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driftless

macrumors 65816
Sep 2, 2011
1,486
183
Chicago-area
Understood. And with Dropbox, you can't store files in your Mac's Dropbox folder that are larger than your Dropbox storage. So effectively, it's the Dropbox cloud storage size that controls how much you can also store offline and also have it always available. Even if you have a 1TB HDD, if your Dropbox account is only 20GB then that is your limit. The size of each online and offline Dropbox folders are not independent of each other, they are exactly the same.

The unknown question regarding syncing across all devices is whether that is a mandatory feature; i.e., all Photos curated by the app have to always be available everywhere, or will their be a special "sync" folder where you can mark only certain pictures for syncing. The latter would lend itself to offline storage. The former would not unless you had a lot of iCloud storage. Apple is making up to 1TB iCloud storage available.

Yes, the size of the online storage is a serious concern given the Apple's iCloud storage pricing. I am guessing that it will be upgraded version of Photostream coupled with a referenced library system. At least, that is what I hope will happen. Like many, I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised with the new app.
 

DudeDad

macrumors 6502a
Jul 16, 2009
717
309
Simply not true: https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-lightroom.html

-> Lightroom 5 Standalone (bottom right)



Additionally it is part of several "cloud packages".

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Apparently you have never used any of Lightroom or Aperture: they're RAW developers plus some additional basic image processing (adjusting colours, removing dust, contrast enhancement, some basic brush techniques to locally adjust brightness etc.). Most importantly, they archive and index your photos.

Simply said: they change pixels, but do not move pixels around (nor do they support layers etc.).

They are never meant to be Photoshop! But the most important part: all editing is non-destructive.

I did not see the standalone still there. I do have both Aperture and LR and certainly understand what they do and do not do. Try to be a bit more arrogant next time.
 

Menel

Suspended
Aug 4, 2011
6,351
1,356
Yes, the size of the online storage is a serious concern given the Apple's iCloud storage pricing. I am guessing that it will be upgraded version of Photostream coupled with a referenced library system. At least, that is what I hope will happen. Like many, I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised with the new app.

Cheaper than OneDrive, Dropbox, or Box.net.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
Typically iPhoto (cannot speak for Aperture, but since its the same Library format I guess it is true there as well) "hides" the photos from you "somewhere in the local file system", once imported.
It hides the files and only shows the images instead.

And it places them where it sees fit.
iTunes does as well but still the vast majority has no problem with that.

we all know the original and edited photos are not really "gone", they are still accessible in the "iPhoto Library" which is nothing more than a "Bundle" (or "Package"), so you can still access the files therein (by right-clicking etc.). But the way/structure your photos are stored therein is not meant to be changed (and you better not do it!).
It is not the edited images are gone or not gone, it is simply that with non-destructive editors, the edited photos simply doesn't exist as a file yet until you export it.

This is in stark contrast how e.g. Lightroom organises the photos! The primary structure 1:1 reflects your file hierarchy!
Only in one direction, whatever you move inside LR will be moved in the Finder as well. And the Finder normally only sees the originals, it doesn't see the edited images as they don't exist yet as files. And that is without adding Albums/Collections or Versions/Virtual Copies which also don't exist in the Finder.
In fact, you can mess around in the file system (move/copy/add/delete photos) and then "sync" those changes with the Lightroom hierarchy.
Sure, for the originals you can match inside LR what you do in the Finder manually on a folder by folder basis but that is not automatic.

Off course Lightroom also allows you do organise your photos with "(Smart) Collections" etc., similar to Aperture. But you always have full control about where your photos are stored and how they are organised! (And I prefer that).
As I said, that only applies to originals, not the edited images, not to virtual copies, not to collections and in one direction requires manual action. The advantage is that it lets you more easily use other raw converters and that it reassures people that if LR would fail to launch one day, they'd still see their folder structure.

The disadvantage is that you cannot fully exploit the potential of non-destructive editing as you cannot integrate collections and virtual copies in your normal folder hierarchy but are forced to browse for stuff in two separate folder structures.


But again, this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Apple now (re-!)introduced their iCloud Disk (or whatever it is called now).
iCloud Drive just disproves the notion that Apple is so opposed to users managing their own files that would never make it easier to do so.

----------

I'm not really convinced of the comparison there; iPhoto is the basic editor compared to Aperture, but they're now being rolled together into what looks like a photo library manager, with both simple and advanced editing tools.

So the tools in Quicktime Player in that regard are the simple tools, while iMovie's are more advanced (albeit including composition as well, but then Quicktime can copy/paste movie segments too). But my point also is that Quicktime Player lacks the concept of a media library, which means it's in a kind of funny position where for many users it doesn't really do anything anymore, as it's generally better to move your movies into iTunes if you can since it organises them into a media library. But really the opposite would be better; with that media library moving out into its own, movie centric app. Okay, maybe combining iMovie could be a step too far, but I could absolutely see Quicktime Player being replaced with a Movies app aimed at organising your movie and TV show library, with some simple editing tools for tweaking things like home movies.

If you want to view a single movie file, you'll launch Quicktime (or have it launched by just double-clicking the file), this is the same with Preview. And as Quicktime lacks the concept of a media library, so does Preview. And if you want to throw in Aperture, you can compare: Preview -> iPhoto -> Aperture with Quicktime -> iMovie -> FCP.

And yes, you could take out movies and TV shows from iTunes and split the latter into an audio and a video half. But that wouldn't affect QT, you'd still need an app to launch that single movie file you just want to view without adding it to your library, the same way as Preview won't go away because of the new Photos app.
 

