Surface Pro 3 First Impressions

So this is interesting, having read this thread here, as well as a similar thread on SurfaceForums about how the SP3 has finally replaced their laptop.

I'm on the bubble overall....I'm typing this on my rMBP 15, and it's a machine I pretty much love. More horsepower than I actually need, but I'd rather have too much, than too little.

That being said, it's 4.5 lbs that I carry with me to work every day, and it doesn't have the ultra portability that I really like (had a MBA 13 before, but the screen resolution was too restrictive for me....I run my rMBP at 2880 x 1800 natively....).

So, I've been in the local MS store a couple of times lately, playing with the SP3. I've had an SP1 (horrendous battery life) and SP2 (decent machine, but ineffective as a laptop replacement due to cramped display).

However, the SP3 seems to be much more suitable....12 inches is a decent sized display, especially in primary use as a tablet, and at just over 2 lbs (with Type Cover) it's lighter than my rMBP to carry on a daily basis.

So I'm thinking two things. One, I don't need all the extra HP that my rMBP provides to me, as I never use my Bootcamp install (part of the reason for getting 1 TB SSD and 16 GB of RAM), and part of me likes the slightly lower weight of the SP3.

That being said, my rMBP has been the best laptop I've ever owned (I've been an Apple fan for awhile now, and still run a Mac-Mini as my desktop machine at home). As I type this, I can't imagine getting rid of my rMBP for a SP3.

But I'm also not convinced (yet) that downsizing a few devices wouldn't be bad....and I could come out of this ahead a few dollars (a fully loaded 2014 rMBP should still fetch more than a fully loaded SP3).

Decisions, decisions.




Patrick

For me a pen and a touch screen are major part of thinking about sp3. But im still waiting to get to know better about the model with i7 and is it still "laggy" and did they fix those things that Gabe (Penny Arcade) mentioned earlier to MS. Just sold my buggy Ipad Air and I dont want to get another buggy device. Still having my Note 10.1 with a real pen support dn of course both laptops. Only thing that sp3 is quite expensive, so it should be better than early releases... otherwise it will be DOA for me.

Patrick B said:

...

Click to expand...

I'm just throwing this out there. If I had loved my laptop, I would not have even considered the SP3. Honestly an extra 2.5 pounds is not that much especially if you are already used to it. The SP3 makes a pretty lousy tablet and the apps that are available for it are not that great if you want to use it as a tablet. Some of them are pretty cool. I really like the apps that Microsoft bundled with it. But outside of that, I am running desktop versions of almost everything (spotify, amazon, vudu).

Don't get me wrong...I really like my SP3 and for me it was the right choice. However, I think it is such a hit or miss that it wouldn't be worth giving up a laptop that you love for unless you want/need the pen input. It isn't worth the risk. If you have the opportunity to try out the SP3 for a week before selling your rMBP, then maybe it would be something to consider. I really think it would take about that long with regular use to determine if it is what you want.

Patrick B said:

So, I've been in the local MS store a couple of times lately, playing with the SP3. I've had an SP1 (horrendous battery life) and SP2 (decent machine, but ineffective as a laptop replacement due to cramped display).

However, the SP3 seems to be much more suitable....12 inches is a decent sized display, especially in primary use as a tablet, and at just over 2 lbs (with Type Cover) it's lighter than my rMBP to carry on a daily basis.

So I'm thinking two things. One, I don't need all the extra HP that my rMBP provides to me, as I never use my Bootcamp install (part of the reason for getting 1 TB SSD and 16 GB of RAM), and part of me likes the slightly lower weight of the SP3.

That being said, my rMBP has been the best laptop I've ever owned (I've been an Apple fan for awhile now, and still run a Mac-Mini as my desktop machine at home). As I type this, I can't imagine getting rid of my rMBP for a SP3.

But I'm also not convinced (yet) that downsizing a few devices wouldn't be bad....and I could come out of this ahead a few dollars (a fully loaded 2014 rMBP should still fetch more than a fully loaded SP3).

Decisions, decisions.

Patrick

Click to expand...

