Mac Mini as HTPC or Synology NAS with ATV?

Crazy Badger · Jun 12, 2014

blanka said:
That's why I recommended the DIY server. For 150 bucks, half the price of a Synology, you have a full featured server that runs Plex server (and thus converts your raw material), allows 4 full 3,5 inch disks for up to 16TB of storage, is complete silent (fanless) and is much faster than the Synology (quad core X86, max 16GB ram, 2x SATA 300+2xSATA 600, gigabit)

This would be my recommendation too, which delivers everything required and whilst it may not be as straight forward to set-up as an all Apple solution, it will be much cheaper.

I have a HP Microserver (N40L) running FreeNAS with 4x4TB drives in a RAIDZ1 configuration (so about 11TB useable, and single disk redundancy) which also runs Plex Media Server (for managing the 6-7TB of media) and PlexConnect (which lets the ATV connect to Plex without the need to jailbreak). It's also running ownCloud to provide the personal cloud solution. Whole thing probably costs less than a Mac mini too!

gugy · Jun 12, 2014

whoiare said:
Im not sure why you are making this way more complex then it has to be with all the NAS/server type things. The solution is simple, just will require a bit of upfront work to get all your media in a correct order.

If your whole house has macs/Idevices then there is nothing more simpler than running everything through itunes. so to answer your questions

1. you dont want all your media connected to the TV. you want all over media connected to a main mac mini somewhere else in the house. You want to have one main itunes library. Each member of the house can have their own mac login and have access to this shared library in order to add media to their own idevice. Any mac on the same LAN will also have access to this shared itunes library. You then want apple tvs connected to every tv. All with home sharing, all with netflix, all with parental controls installed so they cant buy/rent anything etc.
2. in order to get internet everywhere and have a backup just get a time machine.
3. Wait for Yosemite which will allow icloud to become a file server. Buy the largest package. and you can share documents with certain users right from the cloud.

i was on the XBMC/PLex server kick for a while. The only real reason was because i had a mixed bag of files. avi/mkv etc. But i decided to take the plunge and convert all my media to itunes friendly formats/tag everything properly and have a pristine looking itunes. This seems daunting but it really forces you to filter out your media. As in youll find movies/tvshows etc that you KNOW you will never watch a again. So instead of wasting space you just delete them.

With the combination of netflix and itunes i hardly find time to watch OLDER movies and they are maybe 2 tv shows that we would ever truly watch again. I have about 30 or so movies that i KNOW i would watch again, but thats out of the 1000+ i have in itunes.

whats nice about having everything in itunes and using idevices and apple tvs to access itunes throughout the house is the syncing. You can start a movie on an atv...close it...reopen on an ipad and it tracks your position. Play counts can be updated by every device. ratings all stay synced. This even applies to netflix.

i have a 2010 mac mini with a 3tb harddrive attached using firewire800 which houses my itunes/pics/backup. the wife and i both have iphones/ipads/ipods. i have 3 atvs throughout the house. various airplay speakers, and one other imac. wirelessy syncing files to iphones and ipads. Putting music/videos on ipods that live in the car. starting movies in the theater room only to finish them in the bedroom. running whole house speaker using remote app and being able to control the music through said idevices. playing 3 different movies in 3 different places at the same time. sharing calendars/numbers files all through icloud. all flawless.
cant wait to see the new family icloud services with iOS8 and icloud drive and hopefully a new ATV where we can take advantage of all itunes has to offer.

The only draw back of the atv so far is the sorting and searching. Plex/XBMC are much nicer in this respect. But seriously that is it.

summary:
become an all apple home if you arent already. Make itunes as nice as possible - filter out things you KNOW you wont ever use. i use to be borderline media hoarder. But taking a step back and seeing how i really use my media it becomes more and more clear that there will ALWAYS be something new to watch...and unless the show/movie etc is THAT good i typically will always opt for watching something new than something ive already seen. even with music i find myself more and more streaming itunes radio than my own personal library just because ive heard all these songs before.

