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5050

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 28, 2009
180
2
I scanned thru the posts again and didn't see what CUDA app(s) you are using the Titans for. I ask because, depending on the app, there may be the possibility of network GPU rendering. That's the case for me with Octane (in its next release) so I decided not to invest in a Netstor since I could build a dumb PC box or hackintosh to hold more cards for less money.

I work in all areas of post production (compositing, 3d, editorial, color grading) but have maximized CUDA application mostly within DaVinci Resolve. I used to do more 3d work in Maya at which point Octane looked really interesting. But currently, DaVinci Resolve is my main area of interest and purpose for maximizing GPU performance.

How about yourself? Do you have a reel for your work in Octane? What 3d app do you use with Octane? How many Titans are you running?
 

5050

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 28, 2009
180
2
The reason why I made my "Hack Your Mac" suggestion to you [i.e., that which appears to me to be the lowest cost solution, unless you have lots of drives] is because when I read your other thread I got the impression that you would be more inclined to stay only on the Mac platform. If you are, like I am, prone to keep your Mac until its died an unrecoverable death, the solution that I gave you in my 2nd to last post allows you to run the cards that it appears to me (from the other thread) that you currently own, along with the eSATA/USB 3.0 card that you had mentioned desiring, along with another Titan, and not increase the footprint of your system much at all.

In the end, it could be that my being an OS agnostic got the better of me on that first recommendation of the NA255A, except that it does provide you with 1200W of power should you, in the future, use GPUs .

I wish I had your spirit of hardware modification! The best setup I managed to put together was an external PSU that would power up and sleep with my Mac Pro in sync (using the Add2Psu). Small achievement but proud nonetheless. I'm not sure if I would be able to successfully pull off the modifications you outlined!

Regarding the NA250A and NA255A, would either of them be able to boot and sleep with the Mac Pro in sync? If not, could I use my Add2Psu to sync either the NA250A and the NA255A with my Mac Pro's power and sleep cycles?

http://www.add2psu.com/
 

Tutor

macrumors 65816
It's a small world after all - it's a small, small world.

Everyone's only two or three people away from getting to know anyone on planet earth. All we have to do is be curious and not afraid to ask people who they know and ask the people who they know and ask the people who they know, and, of course, supply specific information and ask specific questions at each stage.

I wish I had your spirit of hardware modification! The best setup I managed to put together was an external PSU that would power up and sleep with my Mac Pro in sync (using the Add2Psu). Small achievement but proud nonetheless. I'm not sure if I would be able to successfully pull off the modifications you outlined!

I understand that most people would not personally do as I did. But even if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, do you know someone nearby who would be competent and whose services would be inexpensive? Even if you don't know someone nearby who can do it for you competently and inexpensively, I believe that at least a few of the people who you do know might be able to fully satisfy your needs or know someone nearby you who can do it competently and inexpensively, or is just another degree away from you getting it done competently and inexpensively by someone nearby you. Also, check local directories, ads, and services such as http://www.angieslist.com , etc.

Regarding the NA250A and NA255A, would either of them be able to boot and sleep with the Mac Pro in sync? If not, could I use my Add2Psu to sync either the NA250A and the NA255A with my Mac Pro's power and sleep cycles? http://www.add2psu.com/

My guess is "Yes" regarding their innate sync ability, but it's just a guess. But since I do not own either of the three chassis we've talked about or the Add2Psu, I can't be sure how well any of them sync. I'd use Google and/or ask Netstor. Add2Psu's Hardocp review seems to indicate good sync.
 
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riggles

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2013
301
14
I work in all areas of post production (compositing, 3d, editorial, color grading) but have maximized CUDA application mostly within DaVinci Resolve. I used to do more 3d work in Maya at which point Octane looked really interesting. But currently, DaVinci Resolve is my main area of interest and purpose for maximizing GPU performance.

