Anybody else switching to iOS until they stop ruining Android

TheHateMachine · Jul 30, 2014

dumastudetto said:
That's ludicrous. Daniel is one of the most respected tech writers in the business today. To call him biased and a shill is revolting.

Master Ruseman right here. If you are serious though, I am not sure how you could say the above about this Daniel fellow and keep a straight face. Unless his articles mirror your thoughts 100%. If that is the case, then you have taken brand loyalty to a whole new level.

That whole website is poison, I have read snippets of the article posted in this thread and one other article on Apple Insider. The levels they take that site to are the extreme. If anyone ever wanted a pure example of the cultish Apple feel then they need to look no longer. Browse to Apple Insider, because no where else on the internet2 can you find a bunch of people trying to validate their purchase by writing bad words about Apple's "enemies".

2Maybe in dumastudetto's head

jrswizzle · Jul 30, 2014

Lloydbm41 said:
Some people simply refuse to call apps what Apple forces upon you (and you can't delete or even put inside of a folder to hide it) bloatware. They believe that since it doesn't come from a carrier that it is okay. I would counter that the pre-installed apps from Apple are actually worse, since iOS prevents you from deleting or even disabling those apps. No matter what, those apps like Newstand will always and forever take up not only storage space, but also precious screen real-estate in the form of an ugly icon.
I hate this about iOS. For f#$ks sake Apple, at least let me hide or disable these apps. I don't need a mandatory calculator app!

I have a bit of a hard time calling a simple storefront for the numerous magazines and digital newspapers available on iOS "bloatware" - even if you don't use it.

Bloat to me is redundant apps that are added after the fact. For example, on a Samsung device one must contend with not only the carrier's multiple apps that duplicate features, but also Samsung's on top of Android's.

Perhaps people don't feel like there's bloatware on Apple devices because we're only dealing with apps from ONE company and all those "useless" apps are at least not redundant. I happen to use reminders, notes, passbook and the calculator all the time. I even have a magazine and newspaper in newstand.

I do think it would be nice if Apple let you hide them....but when you can simply hide the app in a folder, its not a big deal. The way my folders are organized, I don't even realize those apps are there.

Oh, and the space taken up is insignificant. As a whole, my 32 GB iPhone 5S has 27.4 GB available for my use. The OS (and all those pesky apps) equate to a grand total of 4.6 GB. Compare that to other devices in the industry - that's NOTHING.

EDIT: Oh, I will compare! (16 GB Nexus 5 running stock Android leaves me with 12.55 GB of total space - pretty awesome...then again, I have to install almost everything after the fact but....haha).

beosound3200 · Jul 30, 2014

TheHateMachine said:
Master Ruseman right here. If you are serious though, I am not sure how you could say the above about this Daniel fellow and keep a straight face. Unless his articles mirror your thoughts 100%. If that is the case, then you have taken brand loyalty to a whole new level.

That whole website is poison, I have read snippets of the article posted in this thread and one other article on Apple Insider. The levels they take that site to are the extreme. If anyone ever wanted a pure example of the cultish Apple feel then they need to look no longer. Browse to Apple Insider, because no where else on the internet2 can you find a bunch of people trying to validate their purchase by writing bad words about Apple's "enemies".

2Maybe in dumastudetto's head

Could you then point us to another writer that writes such in-depth articles about the mobile industry?

Lloydbm41 · Jul 30, 2014

TheHateMachine said:
Master Ruseman right here. If you are serious though, I am not sure how you could say the above about this Daniel fellow and keep a straight face. Unless his articles mirror your thoughts 100%. If that is the case, then you have taken brand loyalty to a whole new level.

That whole website is poison, I have read snippets of the article posted in this thread and one other article on Apple Insider. The levels they take that site to are the extreme. If anyone ever wanted a pure example of the cultish Apple feel then they need to look no longer. Browse to Apple Insider, because no where else on the internet2 can you find a bunch of people trying to validate their purchase by writing bad words about Apple's "enemies".

2Maybe in dumastudetto's head

It is pointless to debate with anyone that so blindly believes in something, that rational thought has been taken out of the equation. It is futile, ergo I just ignore them. Suggest you do the same.

Oletros · Jul 30, 2014

beosound3200 said:
Could you then point us to another writer that writes such in-depth articles about the mobile industry?

Because it is clear that, like dumastudetto, you're just playing a role

daveathall · Jul 30, 2014

jrswizzle said:
I have a bit of a hard time calling a simple storefront for the numerous magazines and digital newspapers available on iOS "bloatware" - even if you don't use it.

Bloat to me is redundant apps that are added after the fact. For example, on a Samsung device one must contend with not only the carrier's multiple apps that duplicate features, but also Samsung's on top of Android's.

Perhaps people don't feel like there's bloatware on Apple devices because we're only dealing with apps from ONE company and all those "useless" apps are at least not redundant. I happen to use reminders, notes, passbook and the calculator all the time. I even have a magazine and newspaper in newstand.

I do think it would be nice if Apple let you hide them....but when you can simply hide the app in a folder, its not a big deal. The way my folders are organized, I don't even realize those apps are there.