Since you have previously owned an SP1 and SP2 you are fully aware of what Surface ownership entails and know the state of Modern UI apps. I've traded my Surface RT in for a Surface 2 which I later on traded in for a 11" Macbook Air. It was a terrific move for me.

There is a persistent rumor of a 12" Macbook Air. Depending upon the aspect ratio it might be a viable option for you if you are interested in a change from your rMBP.

For me, one of the challenges has been the differences in available software between the two platforms. It took a while to find suitable alternatives when I made the switch from Windows to OSX. And often I have found the alternatives to be a better fit for my use cases.

With Office 365, I have a great powerful cross-platform productivity suite... and I still have access to Pages (iWork '09) which is invaluable for personal publishing.

Decisions, decisions is right! It's great to have to so many interesting alternatives to consider.

nixiemaiden said:

I'm just throwing this out there. If I had loved my laptop, I would not have even considered the SP3. Honestly an extra 2.5 pounds is not that much especially if you are already used to it. The SP3 makes a pretty lousy tablet and the apps that are available for it are not that great if you want to use it as a tablet. Some of them are pretty cool. I really like the apps that Microsoft bundled with it. But outside of that, I am running desktop versions of almost everything (spotify, amazon, vudu).

Don't get me wrong...I really like my SP3 and for me it was the right choice. However, I think it is such a hit or miss that it wouldn't be worth giving up a laptop that you love for unless you want/need the pen input. It isn't worth the risk. If you have the opportunity to try out the SP3 for a week before selling your rMBP, then maybe it would be something to consider. I really think it would take about that long with regular use to determine if it is what you want.

Click to expand...

Well, to add in some additional details, I also have a retina iPad Mini that covers my pure "tablet" needs, though honestly I mostly browse the web with it and read magazines online with it (though I must admit, that last one IS a biggie for me). I wouldn't get rid of my iPad Mini....

And yes, I'd probably pick up an SP3 and play with it for the first 13 days to see if I cared enough to keep it.

sracer said:

Since you have previously owned an SP1 and SP2 you are fully aware of what Surface ownership entails and know the state of Modern UI apps. I've traded my Surface RT in for a Surface 2 which I later on traded in for a 11" Macbook Air. It was a terrific move for me.

There is a persistent rumor of a 12" Macbook Air. Depending upon the aspect ratio it might be a viable option for you if you are interested in a change from your rMBP.

For me, one of the challenges has been the differences in available software between the two platforms. It took a while to find suitable alternatives when I made the switch from Windows to OSX. And often I have found the alternatives to be a better fit for my use cases.

With Office 365, I have a great powerful cross-platform productivity suite... and I still have access to Pages (iWork '09) which is invaluable for personal publishing.

Decisions, decisions is right! It's great to have to so many interesting alternatives to consider.

Click to expand...

A 12" MBA doesn't really make any sense to me....there's already an 11", and a 13"....splitting the difference doesn't really expand the market at all.

Honestly, I'd be more interested if they made a retina MBA....my 13" MBA was a perfectly satisfactory machine except for the lack of screen real-estate (so again, my rMBP is pretty much overkill for what I do on a day to day basis).

I also agree that it could be a little challenging to make the switch back to Windows on a full-time basis, given that I've been working within OSX for several years (and enjoying the various elements of OSX).

When I play around with one in the store, I can certainly see how it would suit all of my needs. When I sit at home or in my office using my rMBP, I wonder how much I might miss it?

That being said, the majority of my work is in Outlook, Powerpoint, Excel and browsing the web, so I'm not a huge user of the extra horsepower.

Two other factors that do play into my thought process though....my rMBP is my personal machine, even though I also use it for work. My work laptop is a 'classic' MBP which is scheduled for replacement in February, even though it sits locked in a drawer in my desk right now. So come Feb, I'll be able to pick up a MBA (13) or rMBP (13 or 15) anyway (though not fully spec'd out....2.3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD).

And I do have my Mac-Mini as my home machine as well....when I think about it that way, it's a no-brainer.

When I think about it in terms of giving up the potential performance of my rMBP, then I think, "why bother?".