How about yourself? Do you have a reel for your work in Octane? What 3d app do you use with Octane? How many Titans are you running?
I don't have a real of Octane work, actually I don't have a real at all cuz I work with stills, but I do need to get around to uploading some work to Behance. I use MODO for a 3D app and the Octane plugin hasn't been out very long, just about to come out of beta, so I've only been able to use it on my last two jobs. It was this last job where my two previous cards (a 670 + 770) took 4hrs to produce this 2K still image. The advertising agency this was for often requests very high-res images and I was quite worried about my turnaround time since we were still making changes. So I bought two Titan Blacks to save me, since I quickly knew I wanted to stick with Octane or at least GPU rendering in general.
 

5050

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 28, 2009
180
2
I understand that most people would not personally do as I did. But even if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, do you know someone nearby who would be competent and whose services would be inexpensive? Even if you don't know someone nearby who can do it for you competently and inexpensively, I believe that at least a few of the people who you do know might be able to fully satisfy your needs or know someone nearby you who can do it competently and inexpensively, or is just another degree away from you getting it done competently and inexpensively by someone nearby you. Also, check local directories, ads, and services such as http://www.angieslist.com , etc.

Hi Tutor (and other mod superstars!). Would be interested in your thoughts for this setup. Before I dive into the details, I've attached a photograph of my current setup.

The idea is to add a 2nd Titan into Slot 2.

I think the NA211A could still be an option if I move all my other PCIe cards (Decklink Mini Monitor and SSDs) out of my Mac Pro and into the PCIe enclosure. The problem is, I currently have PCIe power cables and a Molex cable (running from the internal Mac Pro PSU) passing through an open PCIe slot. If I install both a 2nd internal Titan and the NA211A PCIe express card, that leaves no open slots to run my PCIe power cables (for both Titans) and the Molex cable out out of the Mac Pro.

Now I know you're a hardware mod genius and was wondering if you had any ideas on how to modify the bracket on the Netstor PCIe express card to pass through the PCIe power cables and the Molex cable. Possible?
 

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Tutor

macrumors 65816
... .
Now I know you're a hardware mod genius and was wondering if you had any ideas on how to modify the bracket on the Netstor PCIe express card to pass through the PCIe power cables and the Molex cable. Possible?

Here's my 2 cent suggestions: 1) Determine whether the bracket is removable and whether you feel comfortable doing so. 2) Size up how much of an opening you'll need to pass the cable bundle by taking the total cable girth and comparing it to how much of an opening you'd have if your cut a bracket about where I've blacked it out in the photos , below. I assume that the bracket is secured to the back of the card, like most are, by two screws. I suggest you keep that protection intact; so only consider cutting a bracket below the bottom screw to preserve the bracket's ability to stabilize the card from the top. 3) Should you determine that you can remove enough of the bracket at the bottomnto allow passage of the cable bundle, then buy a second (replacement) bracket before cutting begins (you never know early enough when you might need the card to be in factory appearance). 4) Next make the cut and be sure to smooth down the edges with a fine grain sand paper. 5) Make sure that the top of the bracket is always securely held down after installation.

I. NetstorCardPCIeHackA provides the greatest opening, but does not provide additional support at the base because the bottom of the bracket is completely removed.

II. NetstorCardPCIeHackB provides the an opening that may or may not be large enough (that's for you to judge), but does provide a little additional support at the base because only one side of the base of the bracket is cut.

III. NetstorCardPCIeHackC provides the smallest opening, but does provide more support at the base than the other two options. It is, however, the more complicated cut because all of the cuts are in the interior of the base of the bracket.

IV. MacProHack is what I recommended to you earlier to pass the BoosterX5 cables out of the back of the MacPro.

You may have to magnify the images to better see what I'm getting at. I've got systems with all of these hacks. If my systems could name me, they'd name me, "Jigsaw."

