Comparing HPZ820 with the latest Mac Pro

hajime said:

Hello, I have a HP Z820 workstation (Xeon E5-2687W 3.1 GHz, 3.8GHz Max Turbo Frequency, 20MB Cache, 1600 8 cores, 16 threads per CPU, 2CPUs in my machine, 64GB DDR3-1600 RAM, Nvidia Quadro K5000 4GB 1st GFX). How is it compared with the latest Mac PRO?

I mainly use it for computer simulations, SolidWorks, 3ds Max, etc.

Thanks.

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I believe, for CPU- and memory-intensive tasks that scale easily to multiple cores and CPUs, a "generic" workstation like the one from HP is still best. Most notably, it allows double the number of cores and four times the amount of memory in the same "box".

No OSX, though.
;-)
But at least, you can install Linux.

MRrainer said:

No OSX, though.

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You can run OS X on a Z820. Not sure Firewire or the embedded LSI 2308 RAID controller work, but the OS can be setup and function with both CPUs and 128GB RAM and graphics cards of your choice.

MRrainer said:

I believe, for CPU- and memory-intensive tasks that scale easily to multiple cores and CPUs, a "generic" workstation like the one from HP is still best. Most notably, it allows double the number of cores and four times the amount of memory in the same "box".

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I'm happy that you put quotes around "generic" - since the Z820 is HP's flagship workstation and is world's apart from "generic".

Or, do you define "generic" as "doesn't have the logo of a half eaten fruit on it"?

AidenShaw said:

I'm happy that you put quotes around "generic" - since the Z820 is HP's flagship workstation and is world's apart from "generic".

Or, do you define "generic" as "doesn't have the logo of a half eaten fruit on it"?

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I say "generic", because comparing the nMP to any of these workstations (Dell Precision, Lenovo Thinkstation) is a bit like an apples to oranges comparison.
And yes, the lack of the Apple-logo on the chassis adds to that.
;-)

The z820 is certainly not a "generic" PC - even though, most people probably use it as one, running Windows 8.1 on it... ;-)
To me, it looks more like a server - and probably shares a lot of components from HP's DL-series.
Apple's nMP was probably never designed to compete with these workstations. At least not in the high-end.

MRrainer said:

To me, it looks more like a server - and probably shares a lot of components from HP's DL-series.

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Outside of individual components like the CPUs, memory DIMMs, PCH and low-end DL disks there's very little in common between a ProLiant DL 3-series and the Z820. The CPUs, memory DIMMs and PCH are also shared with the MP6,1.

hajime said:

So, is the HPZ820 I have faster or much faster than the current generation of Mac Pro?

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It's faster in multi-core CPU performance. Using a previous architecture and slightly slower memory, but more cores and faster clockspeed give your system the edge. In single threaded processing tasks the newer Mac pros will be generally a little bit faster as they have a 3.9GHz turbo boost and the newer Ivy bridge architecture.

Your graphics card out paces them for what it was designed for and in 3DS Max it is vastly superior and Solidworks it has quite superior view port performance, but for GPU computing the D700s are better.

They also have PCI-E SSD I/O speeds, dunno what you have, but you can get that so that isn't a huge deal.

You certainly wouldn't want a Mac Pro instead of what you have for what you say you do.

"Better" is relative

hajime said:

Thanks. As you know, most applications still do not benefit from lots of cores. For those that can take advantages of less than 4 cores, is the HP one still better?

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The HP has massive internal expansion (memory, disks, PCIe cards) - if these are important to you, then it's "better".

The Z820 is a large chassis. HP also has the Z620, which is a smaller dual-socket machine with a bit less expansion. You could also drop to the Z420 - a single-socket machine like the MP6,1, but one with still much more internal expansion than the MP6,1.

I looked at the HPZ820 before going with the nMP. One of the deciding factors for me was my previous experience with HPs. They sell a lot of junk.

I've had high-end laptops with overheat, battery and screen issues. The desktops themselves have proven to be more reliable but always had the most unfriendly upgrade potential(cheap power supply and poor space management). The only 2 desktops to die on me have both been HP.

So when it came to spending big money again with HP, I just couldn't do it. Besides, I wouldn't spend any significant money on a machine w/o thunderbolt technology.

MacProCard said:

I looked at the HPZ820 before going with the nMP. One of the deciding factors for me was my previous experience with HPs. They sell a lot of junk.

I've had high-end laptops with overheat, battery and screen issues. The desktops themselves have proven to be more reliable but always had the most unfriendly upgrade potential(cheap power supply and poor space management). The only 2 desktops to die on me have both been HP.

So when it came to spending big money again with HP, I just couldn't do it. Besides, I wouldn't spend any significant money on a machine w/o thunderbolt technology.