Oh, and the space taken up is insignificant. As a whole, my 32 GB iPhone 5S has 27.4 GB available for my use. The OS (and all those pesky apps) equate to a grand total of 4.6 GB. Compare that to other devices in the industry - that's NOTHING.

EDIT: Oh, I will compare! (16 GB Nexus 5 running stock Android leaves me with 12.55 GB of total space - pretty awesome...then again, I have to install almost everything after the fact but....haha).

Both Android and iOS have bloatware, the difference is that on iOS it is always on one of your screens, you have no choice in the matter. Period, it's not even open for debate, its fact. With Android it can be hidden unseen and unused in the app draw or deleted or disabled. On my Galaxy S5 I have one home screen, very minimalist, only apps that I use are on it, if it was an iPhone I would have to have an extra screen to "hide" unused bloatware.

I have asked this question numerous times and never got an answer, if one can disable, delete or hide bloatware and it doesn't affect the phones operation, what is the problem? What adverse effects are the consequence of bloatware? My phone works great.

The word bloatware is only used on boards like this, the general public don't give a toss. In fact, the only person at work to ever ask me anything about apps was a iPhone user asking how he could get rid of an app from his screen, the answer was "you can't" I didn't add, "unless of course you have an Android phone".

dumastudetto · Jul 31, 2014

TheHateMachine said:
Master Ruseman right here. If you are serious though, I am not sure how you could say the above about this Daniel fellow and keep a straight face. Unless his articles mirror your thoughts 100%. If that is the case, then you have taken brand loyalty to a whole new level.

I definitely don't get a sense of bias in his articles. Most of his opinion pieces are written in awesome depth with facts and evidence to back his views up. Now I definitely don't agree with everything Daniel writes, or all the conclusions he draws. But I absolutely disagree with the notion that he's biased or shilling for Apple. I have no problem with people disagreeing with him, and I can understand why people in this section particularly would feel disagreeable to the content he produces on his website. But there's no need to launch into personal attacks.

TheHateMachine said:
That whole website is poison, I have read snippets of the article posted in this thread and one other article on Apple Insider. The levels they take that site to are the extreme. If anyone ever wanted a pure example of the cultish Apple feel then they need to look no longer. Browse to Apple Insider, because no where else on the internet2 can you find a bunch of people trying to validate their purchase by writing bad words about Apple's "enemies".

2Maybe in dumastudetto's head

My honest advice would be to ignore that website if it bothers you so much. I have no doubt I could find Android websites and communities that would piss me off no end with articles that I might perceive as anti-Apple. But why go there if I know it's going to annoy or anger me? Life is too short to waste time worrying about the different choices other people make in terms of smartphones, tablets and web services. I'm sure they are happy with their choices, I'm very happy with mine, and the world goes on.

The truth is there are fanatical Apple fans, Microsoft fans, Google fans, Sony fans (yes they do still exist!) etc. There is nothing to gain debating the fanatics because they have an unshakeable opinion and brand loyalty.

The-Real-Deal82 · Jul 31, 2014

Lloydbm41 said:
Cool, that you believe that, but got news for you. DED is loved by AppleInsider and Apple enthusiast websites, but outside of those circles his articles are viewed for what they are; Propogandized editorials with manipulated content to pander to the iFaithful.

Say's you an impartial, non biased poster on Mac Rumors! lol.

beosound3200 · Jul 31, 2014

Oletros said:
Because it is clear that, like dumastudetto, you're just playing a role

You never answered my statement about backup, do you prefer android integrated, out of the box backup solution? Its more customisable right?

Wolfpup · Jul 31, 2014

the caveman said:
Yes but Nexus 5 is a pure garbage though. Yes i have one.

How so? I was considering getting one, sooooo...

TheHateMachine · Jul 31, 2014

dumastudetto said:
I definitely don't get a sense of bias in his articles. Most of his opinion pieces are written in awesome depth with facts and evidence to back his views up. Now I definitely don't agree with everything Daniel writes, or all the conclusions he draws. But I absolutely disagree with the notion that he's biased or shilling for Apple. I have no problem with people disagreeing with him, and I can understand why people in this section particularly would feel disagreeable to the content he produces on his website. But there's no need to launch into personal attacks.

I am not sure how you can say that he writes with awesome depth and facts/evidence. I mean look at some of the snippets quoted above where he just throws in negativity towards non Apple companies and pulls some story out of his ass about how Google bullies OEMs and how there is a huge divide developing between Google and Samsung. After saying such things he doesn't really provide anything to back any of his words up. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the fact of this guy's shill factor.

My honest advice would be to ignore that website if it bothers you so much. I have no doubt I could find Android websites and communities that would piss me off no end with articles that I might perceive as anti-Apple. But why go there if I know it's going to annoy or anger me? Life is too short to waste time worrying about the different choices other people make in terms of smartphones, tablets and web services. I'm sure they are happy with their choices, I'm very happy with mine, and the world goes on.

The truth is there are fanatical Apple fans, Microsoft fans, Google fans, Sony fans (yes they do still exist!) etc. There is nothing to gain debating the fanatics because they have an unshakeable opinion and brand loyalty.

