficient as well. About kinetics, I'm not that comfortable talking about it :p
 
T

thelookingglass

macrumors 68020
Apr 27, 2005
2,138
633
Nunofaria21 said:
I'm actually ok with the bezels if they have some kind of "hidden" technology in them, but yes, you're right about that.
That's one of the solar energy problems. Some countries have very few equivalent hours of full sun which can be seen as a problem. This kind of device will only be efficient on 40% of the Earth's surface. Considering that nobody lives at the open sea, it will go to around 20% or less. If this would actually be used to power the backlight as someone said above, it could work but not as a "backup battery". Thermal would also have problems attached to it because the average temp. of the human body is not enough to be efficient as well. About kinetics, I'm not that comfortable talking about it :p
Click to expand...

That's actually a common misperception. The UK is probably the leading solar market in terms of installations this year and they definitely are not a hotspot for sunlight. The thing that makes solar so compelling is that if we (meaning humanity) just built solar panel plants in a few open spaces (say, just a small portion of Arizona/New Mexico or parts of western China) along with a more efficient electric grid, we could supply the electricity needs for many developed countries.

The solar in this patent is compelling as a constant charger. Most of the time, my phone is lying on my desk unused. It'd be great if it would continue to charge, however slowly, while it's just lying there. You could probably tack on an extra 5-10% of usable battery life each day from this alone.
 
Lepton

Lepton

macrumors 6502a
Apr 13, 2002
855
299
Cold Spring Harbor, NY
This is good technology for the iWatch. A watch is typically exposed to light all day. The iWatch is also likely to be curved to fit the wrist, thus requiring a flexible display and solar cell.
 
E

ElTorro

macrumors 6502
Jan 23, 2013
273
2
I remember 3-4 years ago seeing Apple's patent filings on the same topic for non-flexible touchscreen devices. The fact that they are extending it to flexible panels is good news as it shows that they didn't drop the idea and hopefully we will see this on the non-flexible devices sooner than later.
 
acctman

acctman

macrumors 65816
Oct 26, 2012
1,323
856
Georgia
iSolar ... Samsung just saw this and currently started writing the trademark for Samsung Galaxy SC .. SC for solar charging.
 
N

Nunofaria21

macrumors member
May 16, 2014
38
0
Portugal
thelookingglass said:
That's actually a common misperception. The UK is probably the leading solar market in terms of installations this year and they definitely are not a hotspot for sunlight. The thing that makes solar so compelling is that if we (meaning humanity) just built solar panel plants in a few open spaces (say, just a small portion of Arizona/New Mexico or parts of western China) along with a more efficient electric grid, we could supply the electricity needs for many developed countries.

The solar in this patent is compelling as a constant charger. Most of the time, my phone is lying on my desk unused. It'd be great if it would continue to charge, however slowly, while it's just lying there. You could probably tack on an extra 5-10% of usable battery life each day from this alone.
Click to expand...

The UK is actually good for sun because although the sky is usually very cloudy, the temperatures allow the panels to achieve their full efficiency. On the other hand, Arizona wouldn't be that good because the high temperatures will cause a significant loss of efficiency. Portugal, Germany, the UK, Belgium and so on, are leading on solar energy because of the reasonable temperatures and equivalent hours of full sun.
 
jrswizzle

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
HobeSoundDarryl said:
On the latter point, I suspect you're in the minority of iPhone users. On the former, is the current thinness, thin enough? Or do "we" still want even thinner iPhones? What is most likely to yield even thinner iPhones is shrinking the battery. The spin for thin keeps revolving around "about the same battery life." I'm starting to envision the iPhone 11 as being sheet-of-paper thin because it will come with no battery (a battery case will become a required accessory purchase rather than an option) but we'll get another round of "thinnest & lightest iPhone ever" spin before the 12 achieves invisibility thinness (Apple shipping an empty box).
Click to expand...

Since my use case is pretty average-above average, I'd say I fall in with the MAJORITY of people.

Remember, the upset minority is always more vocal than the content majority. It may SEEM like everyone complains about battery life, but I'd be willing to bet most people use their iPhones throughout the day just fine and charge em up while they sleep.

Also - despite iDevices getting thinner, batteries in them have actually gotten larger. Could they obviously be even bigger if the device was bigger? Of course. But to say that the iPhone's thinness is somehow having a negative effect on battery life/size from previous iterations isn't true.