Thanks for taking the time to write your post.
Yeah, it makes sense to go MacMini all the way.

My whole household is Apple so it makes sense to stick to it.
Cheers

maturola · Jun 16, 2014

I'm on the same boat as Crazy Badger, Custom build a Freenas Box for way less than a mini, and run everything out if it. Works like a charm

Edit: I'm running the following on my FreeNAS box (Plex Server, OwnCloud, Sabnzbd, Sickbeard, Newsnab, Time Machine Share)

nebo1ss · Jun 16, 2014

coops said:
In the Synology package centre is the Plex server app. Install it and the plex server runs natively on the synology, point it at the tv and movies you want to stream.

NPlayer on my ipad can see the synology file system using FTP and will play shows and movies ok. Vlc also sees servers/network drives etc.

There are potential problems with what you are recommending.

1. Plex server does not run on all Synology Boxes.

2. Even when it does run, the server most likely will not support trans-coding unless you have a top level model.

I use both a Mac Mini and a Synology Nas. Plex Client and Server runs on the Mac mini with the Mini Connected HDMI to my main TV in the living room. I also run a Couple of Samsung Smart tvs that support the Plex client and hence have no need for Apple TV's.

The Synology is used to store all my Media. I have a USB 3 Lacie Porche 3Gbit disc connected to the NAS that automatically does incremental backups of Media Data every night.

I use the NAS to do Time Machine backups for three machines, but they are not stored on the NAS. i have an additional external USB 3 drive connected to the NAS and that is where the backups are stored.

The NAS is also used as a private Cloud for my music files and Office Documents. This allows me to take the laptops off the network and have access to all my files and everything is updated when I reconnect.

3282869 · Mar 28, 2015

There's a much simpler solution. I understand the matter of simplification for those in your household who like the AppleTV interface, however you can easily cutout the AppleTV and simplify everything to just a Synology DS and a Mac Mini, run VLC on the Mini with a direct link alias to your Synology Movies folder, and run the movie file in VLC. Done. Restricting yourself to Apple's formats will only be regrettable down the road as your digitized media will be lossy, creating as lossless an encode/transcode as possible will "future proof" your media.

As I had a lot of Blu-Ray media and 2 Mac Pro's, I wanted to achieve as lossless an encode/transcode as possible. I spent 6 months using one Blu-Ray and learning everything I could on Handbrake (the BEST and only app you should ever use for film encoding). I studied the forums carefully and produced many various encodes of the same Blu-Ray movie using Handbrakes "Advanced" settings. I played each film on the same system (at the time was a Pioneer Plasma, I had two side by side) and compared it to the original. I was finally able to get a Blu-Ray film with DTS-Passthru with additional audio tracks down to 4-10GB's. (NOTE: The first audio track of any movie needs to be stereo for iDevice's, then AC3/DTS/etc tracks can follow, as many as you want).

Once I was satisfied with the results, I saved the preset and made another for 720P. It took me about a year, a few rips a week, for my 1000+ film collection to be digitized. The problems with using the current AppleTV are lack of full codec support. This was especially important for DTS sound on Blu-Ray files. In no way was I going to reduce the quality of my movies to appease Apple's formats; they're limiting and years down the road you will regret it.

The best option was to use a Synology DS and a 2012 Mac Mini connected to my AEBS using CAT6 cables (CAT5e should work fine for most, but if you have CAT6 cables, use them). On the Mac Mini, I only have iTunes and VLC on the dock and created a shortcut to the Movies folder from the server on the desktop and as a Stack on the Dock that automatically mounts when rebooting the Mac Mini (if you have to). VLC (free) is the best media player for Mac and Windows, highly recommend it. I placed each film in its own folder with the name of the movie, so scrolling through Finder in OS X is simple. No need for a GUI other than OS X. HDMI goes into my Pioneer AVR and feeds into my flatscreen. Using Harmony Smart Control (or Universal Remote RF/IR systems) makes it easy for anyone to open a movie on the Mac Mini. Best of all, each film has subtitles, numerous tracks such as commentary and full pass-thru surround sound tracks, all of which can be selected in VLC. Set VLC as your main media player (select a film, "Get Info", then "Open with" and select VLC, do this for every format: mkv, m4v, mp4, mov, avi, etc).