BTW - Using a Dremel saw to cut the grill on the back of a MacPro for a BooosterX5 power cable exit point is no more difficult than any of the other cuts. Before the cut, just securely cover all openings into the interior of the MacPro and make a DuckTape pocket on the interior side (within the MacPro) - opposite (behind or on the other side of) the cut - to catch any metal particles. The pocket should be about 1 inch outside of the all areas of the cut and it's called a pocket because it swells away from the cut (towards the front of the MacPro) so that you don't cut the tape will you're cutting the grill. Vacuum throughly before powering up the system. All of this takes under 5 minutes. The mod that I've suggest to inner attachment to the removable door of the MacPro (to drop the cables from the BoosterX5 in the optical bay to power the PCIe cards) takes about 5 minutes also. The two cuts to the interior assembly take under 20 seconds. The remainder of that under 5 minute estimate involves removing about 18 screws before the cuts and reattaching the interior assembly with those screws. Since everything is then within the MacPro, the only exterior evidence that you've modded your MacPro is the cut to the grill - to the left of where the PCIe cards appear when the MacPro is standing upright. Then you don't have to run the MacPro with the door unattached, allowing you to take full advantage of the interior air flows.
 

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5050

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 28, 2009
180
2
4) Next make the cut and be sure to smooth down the edges with a fine grain sand paper. 5) Make sure that the top of the bracket is always securely held down after installation.

I. NetstorCardPCIeHackA provides the greatest opening, but does not provide additional support at the base because the bottom of the bracket is completely removed.

II. NetstorCardPCIeHackB provides the an opening that may or may not be large enough (that's for you to judge), but does provide a little additional support at the base because only one side of the base of the bracket is cut.

III. NetstorCardPCIeHackC provides the smallest opening, but does provide more support at the base than the other two options. It is, however, the more complicated cut because all of the cuts are in the interior of the base of the bracket.

Thanks for your suggestions Tutor. Which model of Dremel saw do you recommend for NetstorCardPCIeHackA, NetstorCardPCIeHackB, and NetstorCardPCIeHackC?

Also, what about taking the card somewhere to be laser cut? Expensive and even possible?
 

5050

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 28, 2009
180
2
P.S. I'm not aware of any company providing a 4 slot PCIe chassis solution that allows you to swap interfaces to accommodate a move to Thunderbolt. That situation could, however, change; but I bet that greed may put it on the back burner, if not deep six it.

Wow, look at what I found! Wonder if this can work for their larger enclosures as well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qytFZGTfX7k
 

Tutor

macrumors 65816
Thanks for your suggestions Tutor. Which model of Dremel saw do you recommend for NetstorCardPCIeHackA, NetstorCardPCIeHackB, and NetstorCardPCIeHackC?

My Dremel is model 300i and for working on my MacPros I use and EZ Lock 1 and 1/2 in. circular Metal Cutting Blade.

Also, what about taking the card somewhere to be laser cut? Expensive and even possible?

That sounds like a wise, feasible course of action. But since I do my own mods, I don't have a good feel for 3rd party pricing.
 

rbnjr

macrumors newbie
Dec 7, 2008
8
0
mukilteo wa.
Eating bits and bites while driving in the fast lane ... .

I’d rather have a bite of sweet potato pie rather than just a little bit of it because I have a big mouth and the better the pie the wider that mouth can open. Show me a computer interface solution that can mimic that feat.



A given: 1 Gbit or Gb is equal to 125 megabytes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit.

Yes, with a 40 Gbps total bandwidth limit, and if an x8 host adapter card is seated in an x8 or x16 PCIe slot of at least the same version and there's no other slot usage to account for in an external chassis, then it appears to be enough bandwidth to fully account for one occupied x8 slot's bandwidth; but for future growth please consider the following:

1) Whether the bee that stung me is big (capitalized) or small (lower case) really matters to me a lot - http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/EN/units-converter/data-storage/15-16/ [ 8 gigabits (Gb) = 1 gigabyte (GB); so it takes 8 little bees to equal 1 big bee ] .
Verified that size does really matter with other reliable sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte vs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit .

