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Old Jul 26, 2014, 02:40 PM   #101
EricTheHalfBee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoGuy18 View Post
Besides, nobody is interested in doing mobile payments using Bluetooth 4.0 (LE), since the range or Bluetooth 4.0 makes it highly vulnerable to potential hacking. NFC's extremely short range (only a few centimeters!) is a more viable (and definitely more mature) solution for mobile payments by cellphone.
Baloney. Security is not achieved through the medium of data transfer (WiFi vs NFC vs BT). It's achieved through not sending anything sensitive over the airwaves in the first place.

NFC is far easier to hack BECAUSE of the short range. Crooks can install a reader directly under (or even inside) the POS terminal in the store and capture EVERY single NFC transaction.

With BT or WiFi there's a lot more "noise" going on. How do you tell which packets of data out of the hundreds flying around from various devices are actual transactions (with credit card or other useful information) and which are just garbage (people sending messages, checking mail, browsing, getting info from iBeacons and so on)?

With a sniffer under a terminal you know that EVERY SINGLE NFC data transfer you capture is an actual transaction. That information is going to be far more useful to crooks.

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Originally Posted by Alphabetize View Post
I think that NFC will take off once Apple implements it.
or it will fade away if Apple comes out with an alternate payment system based on BT LE.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 02:43 PM   #102
garya73
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Originally Posted by DShap5 View Post
What exactly is it?
It
is
amazing.

Comcast more than doubled download speeds earlier this year. My download speeds are now 120mbps. With ac wifi, my LG G3 gets the exact same speed as a wired connection to my router. Incredible.

I am about equally excited for both ac and nfc, but I think that Apple supporting nfc will open a lot of doors. Contactless payment will finally gain some legitimacy with a real backer, and not be seen as a fad. And hopefully it will encourage more and more businesses to install nfc hardware. And perhaps even things that are still mainly cash only, like concerts, festivals, and the like will install nfc for food purchases.

ac will only become more useful when wifi hotspots and businesses that currently offer wifi update their hardware to the new standard. Most in-store wifi is still pathetically slow, and the hotspots that Comcast provides around here are really hit and miss in terms of connectability and reliability.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:03 PM   #103
Michael Scrip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

NFC is far easier to hack BECAUSE of the short range. Crooks can install a reader directly under (or even inside) the POS terminal in the store and capture EVERY single NFC transaction.

With a sniffer under a terminal you know that EVERY SINGLE NFC data transfer you capture is an actual transaction. That information is going to be far more useful to crooks.
That's a pretty big security hole then. It sounds like NFC sniffers will be just as bad as card skimmers.

What's the remedy?

.

Last edited by Michael Scrip; Jul 26, 2014 at 03:20 PM.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:04 PM   #104
goobot
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Originally Posted by name99 View Post
NFC has been added because it NOW (unlike three years ago, say) actually has a use case --- and that use case is not "wallets" and "payment schemes".

There is a pairing standard for BlueTooth whereby new BT devices can pair with a phone simply by NFC contact, so basically tapping the BT device against the phone.
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sloa187/sloa187.pdf

The same thing is coming to WiFi (I don't know if it's yet officially part of the spec) to make it easier to connect "Internet of Things" devices without any UI mechanism to WiFi networks.

IMHO it is THIS that has persuaded Apple that it now finally makes sense to add NFC, because you can now do something useful with it.
Bluetooth 4 does this, BTW apple already has it so you can tap an iPhone to an tv 3 and it will set up your tv for you.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:16 PM   #105
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I don't see it. NFC-based payment networks haven't been successful, so why would Apple try to prop them up (and give up a precious 1/10mm or whatever of iPhone thickness to accommodate the antenna)?
I like your sarcasm at the end.

NFC is becoming increasingly popular, it's good for low cost and fast payments. If NFC is used more in phones, both the iPhone and others then I can see it changing as a default way to pay without cash as ultimately the purchase limits will be lifted.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:19 PM   #106
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Shame I wont be able to clone my garage parking pass so I can just open with my phone.