AlphaVoyager

macrumors newbie
Mar 6, 2011
5
1
Ya know what I'd love to see (but will never happen) is Apple taking up the XMP metadata format (and *not* as a sidecar file) for photo tags. XMP metadata is really useful and there's so much that can be packed into a single jpg. If Apple's "Photos" supported it, I could (in theory) apply a bunch of tags and regions to a photo and write that data directly into the jpg; I could then send that jpg to another user (whether Mac or PC) and all the entered tags would be there for them to access.

Yes, I appreciate that there is EXIF and ITPC, but it is limited compared to xmp.

Oh well, here's to dreaming.
 

driftless

macrumors 65816
Sep 2, 2011
1,486
183
Chicago-area
Remember the Adobe Revel concept? It's still running but now has a 2 gig limit.

I am a CC member and I totally forgot about Revel. I wonder if it comes with CC? I just checked the Revel FAQ and it looks like the premium version is $59.99/yr or $5.99/mo and has unlimited storage. It is not a part of CC, CC members only get the 2 GB limit.
 

krravi

macrumors 65816
Nov 30, 2010
1,173
0
That is good news. It better be better than Aperture.

I am not sure. It says "Certain professional features"... Apple is targeting this for common users than pro's. My guess is their lack of updates has driven customers to Lightroom and there is no point investing huge amount of resources to develop that anymore.
 

whtrbt7

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2011
1,015
73
Photos is bringing Aperture to the current state of technology. I'm a professional photographer that makes 100% of my living as a photographer and the most important aspect of the job is asset management, not editing. People pay me for my photos, not for my editing. The new Photos App will pretty much bring my workflow up to speed so I can quickly upload RAWs and JPGs to iCloud via iPhone or iPad during or after a shoot and then allow me to quickly edit on the go on the device of my choosing. This means that I can edit EXIF, cull images, and some small edits to photos on an iPad and then continue when I get back to the studio. One of the things I really like about the new controls is that Apple has combined several adjustments to a single slider control so I can quickly adjust overall exposure and white balance and then fine tune it later on should I choose. I can still choose to use Lightroom or Photoshop to do more intensive edits if needed after using Photos but at least having everything in iCloud will be much better asset management than the current storage on RAID arrays which have now gone all the way to about 12TB of data which means that I now handle multiple Aperture Libraries per assignment which definitely can't be done easily in Lightroom and forget about Adobe CC where storage is quite limited. Overall, I see this as a very positive effort for actual photographers and amateur hobbyists to have their photos accessible on multiple devices and a faster and easier editing process.
 

albusseverus

macrumors 6502a
Nov 28, 2007
744
154
Photos is bringing Aperture to the current state of technology. I'm a professional photographer that makes 100% of my living as a photographer and the most important aspect of the job is asset management, not editing. People pay me for my photos, not for my editing. The new Photos App will pretty much bring my workflow up to speed so I can quickly upload RAWs and JPGs to iCloud via iPhone or iPad during or after a shoot and then allow me to quickly edit on the go on the device of my choosing. This means that I can edit EXIF, cull images, and some small edits to photos on an iPad and then continue when I get back to the studio. One of the things I really like about the new controls is that Apple has combined several adjustments to a single slider control so I can quickly adjust overall exposure and white balance and then fine tune it later on should I choose. I can still choose to use Lightroom or Photoshop to do more intensive edits if needed after using Photos but at least having everything in iCloud will be much better asset management than the current storage on RAID arrays which have now gone all the way to about 12TB of data which means that I now handle multiple Aperture Libraries per assignment which definitely can't be done easily in Lightroom and forget about Adobe CC where storage is quite limited. Overall, I see this as a very positive effort for actual photographers and amateur hobbyists to have their photos accessible on multiple devices and a faster and easier editing process.

Somehow, I don't see iCloud having multiple libraries, nor handling 12TB very smoothly. Any more than basic triage - focus and good shot/bad shot, would be unlikely as well. Sure you can do a quick edit to a photo on iPad, maybe even a preview for the client, but professional editing will still need to be done on a large display, with lots of grunt behind it. I've done some sparkling edits on iPad, but when you see them on a Mac, it's like 'who are you kidding?'

I'd dearly love to see Photos with good asset management capabilities, but iCloud won't be that, not even for enthusiasts. I do about 1000 shots a month on top of day-to-day point and shoot iPhone stuff & iCloud just won't cut it for me.

I'll be wanting local storage & backup, and a means of managing, judging and comparing all my shots. RAW treatment and editing can be outside the asset manager. I have no love for adobe, and so far Media Pro is ahead by a nose, followed by Photo Director, which goes a little bit further and has lots of editing, including lens correction, but not my particular wide angle lens, of course. Dark Table looks interesting, until you try to actually use that unix-like interface, with no standard file dialogues nor even the concept of a desktop, then you realise you're a long way from home.

I'd much rather use standard Apple apps, but cloud storage is going to kill it for me, no matter how clever the app is. I was holding off buying Aperture in case an upgrade was coming. If Apple sold it for $50, I'd still buy it and put off my decision for a year. But since lens correction is a must, these days, I guess I'm looking elsewhere.
 

Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
8,860
11,383
Finding images with adjustments is easy, exporting as well, the problem is importing them retaining the organisation structure (essentially you add the path for each album or project as a keyword to all images in it and after a re-import use that to re-create the folder structure). Since exporting and importing can retain the last two folder levels, only the part of the path above that needs to be added as a keyword (though, that only works for projects and folders containing the project, not for albums).
Image

Thanks!
 

CausticPuppy

macrumors 68000
May 1, 2012
1,536
68
That's not really saying much since there are less and more sophisticated noise reduction algorithms available. Cameras have fast but relatively unsophisticated NR algorithms built in, whereas Photoshop has more sophisticated but slower NR.

True, but we do know that Lightroom does not use GPU acceleration. GPU acceleration could certainly result in a order of magnitude increase in performance for noise reduction and other algorithms.
 
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