Either way, it looks like a hell of a machine, no matter what I might decide to do.



Patrick

Patrick B said:

A 12" MBA doesn't really make any sense to me....there's already an 11", and a 13"....splitting the difference doesn't really expand the market at all.

Honestly, I'd be more interested if they made a retina MBA....my 13" MBA was a perfectly satisfactory machine except for the lack of screen real-estate (so again, my rMBP is pretty much overkill for what I do on a day to day basis).

Click to expand...

Part of the rumor of the 12" MBA though is that it will have a retina screen. It kind of makes sense to me. I would think that just converting the 11" and 13" to retina display, you are going to see a drop in battery life which is one of the major selling points to it. I think it will be kind of a test thing without messing with their current lines...just to see if people would prefer the higher res screen for a little less battery life. It is the only thing that makes sense to me as to why the MBA doesn't have a high resolution screen already.

Two other factors that do play into my thought process though....my rMBP is my personal machine, even though I also use it for work. My work laptop is a 'classic' MBP which is scheduled for replacement in February, even though it sits locked in a drawer in my desk right now. So come Feb, I'll be able to pick up a MBA (13) or rMBP (13 or 15) anyway (though not fully spec'd out....2.3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD).

Click to expand...

Well that changes things. I would definitely pick one up at least to see how it worked for me. Especially with a new laptop coming in February. Chances are if you keep your rMBP, the new one would just end up locked in a drawer as well. Unless you went with the MBA and used that for work instead and left the rMBP at home...

nixiemaiden said:

The SP3 makes a pretty lousy tablet and the apps that are available for it are not that great if you want to use it as a tablet. Some of them are pretty cool. I really like the apps that Microsoft bundled with it. But outside of that, I am running desktop versions of almost everything (spotify, amazon, vudu).

Click to expand...

I think the SP3 actually makes for a pretty good tablet. I agree the MS app store can't compete with Apple's, but I find the browser makes up for a lot of what's missing (not including games - that might be a deal breaker for some). Because the SP3 uses a full fledged PC browser, even in tablet mode, you don't need a bunch of apps tailored to do things that can't otherwise be done in a mobile browser. No HBO GO app? No problem - the website works great on the SP3. Zillow app not as good as iOS version? Again, no problem, because the Zillow website has full functionality on the SP3. It's actually kind of nice NOT to have to download an app for every little thing i want to do in tablet mode on the Surface.

The form factor did take a bit of getting used to - it's noticeably bigger than the iPad - but the larger screen and built in kickstand can come in handy too.

I've been using the SP3 for a couple weeks now. Windows 8.1 was a bit of learning curve for me, but I feel pretty confident the Surface will replace my MBA 11 and iPad 3 to become my one all be all desktop, notebook and tablet.

jwalker99 said:

I think the SP3 actually makes for a pretty good tablet. I agree the MS app store can't compete with Apple's, but I find the browser makes up for a lot of what's missing (not including games - that might be a deal breaker for some). Because the SP3 uses a full fledged PC browser, even in tablet mode, you don't need a bunch of apps tailored to do things that can't otherwise be done in a mobile browser. No HBO GO app? No problem - the website works great on the SP3. Zillow app not as good as iOS version? Again, no problem, because the Zillow website has full functionality on the SP3. It's actually kind of nice NOT to have to download an app for every little thing i want to do in tablet mode on the Surface.

The form factor did take a bit of getting used to - it's noticeably bigger than the iPad - but the larger screen and built in kickstand can come in handy too.

I've been using the SP3 for a couple weeks now. Windows 8.1 was a bit of learning curve for me, but I feel pretty confident the Surface will replace my MBA 11 and iPad 3 to become my one all be all desktop, notebook and tablet.

Click to expand...

I've bolded what many Surface advocates continue espouse as a "benefit". There are good reasons why some websites use apps to access their site and content. A major reason is that the site is not optimized for touch interface. So while loading a website directly in IE is better than nothing, it isn't always "better" than a custom app, and it isn't preferable to be the ONLY way.