Bottom line:
- Synology Server (best as it's browser based DSM 5.x software has many free packages that allow streaming away from home using "Quickconnect")
- Mac Mini
- CAT6 cables

Synology will host your media, configure your Mac Mini to auto-mount it upon boot and create links to the Movies folder on your server to the Mac Mini.

Use VLC for your media player.

Do not encode/transcode your media based on Apple's spec's. Long term you will regret this as you will lose quality.

Create as lossless a rip/transcode as possible using the free app "Handbrake" and spend time finding what settings work best for your needs and save the final preset. Rip your media (use pass-thru for audio, make sure first audio track is stereo for iOS, then add as many as you want). Include subtitles (Subler is the best app for seeing what a movie file contains, movie files are just "containers" that hold your audio, video, subtitle and chapter info. You can add or remove such without recoding the file), and done.

AFEPPL · Mar 28, 2015

I too use the DS414 and it works really really well.
I don't see the need for a Mac mini at all. You can run iTunes on any device you have around the house and just use home share your library to allow ATVs to connect. I rip all my BR movies at full/original size to the NAS device and then update the file with the metadata and add it into iTunes.

All my ATV devices are also over CAT6 so streaming to 5 devices at once even at 1080P is not an issue - something you could not hope to achieve over a WiFi connection or ApplePlay.

I'm all for simple, you just don't need to make this complicated.
itunes, NAS for storage and ATV for the interface. The 4 TVs upstairs are all Samsung and support DLNA so you can just cut out iTunes altogether if you wanted to.

3282869 · Mar 28, 2015

AFEPPL said:
I too use the DS414 and it works really really well.
I don't see the need for a Mac mini at all. You can run iTunes on any device you have around the house and just use home share your library to allow ATVs to connect. I rip all my BR movies at full/original size to the NAS device and then update the file with the metadata and add it into iTunes.

All my ATV devices are also over CAT6 so streaming to 5 devices at once even at 1080P is not an issue - something you could not hope to achieve over a WiFi connection or ApplePlay.

I'm all for simple, you just don't need to make this complicated.
itunes, NAS for storage and ATV for the interface. The 4 TVs upstairs are all Samsung and support DLNA so you can just cut out iTunes altogether if you wanted to.

If you're doing that, you are not playing as lossless a Blu-Ray/1080P encode as you think and you lost the DTS surround sound as the AppleTV and iTunes cannot support it. It doesn't even support AC3 sound. You're essentially playing an iTunes 1080P film which is actually 1080i, so you aren't really playing a Blu-Ray quality film. As I chucked my Blu-Ray's, there was no way I was risking a lossy film. It's not complicated at all, you just need to understand how the systems work. I suppose my film background and having been a part of Plex and XBMC development and many other qualifications makes my post seem extreme in nature, but believe me, it's advice best taken.

If you're playing anything via iTunes or even a jailbroken AppleTV 2 (current 3rd gen's are not jailbreakable), you're not truly playing high quality media.

AFEPPL · Mar 28, 2015

The ATVs are connected to an AMP - they simply pass through DTS as far as i can see. I'm not using handbrake, so i don't need to worry about all the different Audio tracks. The DTS logo is illuminated on the AMP as is NEO6. Bitrate based on the TV info is 15Mbps - which is what i'd expect for a dual layer BR encoded with H.264 codec.

Yep its not DTS-HD (HR or master) or ES, so the Audio is not lossless for sure.