2) Simple is as simple does - Keeping PCI express basics simple: Know your chipset, number of actual lanes per slot, slot version and the same for any other slots, if any - http://www.enthusiastpc.net/articles/00003/1.aspx - and what you're measuring, e.g., total traffic from all cars on the freeway (i.e., all lanes from all slots) vs. the traffic in the lanes exiting to the beach (all lanes related to a single slot). In other words, those "40 Gbps" [for the NA250A] and "5Gbps via laptop’s ExpressCard/34 interface as well as 20Gbps when linking to desktop PC or Mac computer" [for the NA211A] figures in the product summaries refer to measures of the total traffic per second that can be accommodated while moving data across the chassis-to-PC interface.

3) Note what I take away from the article on PCI Express Basics that I cite in the last paragraph above :
“What separates 1.x, 2.x and 3.x mostly is the transfer speed per lane:

• A PCI Express 1.x lane can transfer up to 250MB/s
• A PCI Express 2.x lane can transfer up to 500MB/s
• A PCI Express 3.x lane can transfer up to 1GB/s

These are Megabytes and Gigabytes not bits, so quite fast, even on just a single lane :)

Obviously a 16 lane connection is still 16 times as fast as a single lane so:

• PCI Express 1.x does 16 x 250MB/s = 4GB/s on a x16 connection
• PCI Express 2.x does 16 x 500MB/s = 8GB/s on a x16 connection
• PCI Express 3.x does 16 x 1GB/s = 16GB/s on a x16 connection .” (Emphasis added and rounding not disparaged.)

BTW - 40Gb (gigabit) = 5 gigabytes. Five gigabytes is greater than 4 gigabytes (8GB[for x16 V2]/2[to account for use of x8 instead of x16]=4).

4) Keep in mind, “What’s all in your system’s wallet?” or “How many slots (and what are their characteristics aggregated) in the system or external chassis that you're considering?”

5) The NA255A-XGPU [ http://www.netstor.com.tw/_03/03_02.php?MTEx ] that I earlier recommended that you consider for future growth has data transfer rates up to 128Gbps between host and GPU enclosure (but that's for a PCIe V3 setup) and has 4x PCIe 3.0 x8 (in x16 connectors). A PCIe V3 x8 slot is about equal to a PCIe V2 x16. The NA250A has 4x PCIe 2.0 x8 (in x16 connectors). Thus the NA255A-XGPU has much greater potential to handle more than 3x more data than the NA250A. The 128 gigabits or 16 gigabytes per second data rate between host and GPU enclosure for the NA255A-XGPU (PCIe 3.0 x8) compares very favorably to the 5 gigabytes per second data rate between host and GPU enclosure for the NA250A (PCIe 2.0 x8), but the NA250A does costs about $470 less ( $2200 - $1730 = $470 ). However that $470 seems to me to be a small difference in price to pay when the choice is between feeding and being feed from 4 four double wide GPUs via a 16 gigabyte per second aggregate data rate vs. doing so via a 5 gigabyte per second aggregate data rate, particularly if your GPUs are PCIe V3 rated, as is a GTX Titan. I do, however, recognize that what can happen at the outer limits doesn't always happen at all times.


Addendum: Take note of everything in the mix - unlike the case dealing with only internal slots, you talking about an aggregated system involving a couple of other variables - at least (a) an interface card that plugs into a PCIe slot on your PC, (b) a chassis cable that plugs into another (c) interface on the external chassis to communicate with (d) PCIe cards in (e) the PCIe slots within the chassis. So keep this in mind - THE SLOWEST VARIABLE DETERMINES THE FASTEST SPEED. So familiarize yourself with each of them to better ensure that what you get fully satisfies your needs. However, (and as is pointed out by fhenry in post #11, above), if the external GPU(s) are to be used for computation only or mostly (e.g., 3d or animation rendering), it probably won't matter as much if the top aggregate interface transfer rate appears low when compared to the total potential of all of your GPUs as it would matter if you were relying on the GPUs for display purposes.[/QUOTE
Have you read the manual to see if the
NA255A-XGPU
has a 4 pin and 8 pin connector coming from the 1200 watt psu? the Titan card needs both.
 
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