In addition to that, app-ified websites are only a fraction of the apps available on iOS and Android.

dkersten said:

Also which version of One Note are you using? From my understanding there are two versions, a mobile version and a full desktop version. How has your use in One Note integrated into the other parts of your digital life (assuming it did)?

Click to expand...

There are two versions of onenote, but the notes accumulate to the same cloud space in one drive. I use the metro version for one page scratch notes
which i can then later integrate into onenote notebooks if you have the full app.

Biggest unexpected bonus of one note is how easy it makes it to fill out pdf contracts and paperwork.

My biggest qualm with onenote is the infinate page paradigm. I would love to conventional page paradigm per word and other notes apps.

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soulreaver99 said:

I use the kick stand all the time. I never realized how handy it was especially when watching movies on a plane. It's really adjustable and I every different situation has a different angle so I am working it daily. Kickstand so far has showed no signs of wear

Click to expand...

I think--like so many aspects of sp3--the kickstand can only be fully appreciated if you are using the pen. Whenever i have tried any other pen enabled device--the first issue is how do you prop it up to 30 degrees or so to facilitate pen work.


The who enhanced lapability thing is fluff. If you type on your lap--skip this product, period.

jwalker99 said:

I think the SP3 actually makes for a pretty good tablet. I agree the MS app store can't compete with Apple's, but I find the browser makes up for a lot of what's missing (not including games - that might be a deal breaker for some). Because the SP3 uses a full fledged PC browser, even in tablet mode, you don't need a bunch of apps tailored to do things that can't otherwise be done in a mobile browser. No HBO GO app? No problem - the website works great on the SP3. Zillow app not as good as iOS version? Again, no problem, because the Zillow website has full functionality on the SP3. It's actually kind of nice NOT to have to download an app for every little thing i want to do in tablet mode on the Surface.

The form factor did take a bit of getting used to - it's noticeably bigger than the iPad - but the larger screen and built in kickstand can come in handy too.

I've been using the SP3 for a couple weeks now. Windows 8.1 was a bit of learning curve for me, but I feel pretty confident the Surface will replace my MBA 11 and iPad 3 to become my one all be all desktop, notebook and tablet.

Click to expand...

This is a HUGE plus IMO, you have a FULL browser with no concerns about Flash, compatibility, etc etc. IE11 does an absolutely fantastic job at browsing webpages, and Metro IE11 is quite nice as well and very much geared for touch navigation. Microsoft really really did a nice job with Metro IE11 and incorporating it into the touch world.

I never understood the argument that webpages are not optimized for touch. If anything webpages are highly optimized for touch since the inception of things like hyperlinks. IE11 is extremely adept at scaling webpages as well, so it's not often that you get weird things like tiny elements, and if you do I'll bet it's the web developers fault for not adhering to a standard.

I don't think I'd put browsing the web on a SP3 on the same level as an ipad, it's miles ahead.

As for tablet use, some think it's a poor tablet. I think it depends on the user. Personally I find the ipad a poor tablet, but those are only my needs and of course others have different needs and love it.

sracer said:

I've bolded what many Surface advocates continue espouse as a "benefit". There are good reasons why some websites use apps to access their site and content. A major reason is that the site is not optimized for touch interface. So while loading a website directly in IE is better than nothing, it isn't always "better" than a custom app, and it isn't preferable to be the ONLY way.

In addition to that, app-ified websites are only a fraction of the apps available on iOS and Android.

Click to expand...

Well, be careful of a blanket statement like that. Plenty of apps, while not being simply an app-ified website, are still just a small screen interface pulling data from the same DB that the main website does. Look at many of the travel and travel productivity apps (airline specific apps, Trip Case, Trip Advisor, Expedia, FlightNetwork, Yelp etc) as examples.

And other productivity apps, such as Evernote, Twitter, LinkedIn, FB, news apps, Wikipedia are all just apps that pull data from central databases that are responsible for the full website as well.

Once you take games out of the equation, I'd guess that the mix is probably 50/50 between web-enabled apps vs true, stand-alone productivity tools (utilities, things like calculators, cameras, alarm clocks, unique interface apps like Flipboard, etc).