All that being said - I'm all for improvements in battery tech and life. I'm looking forward to someone coming up with some new technology that charges faster, lasts longer and has an overall longer lifespan.

*(personally, I think the thinness should be dictated by the camera apparatus - it should NEVER protrude from the back of the device. I REALLY didn't like that about the Nexus 5 and GS4, and I hope Apple doesn't go this route.)*
 
8

827538

Cancelled
Jul 3, 2013
2,322
2,833
Nunofaria21 said:
I'm actually ok with the bezels if they have some kind of "hidden" technology in them, but yes, you're right about that.
That's one of the solar energy problems. Some countries have very few equivalent hours of full sun which can be seen as a problem. This kind of device will only be efficient on 40% of the Earth's surface. Considering that nobody lives at the open sea, it will go to around 20% or less. If this would actually be used to power the backlight as someone said above, it could work but not as a "backup battery". Thermal would also have problems attached to it because the average temp. of the human body is not enough to be efficient as well. About kinetics, I'm not that comfortable talking about it :p
Click to expand...

You would be surprised at how much energy is produced via body heat and walking, the US military is working on harnessing those very same energy sources to power next generation battlefield gadgets. Same way my mechanical watch stays charged simply due to my wrist movement. It might be interesting to see a combination of all three to really extended a phones battery life, as they only need a few watts.

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Nunofaria21 said:
The UK is actually good for sun because although the sky is usually very cloudy, the temperatures allow the panels to achieve their full efficiency. On the other hand, Arizona wouldn't be that good because the high temperatures will cause a significant loss of efficiency. Portugal, Germany, the UK, Belgium and so on, are leading on solar energy because of the reasonable temperatures and equivalent hours of full sun.
Click to expand...

There's ways to make panels more efficient in higher temperatures. Also as efficiency drops due to temperature the amount of photons hitting the surface increases which compensates for the drop in efficiency. Plus there's new advancements to capture energy from more wavelengths, further increasing efficiency. Yes you're right that even on overcast cloudy days solar PV cells still produce energy - even a full moon can generate power in a PV cell. I would like to see PV cells on every single building in the country - it's now reaching grid parity in terms of cost/watt as fossil fuel plants in Germany and Spain I believe. It doesn't need to be the most efficient. Once the initial cost of the panels and installation is paid for then it's basically free energy - deploy it en-masse and you would be surprised at the amount of energy it could produce across a country. My neighbour - thanks to feed in tariffs - actually gets paid in his monthly bill!
 
M

motame98

macrumors newbie
May 20, 2014
1
0
Panels in Flexible Touchscreen Displays

I'm no expert, but I'd look at a single supplier for Apple. GTAT. They will/do make the sapphire display/fingerprint sensor. They also are heavily invested in the solar industry. As I've read, they have the expertise to make a very thin sapphire screen, that has better than glass touch sensor abilities. They also have the ability to layer it on other materials. So how far of a leap would it be to make a screen with multiple layers with one or more with the solar capabilities. The issue i think would delay this is the image quality with additional layers. Apple won't bring something out that has a reduced image quality.

Would like to see what everyone thinks. Just my two cents
 
macs4nw

macs4nw

macrumors 601
Sep 21, 2010
4,336
1,933
Next-door from the little old lady from Pasadena..
MacrumoursUser said:
Imagine you are in the middle of the woods, lost and your iPhone is dead. If this was to happen you could just leave it in the sun for few hours and you would be able to call 911 and your mommy.
Click to expand...

You'd first have to find a clearing in the woods, hope there's enough available sunlight, and then pray there's coverage where you are…..and all that before the big bad wolf arrives….. :D
 
N

Nunofaria21

macrumors member
May 16, 2014
38
0
Portugal
SCOLANATOR said:
You would be surprised at how much energy is produced via body heat and walking, the US military is working on harnessing those very same energy sources to power next generation battlefield gadgets. Same way my mechanical watch stays charged simply due to my wrist movement. It might be interesting to see a combination of all three to really extended a phones battery life, as they only need a few watts.

