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63dot

macrumors 603
Jun 12, 2006
5,269
339
norcal
There was one failed test that he denied.

There's a part of me being happy that my Giants received their two championships after the Barry Bonds era than instead of during when he was the poster boy for steroids.

The championship or championships won during a Bonds era team would not seem genuine to me but some fans I know don't care how you win a game or championship. But doping or cheating really takes away from the integrity of a championship season in my book. There's a reason we ditched Cabrera in our postseason and we wanted to stand as a team without doping yet still winning it all. It was a hard road to that championship and certainly very rocky and I know we would have likely cruised to easier wins with Cabrera being the NL's top hitter, but manager Boche made the right call even though many Giants fans thought that doomed our team's postseason. Without Cabrera in postseason, we faced six different elimination games and had a huge hole where he would have been. Had we lost any one of those six games and got sent home packing, there would be an outrage for not using him. We got lucky. Some feel that if a doped player serves his suspension and is clean, he should be able to play and contribute, but we had gone through Bonds doing unusually well and arguably going into 2002 WS with a questionable wild card status.
 
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AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,680
10,516
Austin, TX
There's a part of me being happy that my Giants received their two championships after the Barry Bonds era than instead of during when he was the poster boy for steroids.

The championship or championships won during a Bonds era team would not seem genuine to me but some fans I know don't care how you win a game or championship. But doping or cheating really takes away from the integrity of a championship season in my book. There's a reason we ditched Cabrera in our postseason and we wanted to stand as a team without doping yet still winning it all. It was a hard road to that championship and certainly very rocky and I know we would have likely cruised to easier wins with Cabrera being the NL's top hitter, but manager Boche made the right call even though many Giants fans thought that doomed our team's postseason. Without Cabrera in postseason, we faced six different elimination games and had a huge hole where he would have been. Had we lost any one of those six games and got sent home packing, there would be an outrage for not using him. We got lucky. Some feel that if a doped player serves his suspension and is clean, he should be able to play and contribute, but we had gone through Bonds doing unusually well and arguably going into 2002 WS with a questionable wild card status.

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I wish we could do something like that, but we just can't. It is interesting how many key players on some teams juiced.

Note; 2005 White Sox - Utility outfielder Pablo Ozuna was suspected, so it's technically not "none"
 

Moyank24

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2009
4,334
2,454
in a New York State of mind
Image

I wish we could do something like that, but we just can't. It is interesting how many key players on some teams juiced.

Note; 2005 White Sox - Utility outfielder Pablo Ozuna was suspected, so it's technically not "none"

This chart is a bit misleading - for many reasons. One is that some players are listed every year they were on the team even though the steroid use may have been at a different time.

For instance, Andy Pettitte didn't take the HGH until the 2000's so listing him as a suspected juicer on the 96, 98, 99, 00 teams is extremely misleading. I'm sure the same can be said for many of the others (on all of the teams) as well.

Also, it would be interesting to note how many "suspected users" there were on the teams that lost in those World Series. The playing field was more even then you probably think.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,680
10,516
Austin, TX
This chart is a bit misleading - for many reasons. One is that some players are listed every year they were on the team even though the steroid use may have been at a different time.

For instance, Andy Pettitte didn't take the HGH until the 2000's so listing him as a suspected juicer on the 96, 98, 99, 00 teams is extremely misleading. I'm sure the same can be said for many of the others (on all of the teams) as well.

Also, it would be interesting to note how many "suspected users" there were on the teams that lost in those World Series. The playing field was more even then you probably think.

I agree with you. The graphic is a very crude method of illustrating how dirty the game is/was. There's really no actual way to parse between cheaters and non-cheaters.
 

MacDawg

Moderator emeritus
Mar 20, 2004
19,823
4,503
"Between the Hedges"
Congrats to Bobby Cox, Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux on their induction to the Hall of Fame, as well as former Braves Tony LaRussa, Joe Torre and Ga. native Frank Thomas

Nice win for Santana and the Braves today 2-0

Release the Kimbrel and Welcome to the Jungle

IMG_3922.JPG
 

Moyank24

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2009
4,334
2,454
in a New York State of mind
Billy Beane just gets it.

This, along with the other moves, may finally help them get over that hump and win a series in the post season.

It will also give them a solid couple of months to woo Lester. That team is very hairy, so I'm sure he'll feel right at home. :D

And for Cespedes, he's going to be a free agent after the 2015 season, so the Sox get a good power guy (in a much better hitter's park) for at least another season.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,447
43,365
I'm sorry to see Lester go, This weakens an already weak pitching staff, though I understand why - fire sale.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,995
9,973
CT
I'm sorry to see Lester go, This weakens an already weak pitching staff, though I understand why - fire sale.
The Red Sox really screwed this one up. Had they not insulted Lester in the spring and actually paid him he would still be there.
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
9,032
8,404
New Hampshire, USA
The Red Sox really screwed this one up. Had they not insulted Lester in the spring and actually paid him he would still be there.

The Red Sox need to clean house and rebuild. One pitcher doesn't make a team and it looks like a few years until the Red Sox will be competitive again. Baseball is a business and I can't fault the Red Sox on Lester.

Besides, how about the Yankees over paying their players :D.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,995
9,973
CT
The Red Sox need to clean house and rebuild. One pitcher doesn't make a team and it looks like a few years until the Red Sox will be competitive again. Baseball is a business and I can't fault the Red Sox on Lester.

Besides, how about the Yankees over paying their players :D.
So was last year a fluke? They team has a worse record this year then they did under Valentine.
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
9,032
8,404
New Hampshire, USA
So was last year a fluke? They team has a worse record this year then they did under Valentine.

Nope. Doing well one year isn't an indication that a team will do well the next year especially with some different personnel on the team. The team chemistry last year was great and they were overachievers. This year, the team chemistry appears to be very poor and they are greatly underachieving. They need to clean house as much as possible and rebuild.

And Lackey is gone to the Cardinals.

For those that follow the Red Sox, it shouldn't have been a surprise. People in the know had said that Lackey would be traded before the deadline.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,995
9,973
CT
Nope. Doing well one year isn't an indication that a team will do well the next year especially with some different personnel on the team. The team chemistry last year was great and they were overachievers. This year, the team chemistry appears to be very poor and they are greatly underachieving. They need to clean house as much as possible and rebuild.



For those that follow the Red Sox, it shouldn't have been a surprise. People in the know had said that Lackey would be traded before the deadline.
Last years team was the same team they had 2 years ago. So what changed? All of the blame was put on the manager.
 
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