Having a full desktop browser certainly alleviates some of the lack of ready-made "apps" from the Microsoft Store.

Apps are designed to bring information into a suitable form-factor for the device in question. They're well suited to phones and smaller screen tablets, or browsers with restricted functionality compared to a desktop browser (this is becoming less of an issue over time).

While apps built for the Modern UI on the Windows store does give you some flexibility, it's less of an issue because you have multiple choices of browsers and desktop software available.

So this is a bit of a red-herring in my opinion.



Patrick

rowspaxe said:

There are two versions of onenote, but the notes accumulate to the same cloud space in one drive. I use the metro version for one page scratch notes
which i can then later integrate into onenote notebooks if you have the full app.

Biggest unexpected bonus of one note is how easy it makes it to fill out pdf contracts and paperwork.

My biggest qualm with onenote is the infinate page paradigm. I would love to conventional page paradigm per word and other notes apps.

----------



I think--like so many aspects of sp3--the kickstand can only be fully appreciated if you are using the pen. Whenever i have tried any other pen enabled device--the first issue is how do you prop it up to 30 degrees or so to facilitate pen work.


The who enhanced lapability thing is fluff. If you type on your lap--skip this product, period.

Click to expand...

You can have pages in oneNote, you simply hit the +page button to add pages. Also the kickstand is pretty awesome IMO, I've said it before but I think all tablets should have a kickstand as default. I find it invaluable in virtually every position and scenario I use it in.

Patrick B said:

Well, be careful of a blanket statement like that. Plenty of apps, while not being simply an app-ified website, are still just a small screen interface pulling data from the same DB that the main website does. Look at many of the travel and travel productivity apps (airline specific apps, Trip Case, Trip Advisor, Expedia, FlightNetwork, Yelp etc) as examples.

And other productivity apps, such as Evernote, Twitter, LinkedIn, FB, news apps, Wikipedia are all just apps that pull data from central databases that are responsible for the full website as well.

Once you take games out of the equation, I'd guess that the mix is probably 50/50 between web-enabled apps vs true, stand-alone productivity tools (utilities, things like calculators, cameras, alarm clocks, unique interface apps like Flipboard, etc).

Having a full desktop browser certainly alleviates some of the lack of ready-made "apps" from the Microsoft Store.

Click to expand...

And to which I agree. But it is a stop-gap compromise not a preferred solution.

Patrick B said:

Apps are designed to bring information into a suitable form-factor for the device in question. They're well suited to phones and smaller screen tablets, or browsers with restricted functionality compared to a desktop browser (this is becoming less of an issue over time).

While apps built for the Modern UI on the Windows store does give you some flexibility, it's less of an issue because you have multiple choices of browsers and desktop software available.

So this is a bit of a red-herring in my opinion.

Patrick

Click to expand...

Are you saying that the "lack of Modern UI apps" is a red-herring (because full browser and desktop solutions exist)? If so, then it seems that the conclusion to draw from that comment is that it is acceptable to have a disjoint (Modern UI + Desktop + browser) tablet experience.

sracer said:

And to which I agree. But it is a stop-gap compromise not a preferred solution.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with that. The classic interface exists, and largely has for several years now (minor tweaks not-withstanding). The Classic Windows desktop has not been a "stop-gap" measure, and despite how some may want the Modern UI to take over, it's really an alternate view, not necessarily a replacement view.

Using a full browser to view Trip Advisor instead of an app (perhaps not a great example, since Trip Advisor DOES exist in the Windows Store) doesn't reduce my functionality at all. In many ways in enhances it.

The notion that the interface should be apps and apps only seems short-sighted at best. The great thing about the SP3 (or really, any Windows 8.x tablet / notebook / laptop / ultrabook or Mac in Bootcamp) is that you can choose the tool best suited for the job you have at hand.

If I'm watching something via Plex or NetFlix, then a Modern UI app is my preference. If I'm browsing MacRumors, I prefer a full browser.

I happen to like the flexibility.

sracer said:

Are you saying that the "lack of Modern UI apps" is a red-herring (because full browser and desktop solutions exist)? If so, then it seems that the conclusion to draw from that comment is that it is acceptable to have a disjoint (Modern UI + Desktop + browser) tablet experience.