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I can confirm similar issues with HP, especially a few years ago. In my experience, they've improved quite a bit as far as quality control goes, but many of their older machines (circa 2007-2011) tend to be less reliable than one would like, in my experience. I've had terrible experiences with their customer service trying to order parts (typically cheap plastic casings breaking, or screen plastics getting too hot and becoming brittle.) However, I'm impressed with their newer machines. A few friends of mine have picked up their ENVY series laptop, which feels like it's a great quality product, and they have not yet had any issues. Whether the quality control has made its way into their workstations is something I haven't had a chance to test firsthand, but HP as a brand seems to be stepping it up.

MacProCard said:

So when it came to spending big money again with HP, I just couldn't do it. Besides, I wouldn't spend any significant money on a machine w/o thunderbolt technology.

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The Z820 and Z620 support Thunderbolt.

Umbongo said:

The Z820 and Z620 support Thunderbolt.

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Besides, What does Thunderbolt really offer him aside from faster external disk access (which wouldn't really be the bottleneck anyway when 3d rendering is concerned)? There are open pcie slots for anything else.

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hajime said:

My HPZ820 is very very quiet. How about the Mac Pro?

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The Mac Pro likely wins there. I have an older z820 and it's not all that quiet to me (comparatively at least).

A comparison photo says more than a thousand words



Ewwww

Umbongo said:

The Z820 and Z620 support Thunderbolt.

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I know they do. But I've had rotten luck with usb3.0 ports and usb3.0 cards. They never work after a few uses.

So far Thunderbolt has worked flawlessly for me.

The most interesting thing for me was pulling apart the workstation. It's compartmentalized like a G5, so you've got to pull apart plastic sheath after plastic sheath to get to stuff.

The current station we've got hasn't done so well--it would randomly shut down during renders, which I think was a PSU issue, but after that either the graphics card fried by itself or the power issues caused it to die.

Ordering another one so hopefully it's more solid, especially since it's going to have a Titan Z in it.

I find it interesting that so many have had issues with HP machines. I have had several and have been pleased with them. The only problems I've encountered involved cooling issues, which I haven't seen in a few years. (Although I have one laptop that would get so hot the case warped, although the mahine itself still runs just fine.)

Their professional level laptops have been favorites of mine. Their products aren't Apple level quality, but they've been fine for me. But, I am a small sample size, while some folks here have had to deal with many, many- hundreds or even thousands.

Still, I'll stick to my MBPs these days.

Beachguy said:

I find it interesting that so many have had issues with HP machines. I have had several and have been pleased with them. The only problems I've encountered involved cooling issues, which I haven't seen in a few years. (Although I have one laptop that would get so hot the case warped, although the mahine itself still runs just fine.)

Their professional level laptops have been favorites of mine. Their products aren't Apple level quality, but they've been fine for me. But, I am a small sample size, while some folks here have had to deal with many, many- hundreds or even thousands.

Still, I'll stick to my MBPs these days.

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They ship so many units most people in tech are likely to have come in contact with a dodgy consumer machine.

They've sold well over 500 million x86 based systems since 2000, close to 600 million by the end of this year. That means tens of millions of units were bound to fail based on the average failure rates. People's experience with the consumer side is very different to how it is with the enterprise level support and build quality of machines. Usually they have to go back to a store and responsibility can be pushed around and around.

I've got a hex nMP d700 to setup with 8.1 for 3dsmax in a few weeks. They have been a very popular choice for very quiet workstations in windows, think that will be the 8th for bootcamp so far. They are quieter running full blast than a hp elite 8300 sff never mind a z series. I like the z's but quiet they most certainly are not, noisier than my 3,1!

This one is going to be simulating demolitions apparently...

If you already have that desktop, why even compare it to a Mac Pro? You obviously have the space and it's quite powerful. It's not like if the Mac Pro was any little bit better you'd switch?

The Z820 has more expansion and everything is upgradable. It's not really a comparison.

That said my work space does not have space for a computer that enormous, so I enjoy using my small Mac Pro.

Plus it's very quiet when I'm running a full workload.

Beachguy said:

I find it interesting that so many have had issues with HP machines. I have had several and have been pleased with them. The only problems I've encountered involved cooling issues, which I haven't seen in a few years. (Although I have one laptop that would get so hot the case warped, although the mahine itself still runs just fine.)

Their professional level laptops have been favorites of mine. Their products aren't Apple level quality, but they've been fine for me. But, I am a small sample size, while some folks here have had to deal with many, many- hundreds or even thousands.

Still, I'll stick to my MBPs these days.

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My sample size is small in the grand scheme of things. But Toshiba all the way for PC laptops. I love my late 2013 rMBP fo rwhat it's worth. Got burned bad on 2 recent Samsung ATIV 8 laptop PCs. -complete junk.