3282869 · Mar 28, 2015

AFEPPL said:
The ATVs are connected to an AMP - they simply pass through DTS as far as i can see. The DTS logo is illuminated on the AMP as is NEO6. Bitrate based on the TV info is 15Mbps - which is what i'd expect for a dual layer BR encoded with H.264 codec.

Sorry but ATV does not support DTS. Never has. The AMP (or AVR) has nothing to do with it as HDMI carries the signal to the ATV which handles the transcoding, even if you are passing your HDMI connections through your system to your TV/Devices, the hardware of the ATV handles the work. If the source is lossy, you cannot "upscale" it no matter the AMP. What matters is what is in the container and how you produced the file. The AMP is displaying a "false positive", which happens based on the AMP's features/quality/design.

Also, Blu-Ray movies are usually 54Mbps, but truly 40Mbps and variable depending on what is being pushed out (action scenes will require higher values versus slower scenes). 15Mbps is barely 720P. I could send you some links, they would definitely help out. Additionally, H.264 compression is simply compression (H.265 is already replacing 264), what matters is how you are encoding the file and with what values (reference frames, constant quality versus variable, FPS, analysis settings, etc.).

Download Subler and drop one of your 1080P files into it and check out what is in your movie. It will list all the tracks; video, audio, subtitles, chapters. Look at what it reports. Then play it through VLC and open the Media info window and check out the stats for a more accurate read.

As for Handbrake, here is my x264 Advanced Option String for high end Blu-Ray encodes (these are not playable on any device aside from Mac's and other full systems, which is why Synology is great for playing the exact files on iDevices and other mobile platforms):

b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=50:subq=10:ref=8: psy-rd=1.5,0.1:analyse=all:trellis=2:bframes=8:aq-strength=1.2:me=umh:merange=32

Here is the link to Apple TV specs: https://www.apple.com/appletv/specs/

Audio Formats:

HE-AAC (V1), AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4), Apple Lossless, AIFF, and WAV; Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound pass-through

The AMP/AVR does not sparse out the tracks - meaning it can't push out the video in a file container and separate the audio for it to process, it simply receives the signals from the AppleTV HDMI connection which does the work. It may try to upscale the signal, but it's still not DTS. This is why videophiles would never use an AppleTV or such device, unless you're using the original source, you're best off producing a digital encode as lossless as possible and storing it as a file on your server/system/etc. and playing it via a fully robust media application. All the GUI's and such are pretty and user friendly, but they are extremely limiting.

Blu-Ray Info from Blu-Ray.com:

However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps)

AFEPPL · Mar 28, 2015

I don't use Handbrake to rip movies.

Not used VLC before so I'm not sure what I'm looking at if I'm honest.
The stats are saying input bitrate of 15000kb/s and stream is around the same - clearly they are moving around all the time.

Frame rate is 23.977022 H264 part10 with stereo 44100Hz; file size is 14.15GB

Santabean2000 · Mar 28, 2015

Boyd01 said:
From what I understand, the the Synology can't do that on its own. You would need a computer running iTunes if you want to access your video on your AppleTV.

Not true. See below.

jlc1978 said:
Not quit the case. The Synolgy will stream apps to iTV via their DS Video App independent of the computer running iTunes; it also lets you watch them on an iPad/iPhone. Pretty neat App.

The DS apps are awesome. As someone who has both a mini and now also Synology, I can attest to the latter being the better solution.

Large disks, loads of space and super simple apps = perfect.

I use the Synology for my data and simply access the media via the DS File app (can be any format basically, i.e. no ripping required [VLC also works]) and push it to my TV.

I like the convenience and simplicity. Just works.

Networkovic · Apr 7, 2015

Lots of conflicting opinion in here. I need to make a similar decision for consolidating media and creating a system allowing for multiple users of one library (photos, music, movies). In addition, I need FTP or VPN type access to another drive containing work data.

Can someone verify if the following will work to accomplish this?