Click to expand...

Yes, and I'd say it is. On every modern laptop / notebook / ultrabook we already have that disjointed experience. Sure, I can load up "apps" in Dashboard on OSX, but is that the ideal experience for day to day operation? Heck, how many people even use Dashboard anymore?

But the disjointed experience is still there....OSX has LaunchPad, which is again, a disjointed, iOS vision experience grafted onto a Mac desktop (I just use Finder / Pathfinder and the Dock as my software launching tool). Launchpad doesn't solve any critical ease of use problems for OSX, so the question of what value is brings remains to be answered.

It's just as much of a red-herring to say that Windows 8.1 has a dual interface problem as it is with OSX, since Apple seems to be doing their best to stuff iOS into the OSX realm continuously.

And this coming from a guy with 2 MBPs, a Mac-Mini, 3 Apple TVs, an iPhone 5S and a retina iPad Mini. I don't currently own any Windows based machines, so my loyalties have been solidly Apple lately.

I liked my SP2 when I had it, but it wasn't good enough as a tablet to replace my iPad Mini, and it wasn't good enough as a laptop to replace my MBA.

I "think" (and I'll still need to truly try it out) that the SP3 could replace my MBP, with enhanced functionality (albeit with less raw HP).

I know this is MacRumors, but I'm giving MS some credit....the third time certainly appears to be the charm for the Surface Pro.



Patrick

Patrick B said:

The notion that the interface should be apps and apps only seems short-sighted at best. The great thing about the SP3 (or really, any Windows 8.x tablet / notebook / laptop / ultrabook or Mac in Bootcamp) is that you can choose the tool best suited for the job you have at hand.

Click to expand...

I really seems like Microsoft was leading this parade when they released Windows 8. Suddenly high end software was relegated to the dustbin of "legacy apps" running on--dare i say it--the "desktop". It seems like metro mania has subsided and MS has been backtracking to satisfy enterprise and power users.

The obvious motive for this miscue was greed--Microsoft trying to extract profit by forcing all applications to be sold through the metro store.

rowspaxe said:

I really seems like Microsoft was leading this parade when they released Windows 8. Suddenly high end software was relegated to the dustbin of "legacy apps" running on--dare i say it--the "desktop". It seems like metro mania has subsided and MS has been backtracking to satisfy enterprise and power users.

The obvious motive for this miscue was greed--Microsoft trying to extract profit by forcing all applications to be sold through the metro store.

Click to expand...

I don't think it was all greed, part of it was trying to keep up with the paradigm the iPad introduced. This "I want to write my masters thesis one handed on the subway on my iPad" mentality which misleads consumers into thinking the desktop and legacy programs are evil and to be avoided at all costs.

spinedoc77 said:

I don't think it was all greed, part of it was trying to keep up with the paradigm the iPad introduced. This "I want to write my masters thesis one handed on the subway on my iPad" mentality which misleads consumers into thinking the desktop and legacy programs are evil and to be avoided at all costs.

Click to expand...

While there is no need to get on the subway just so you can write your thesis on the iPad, if a subway commute is already part of your routine, then being able to work on your thesis while on the subway is a boost to your productivity. And in that case, tablet apps are definitely easier to use than a desktop app.

On the other hand, if you are sitting in an office all day, then there is no need for tablet apps, and "legacy" desktop apps will do just fine. So in our small law firm, we have no need for Windows 8 at all. Windows 7 and XP fills all our needs. Our plan is to keep chugging along on Windows 7, because we don't want to bother retraining our staff on Windows 8 when it offers no benefit to our workflow at all. In the meanwhile, many of our lawyers are buying iPads out of their own pockets, and using them to keep up with their emails and work on their cases while away from the office. So far, nobody has bought a Surface.

Microsoft imagines that a single device that does it all is what everybody wants. And yes, there are some people who would find that useful. But the fact is that the majority of the work force already has a Windows desktop, which is working fine and doesn't need to be replaced yet. So something like the iPad, that supplements the existing desktop, is more enticing than something that tries to replace the desktop. At least, that's how it's falling out at our law firm.