But I guess it's worth it to not have my card info cloned
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:20 PM   #107
DotCom2
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Originally Posted by iSee View Post
I don't see it. NFC-based payment networks haven't been successful, so why would Apple try to prop them up (and give up a precious 1/10mm or whatever of iPhone thickness to accommodate the antenna)?
Because Apple with it's abundance of iphone users in the US will make it successful!
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:21 PM   #108
bluespark
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Originally Posted by kd5jos View Post
NFC is a technology that does NOT include 802.11ac in its standard. So I am kinda curious how 802.11ac works OVER NFC. I think that's what several people on this board are asking.
Two different things. This appears to include both.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:22 PM   #109
isomorphic
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Dragging the conversation away from NFC:

These part leaks all seem to be for the 4.7" phone.

Where are the 5.5" part leaks? Or is the 5.5" device a figment of the Internet's imagination?
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:22 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by newyorksole View Post
Yeah especially with Passbook, Touch ID and the fact that iOS 7 can store credit/debit card info ... Apple has been planting the seeds for some time now .

Can't wait .

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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:34 PM   #111
gavroche
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Makes even less sense now since both technologies are on the board.
no, it does not. he has been trying merely to say which of the two technologies he finds more interesting. breakdown of comprehension.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:35 PM   #112
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Hopefully we'll get 128GBs as well!
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:36 PM   #113
rish
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Credit card

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Originally Posted by bushido View Post
We have "EC Cards" that use & pin and are accepted by most stores but unless its a very big international chain like Zara or H&M they dont accept credit cards. barely anyone i know has a credit card unless its a person who travels a lot.

a credit card for germans means = i dont have the money but i still want something so i buy it anyway even though i dont know exactly when i can pay it off lol.

it always feels amazing when i go back to spain and can pay with credit cards at a bar or even at mc donalds lol *mind blown*
I really did not know this at all. I guess not encouraging the use of credit cards also ensures consumers can afford what they purchase against an "I'll pay later" culture

This makes a lot of sense to me. I think being frugal with money that most work very hard to accumulate is of exceptional importance

I'm sure that many manage their money well. To me, being debt free is a wonderful feeling. I have a credit card but only use it to build a good score.

Last edited by rish; Jul 26, 2014 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Didn't insert right.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:36 PM   #114
MellowFuzz
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Originally Posted by PsykX View Post
Kinda makes me mad if NFC happens on the iPhone, because NFC should have been part of iPhone 5 and 5S already. I thought it was because Apple had something completely different in mind (iBeacons and such).
Addition of NFC => Admission of withholding features from 5/5S by intent or mistake..
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:38 PM   #115
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Leaking a shell component is one thing, but leaking the logic board? You can bet Apple is going to crack down hard and find out who did this.

This is a prime example of why I think Tim has a long-term game plan to move most Apple manufacturing back to the U.S. where product secrecy can be restored. The Mac Pro is a small production run test. We may see the iWatch built in the U.S. also (notice how there's been no hardware leaks). So I believe him at his word when he said he is "doubling down on secrecy" -- it's just that the timetable is longer than we expected.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:40 PM   #116
Cougarcat
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Originally Posted by isomorphic View Post
Dragging the conversation away from NFC:

These part leaks all seem to be for the 4.7" phone.

Where are the 5.5" part leaks? Or is the 5.5" device a figment of the Internet's imagination?
There was a 5.5" part leak the other day. It looks like it's coming later, hence the lack of parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petsounds View Post
Leaking a shell component is one thing, but leaking the logic board? You can bet Apple is going to crack down hard and find out who did this.