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There's ways to make panels more efficient in higher temperatures. Also as efficiency drops due to temperature the amount of photons hitting the surface increases which compensates for the drop in efficiency. Plus there's new advancements to capture energy from more wavelengths, further increasing efficiency. Yes you're right that even on overcast cloudy days solar PV cells still produce energy - even a full moon can generate power in a PV cell. I would like to see PV cells on every single building in the country - it's now reaching grid parity in terms of cost/watt as fossil fuel plants in Germany and Spain I believe. It doesn't need to be the most efficient. Once the initial cost of the panels and installation is paid for then it's basically free energy - deploy it en-masse and you would be surprised at the amount of energy it could produce across a country. My neighbour - thanks to feed in tariffs - actually gets paid in his monthly bill!
Click to expand...

yeah, I was not sure about kinetic and thermal energy but if you say so, I'm going to believe you ;)

Panels today have aprox. 35ºC of maximum air temp. so there is no drop on the production process. That would mean that due heat transfers and bla, bla, bla, the surface temp. of it would be much higher. That means that although there are more photons hitting the surface, instead of having a efficiency increase, it would decrease. That is why only thermal panels should be used in countries like Dubai and so on..
I have solar panels myself and in the summer, instead of paying what we used to pay (aprox. 300€ per month), we payed last summer 2€ (all 3 months).
 
captain kaos

captain kaos

macrumors 65816
Jan 16, 2008
1,156
28
UK
iWatch.

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Nunofaria21 said:
I'm actually ok with the bezels if they have some kind of "hidden" technology in them, but yes, you're right about that.
That's one of the solar energy problems. Some countries have very few equivalent hours of full sun which can be seen as a problem. This kind of device will only be efficient on 40% of the Earth's surface. Considering that nobody lives at the open sea, it will go to around 20% or less. If this would actually be used to power the backlight as someone said above, it could work but not as a "backup battery". Thermal would also have problems attached to it because the average temp. of the human body is not enough to be efficient as well. About kinetics, I'm not that comfortable talking about it :p
Click to expand...

Come over to Australia, where even the winter is bloody bright! :D
 
8

827538

Cancelled
Jul 3, 2013
2,322
2,833
Nunofaria21 said:
yeah, I was not sure about kinetic and thermal energy but if you say so, I'm going to believe you ;)

Panels today have aprox. 35ºC of maximum air temp. so there is no drop on the production process. That would mean that due heat transfers and bla, bla, bla, the surface temp. of it would be much higher. That means that although there are more photons hitting the surface, instead of having a efficiency increase, it would decrease. That is why only thermal panels should be used in countries like Dubai and so on..
I have solar panels myself and in the summer, instead of paying what we used to pay (aprox. 300€ per month), we payed last summer 2€ (all 3 months).
Click to expand...

Nice, I plan on using solar tiles when I come to build my house in the future, coupled with a ground source heat pump, super insulation etc and hopefully I'll use next to no energy from the grid and pay next to nothing on my bills. Renewables are the way forward.
My parents have a few properties but they missed the deadline for the really good feed in tariff but they still plan on installing solar panels providing they can get a good deal. I just love the idea of creating your own energy simply by having solar panels on your roof. 4kW x 25 years is a lot of power, multiply that by every house in our respective countries and you are talking TWh's of power over their lifetime.

Very quick est... 25 million homes in the UK, 3.4kWh per house per year. Over 25 years would generate (without losses in efficiency like 80% at year 20 etc)... 2.12 x10^15 Wh = 2.12 PetaWatthours!

You can power a small fan simply from the heat coming off of one of your hands. They're looking at generating power from the movement of your clothes to generate power to charge stuff. Or from shoes etc. If Apple can find a way to harness multiple small renewable energy sources then it could result in big battery life increases.
 
Last edited:
kdarling

kdarling

macrumors P6
Jun 9, 2007
17,373
5,924
First university coding class = 47 years ago
MacRumors said:
The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office today granted a new Apple patent describing the integration of a solar panel into a mobile touchscreen device with a flexible display, reports AppleInsider.
Click to expand...

Note that this patent is not about a solar panel peeking up from behind a display, like a lot of people probably think.

It only includes the case where the panel is on the back of the display and pointing the OTHER direction AWAY from it. E.g. the display faces up, and thus the solar panel must face down towards the inside of the device case.

Which is why, in that configuration, the panel would need the light to be channeled to it somehow, via reflectors or light pipes.
 
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