Night Spring said:

While there is no need to get on the subway just so you can write your thesis on the iPad, if a subway commute is already part of your routine, then being able to work on your thesis while on the subway is a boost to your productivity. And in that case, tablet apps are definitely easier to use than a desktop app.

On the other hand, if you are sitting in an office all day, then there is no need for tablet apps, and "legacy" desktop apps will do just fine. So in our small law firm, we have no need for Windows 8 at all. Windows 7 and XP fills all our needs. Our plan is to keep chugging along on Windows 7, because we don't want to bother retraining our staff on Windows 8 when it offers no benefit to our workflow at all. In the meanwhile, many of our lawyers are buying iPads out of their own pockets, and using them to keep up with their emails and work on their cases while away from the office. So far, nobody has bought a Surface.

Microsoft imagines that a single device that does it all is what everybody wants. And yes, there are some people who would find that useful. But the fact is that the majority of the work force already has a Windows desktop, which is working fine and doesn't need to be replaced yet. So something like the iPad, that supplements the existing desktop, is more enticing than something that tries to replace the desktop. At least, that's how it's falling out at our law firm.

Click to expand...

Someone once said that people don't know what they want until you show it to them. Smart man! While I agree that there aren't many compelling reasons for *consumers* to jump from Win7 at this time, the reasons for mobile enterprise workers are just the opposite. Deploying DirectAcess with win8.x/server2012 removes all the complexity and cost associated with doing it under win7 (which is why it was hardly ever done) and turns mobile machines into always-connected enterprise portals. Couple that with the portability and usability of the Surface Pro 3 hardware and it's an incredible solution. All our lawyers and other information workers are now flocking to the surface now that they've seen it in action with this configuration.

pesos said:

Someone once said that people don't know what they want until you show it to them. Smart man! While I agree that there aren't many compelling reasons for *consumers* to jump from Win7 at this time, the reasons for mobile enterprise workers are just the opposite. Deploying DirectAcess with win8.x/server2012 removes all the complexity and cost associated with doing it under win7 (which is why it was hardly ever done) and turns mobile machines into always-connected enterprise portals. Couple that with the portability and usability of the Surface Pro 3 hardware and it's an incredible solution. All our lawyers and other information workers are now flocking to the surface now that they've seen it in action with this configuration.

Click to expand...

Well, our firm is very small, so our needs are closer to that of a consumer than an enterprise. No doubt Microsoft is strong in serving enterprise needs, but no matter what the smart man said, consumers aren't ever going to find servers useful in the same way a big enterprise does. Actually, most consumers don't have an IT department to set up servers for them.

I recently read an article / blog post (unfortunately, I can't remember where I read it), which pointed out that Microsoft is thinking in terms of making devices for work that can also be used for personal entertainment. And Apple is making devices for personal use that can also be used for work. Somewhere along the way, the market for the latter type of device got bigger than the one for a Microsoft type device.

I think if the iPad didn't exist, then I would be amazed and raving at the Surface. But then that is part of the problem, isn't it? Microsoft didn't arrive at the Surface on its own. It needed to have the iPad shoved into its face to get up off its butt and get serious about tablets. If not for the iPad, we might still be stuck with modified desktop UI as the only means for interacting with tablets. Well, for getting work done, that is good enough, because you HAVE to do work, so you do it even if the user experience is just mediocre. But for personal use, unless the user experience is superb, you have better things to do with your time.

But here is where Microsoft CAN have an advantage... if they don't F it up... which they have been known to do.

They OWN enterprise... and all they have to do is create a way to get the personal users you reference. That on paper seems to be much easier to do than for Apple to get into the office.

Many companies are skipping over Windows 8 and waiting for Windows 9, and with advances in the hardware like SP3, they could bridge the gap... as long as the software gets up to speed and they keep up the good work on the hardware.

MozMan68 said:

They OWN enterprise... and all they have to do is create a way to get the personal users you reference. That on paper seems to be much easier to do than for Apple to get into the office.