1) Use an AEBS as a central hub to connect a Mac Mini, an external HDD and a NAS (ethernet/usb).

2) Use the Mac Mini as the central store for streaming photos, music and video. With Itunes and Photos installed, home sharing should allow streaming access (over wifi) for all photo, music and video files to any AppleTVs, laptops and mobile devices on the same network.

3) Laptops on the same network can wirelessly mount the USB HDD connected to the AEBS. This volume will be dedicated to "work" files, like Office documents, Creative Cloud resources, etc. Somehow, I need to be able to FTP from offsite. Is this possible?

4) Use the NAS as the destination for all Time Machine backups of the Mac Mini and 3 network laptops (one including the external HDD).

Does this sound right? I went a little overboard.. here's a graphic to help illustrate what I'm envisioning:

Boyd01 · Apr 8, 2015

Is AEBS and airport EXTREME or airport EXPRESS? I have the current generation time capsule, which is basically an airport extreme with an internal disk.

If you connect an external USB drive the an airport extreme, it is really slow. It might meet your needs, but don't expect snappy performance. Here are some speed tests: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1747622/

If you are getting a NAS, why don't you just use that for all your storage? Or you could install MacOSX server on the Mini, I think it costs $20 at the app store.

The Airport Extreme supports Back to my Mac so I guess you could use that for remote access but I have not tried myself.

Networkovic · Apr 8, 2015

Boyd01 said:
If you connect an external USB drive the an airport extreme, it is really slow. It might meet your needs, but don't expect snappy performance. Here are some speed tests: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1747622/

It's an Airpot Extreme (an old model). Moving large files around would happen often so speed will matter. I figured using a wired connection (thunderbolt) to the HDD while home would be necessary, but should I expect terribly slow performance for any wireless connections to any of the hardware attached to the AEBS (streaming from the Mini, etc.)? I don't know anything about networking.. can the NAS/HDD or Mini be connected to the cable router instead of the AEBS?

Boyd01 said:
If you are getting a NAS, why don't you just use that for all your storage? Or you could install MacOSX server on the Mini, I think it costs $20 at the app store.

I need to have a physical volume in the home office allowing for the thunderbolt connection. The AEBS/Mini/NAS would live in the living room. I also figured it made sense to have a separate disk from the NAS which then allows the NAS to be dedicated to backup. But this might be the wrong way to think about it. Basically, I'm stuck understanding what's necessary for optimal streaming to occur, where it's best to host that media and what part of this setup would provide the ability to FTP to the HDD and/or NAS.

What's the difference here between running the NAS + Mini, vs NAS + Mini w/ Server installed? Does Server allow FTP, and if so, does that mean the HDD needs to be an external off the Mini?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the help.

Boyd01 · Apr 8, 2015

Does your AEBS support gigabit ethernet? The new ones do, not familiar with older models. For best performance you would use wired ethernet for everything. Wireless 802.11ac wifi is also very fast, but an old AEBS doesn't support it and only the newer macs support (since about 2013).

Why do you need thunderbolt? If you are editing video that might be needed, but gigabit ethernet is pretty fast - I get over 100MB/sec copying files on the LAN. I have a few inexpensive USB3 disks that give me about 170MB/s connected directly to the computer. A USB2 disk is only about 30MB/s. And an external disk on the AEBS is only about 20MB/s.

Anyway Apple makes a thunderbolt to gigabit ethernet converter if you want to connect directly to your network from a MacBook Air or other computer without an ethernet port. I use USB3 to gigabit ethernet converter with my MacBook Air.

Sounds like the Mac Mini plus some external disks would do everything you need. Just leave iTunes running on it and you will be able to access your library from all your Macs, AppleTVs and iOS devices.

I don't use MacOSX Server, but it looks like it could handle the rest - see: https://www.apple.com/osx/server/features/

Of course, there are many different ways to do things and maybe a NAS would offer some advantages. I decided it wouldn't do anything for me, buy my needs are a bit different.

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