This is a prime example of why I think Tim has a long-term game plan to move most Apple manufacturing back to the U.S. where product secrecy can be restored. The Mac Pro is a small production run test. We may see the iWatch built in the U.S. also (notice how there's been no hardware leaks). So I believe him at his word when he said he is "doubling down on secrecy" -- it's just that the timetable is longer than we expected.
There's little he can do about it when iPhones are produced in such large quantities. There is a reason we see iPhone leaks more than Macs. I'm sure he'd love to move manufacturing to the US but I think it will be a long time, if ever, that it'll happen because of the large quantities involved.

As per the iWatch, Apple may do what they did with the iPad and announce it a few months early. I may be wrong, but I don't recall there being any parts leaks for it.

Last edited by Cougarcat; Jul 26, 2014 at 03:49 PM.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:41 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by gmanist1000 View Post
I wonder if it will have MIMO Wi-Fi as well. Or with 802.11ac, do you even need it?
MIMO works without 802.11ac like what the iPad has. I don't have 802.11ac in my home so MIMO would benefit me still. Apple did say "first iOS device to get MIMO".
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:46 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by troop231 View Post
Am I the only one who's more excited for 802.11ac instead of NFC?
No, you most certainly are not.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:49 PM   #119
DotCom2
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Originally Posted by petsounds View Post
Leaking a shell component is one thing, but leaking the logic board? You can bet Apple is going to crack down hard and find out who did this.

This is a prime example of why I think Tim has a long-term game plan to move most Apple manufacturing back to the U.S. where product secrecy can be restored. The Mac Pro is a small production run test. We may see the iWatch built in the U.S. also (notice how there's been no hardware leaks). So I believe him at his word when he said he is "doubling down on secrecy" -- it's just that the timetable is longer than we expected.
Then he shouldn't have said it so soon and leave himself open to such criticism.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:51 PM   #120
Mr. Wonderful
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But in reality, it won't matter.
Yes, it will. This is about much more than how fast your Internet speeds are.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 04:01 PM   #121
Tanegashima
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Originally Posted by niji View Post
no.

iPad Air:
Wi-Fi (802.11a/b/g/n); dual channel (2.4GHz and 5GHz) and MIMO
You're right. It's got MIMO, not ac...
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 04:12 PM   #122
SeaFox
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Dream bigger.

NFC + iBeacon = Finding your seat in a stadium or a theatre. Using your phone to unlock doors and turn on lights when you pull into your driveway.

Many uses for NFC+iBeacon.
Doesn't NFC require you to be with a couple inches of the receiver? That makes the front door unlocking from the driveway rather unlikely. In fact, it seems like you could pull off a similar stunt right now with existing iPhone models using Geofencing.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 04:22 PM   #123
name99
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Originally Posted by goobot View Post
Bluetooth 4 does this, BTW apple already has it so you can tap an iPhone to an tv 3 and it will set up your tv for you.
You do realize that (once a standard is available, which probably wasn't the case when Apple put together the system you describe) here is value in following the standard?
It doesn't help that Apple has a cool (but proprietary) system to solve this problem when I buy 3rd party bluetooth headsets, or health monitors, or Hue lightbulbs, or security cameras, or ...

There is ALREADY a problem. The Jabra Rox stereo headset is sold on the Apple store, but if you look at the list of features there, you will notice one feature that, curiously is not mentioned, though it IS mentioned on the Jabra website. What is that feature:
"NFC Near Field Communications - Perimeter Pairing: Yes
Near Field Communications (NFC) or Perimeter Pairing is an easy pairing functionality that connects two devices that are in close proximity to each other."

This works with my brother's Android phone today, but not with any iOS device.
This is obviously dumb, and I believe Apple knows that it is dumb.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 04:27 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by bigchrisfgb View Post
You can already get NFC vending machines. At the 2012 Olympics the drink vending machines were NFC only.
Some Oyster machines in London are NFC, and I think the new ticket machines for the Metro in Newcastle where I live are NFC as well.
Cool, I didn't know that.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 04:35 PM   #125
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I've never cared about the iPhone not having NFC, but it certainly would be a nice addition.
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