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See, I think that's where Microsoft gets it wrong. Sure, building things for the enterprise is hard. But I think to make things that consumers love to use is just as hard. But Microsoft approaches it like it's something extra they can just add on.

What's interesting is that Apple just announced a partnership with IBM to make enterprise apps for iOS. Who knows if anything will come of it, but at the least, I think it shows that Apple knows that cracking the enterprise market is hard, and it needs help from a company like IBM, with a strong enterprise background. I have yet to see any signs from Microsoft that they think the consumer market is something they need to tackle head-on. They just seem to think that if they build a strong enough enterprise system, then consumers will naturally use it too.

Night Spring said:

See, I think that's where Microsoft gets it wrong. Sure, building things for the enterprise is hard. But I think to make things that consumers love to use is just as hard. But Microsoft approaches it like it's something extra they can just add on.

What's interesting is that Apple just announced a partnership with IBM to make enterprise apps for iOS. Who knows if anything will come of it, but at the least, I think it shows that Apple knows that cracking the enterprise market is hard, and it needs help from a company like IBM, with a strong enterprise background. I have yet to see any signs from Microsoft that they think the consumer market is something they need to tackle head-on. They just seem to think that if they build a strong enough enterprise system, then consumers will naturally use it too.

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Really? I think the entire switch to metro and touch based Windows was done for that exact reason. Certainly wasn't done to make it easier for their enterprise users to use Windows. That's why Windows 9 is huge and could either be the turning point to tie them together or not.

Anyone got the i7 yet? if yes, did they fix e.g. the pen issue?

Gabe wrote: " Sadly the pen lag I was seeing was still present in all the devices I tried including an i7 model. They told me they are confident they can fix this too but it wasn’t one of the problems they were trying to fix with the machines they brought me to test. I was actually able to play with the new version of Photoshop they showed off at the Pro 3 launch event. This version can be put into a tablet mode that introduces a larger custom interface and touch controls. The touch controls were super intuitive and handy. The only problem was the lag and if they can fix that I’m sold."

I think it would be best holding off on purchasing a Surface right now. The new CEO is trying to get the company focused and are currently redoing and dumping half baked products. Windows 8.1 is one of the ones they are leaving behind as now the full focus is on Windows 9 and getting the platform focused. If they actually get it together and figure out what the want to do, the Surface 4 will be half way decent. Obviously it will have better specs and the software may have matured greatly. Will the Surface 2 and 3 get Windows 9? Who knows? Why take that chance and buy an incomplete product now with Windows 9 around the corner? I see it just like the enterprise. Everyone (for the most part) skipped over Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 waiting for MS to get it together with the Start Menu and all. The Surface should be looked at in the same light. Hell, they dumped the Surface Mini just before production.

For the convo above, using a web browser on a tablet versus having a dedicated app is not a great work around. One example would be a bank app. When the bank apps are done right, you can do everything quickly and easy on your phone versus zooming in/tapping just right in the browser.

Lastly, I think Apple shocked Microsoft. Legacy Apps are being banished to businesses and enterprise. Heck, PCs and computers too. Apps are now the new hotness and Apple knows that everyone wants elegance, ease of use, quality, with a dash of sophistication. The days of defragging and clean installing the OS at home are done. The Post PC era has been ushered in.

MozMan68 said:

Really? I think the entire switch to metro and touch based Windows was done for that exact reason. Certainly wasn't done to make it easier for their enterprise users to use Windows. That's why Windows 9 is huge and could either be the turning point to tie them together or not.

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Well, yes. But I think the consumer is still an afterthought at Microsoft. I think the new CEO recently made a statement that Microsoft is a productivity company, and their focus is on helping people get things done. Reading statements like that doesn't make me feel like I'm a customer Microsoft is looking for. Most of my computer usage is on activities that I consider leisure activities. Sure, I do use them to do work, too, but the time I spend on work activities vs leisure activities is probably something like 20-80. I think Microsoft has got that flipped.

That said, I am looking forward to Windows 9, and seeing what they do with it. I do like Win7 a lot, so if Microsoft pulls it off with Win9, I might just stick with Windows for my desktop system.