Oh I have already discounted their website and have essentially ignored it. For years I have read about how fanatical Appleinsider and the users are. (On this site even!) I have never visited the site and got my first taste after someone linked two articles within this week. That doesn't mean I won't offer up my opinion the second someone tries to use it as a source to back their claims.

beosound3200 said:
Could you then point us to another writer that writes such in-depth articles about the mobile industry?

Google could help you with that.

beosound3200 · Jul 31, 2014

TheHateMachine said:
Google could help you with that.

Not really, i tried, did you?

Regarding samsung and google, ive got two words for you - vertical integration

Heres another word - tizen

And yeah, it shows you never read daniel, you have no idea whatsoever how he writes or how he backs up his claims. You should start, maybe youll learn a thing or two

gotluck · Jul 31, 2014

^ What are you even talking about? This is madness. Stop getting trolled guys

nj1266 · Aug 1, 2014

iOSaddict said:
Definitely will come back to iOS with the iphone 6. Selling my iphone 5 and switching to g2 is the biggest mistake I made this year in terms of gadgets.

Care to tell us why?

daveathall · Aug 1, 2014

daveathall said:
Both Android and iOS have bloatware, the difference is that on iOS it is always on one of your screens, you have no choice in the matter. Period, it's not even open for debate, its fact. With Android it can be hidden unseen and unused in the app draw or deleted or disabled. On my Galaxy S5 I have one home screen, very minimalist, only apps that I use are on it, if it was an iPhone I would have to have an extra screen to "hide" unused bloatware.

I have asked this question numerous times and never got an answer, if one can disable, delete or hide bloatware and it doesn't affect the phones operation, what is the problem? What adverse effects are the consequence of bloatware? My phone works great.

The word bloatware is only used on boards like this, the general public don't give a toss. In fact, the only person at work to ever ask me anything about apps was a iPhone user asking how he could get rid of an app from his screen, the answer was "you can't" I didn't add, "unless of course you have an Android phone".

Can anyone answer my question about bloatware please?

TheHateMachine · Aug 1, 2014

beosound3200 said:
Not really, i tried, did you?

Regarding samsung and google, ive got two words for you - vertical integration

Heres another word - tizen

And yeah, it shows you never read daniel, you have no idea whatsoever how he writes or how he backs up his claims. You should start, maybe youll learn a thing or two

Yea I have read two of his articles, both garbage. Doubt I would learn anything other than how to be a better Apple shill.

Wolfpup · Aug 1, 2014

daveathall said:
Can anyone answer my question about bloatware please?

Regarding that "bloatware" thing, to me the important issue is whether or not it can be removed, and whether it's harming anything/running in the background.

Unfortunately Android can have a ton of weird junk running in the background that you can't even see. Monitoring software from the carrier or OEM, unremovable skins, etc.

Windows Phone tries to do a sort of middle ground where carriers and OEMs can include junk, BUT the end user has to be able to uninstall it. (Although the reality is in Nokia's case even before Microsoft bought them their software was really good, and virtually "first party" anyway...they were no Samsung!) I'm okay with that, although the reality is like on my Nokia 928 there are some Verizon settings in the control panel that (I guess) can't be removed. (Come to think of it though, a 520 from AT&T doesn't have that...) Although they're only there in the control panel and I GUESS not hurting anything.

Regarding iOS programs you don't want... there are a bunch I never use. Most notoriously that stock market one. To me that's just a total non-issue though. Absolute worst case it means you've got an extra screen at the end of your home screens where you stick stuff you never use (and then most of that can even go in folders...I have an "unused" folder). To me that's no big deal at all, as they're not running all the time, not doing anything other than technically using up some space in storage, but...oh well, these modern OSes are huge and that's just the way it is.

daveathall · Aug 1, 2014

Wolfpup said:
Regarding that "bloatware" thing, to me the important issue is whether or not it can be removed, and whether it's harming anything/running in the background.

Unfortunately Android can have a ton of weird junk running in the background that you can't even see. Monitoring software from the carrier or OEM, unremovable skins, etc.

Windows Phone tries to do a sort of middle ground where carriers and OEMs can include junk, BUT the end user has to be able to uninstall it. I'm okay with that, although the reality is like on my Nokia 928 there are some Verizon settings in the control panel that (I guess) can't be removed. Although they're only there in the control panel and I GUESS not hurting anything.

Regarding iOS programs you don't want... there are a bunch I never use. Most notoriously that stock market one. To me that's just a total non-issue though. Absolute worst case it means you've got an extra screen at the end of your home screens where you stick stuff you never use (and then most of that can even go in folders...I have an "unused" folder). To me that's no big deal at all, as they're not running all the time, not doing anything other than technically using up some space in storage, but...oh well, these modern OSes are huge and that's just the way it is.

OK, thanks for the answer, but I have a SGS5, the apps that run in the background don't effect my device and because they are running in the background I don't know, or notice them. Doesn't iOS have monitoring software and unremovable skins?

I'm still not getting the "bloatware" disadvantages.

Wolfpup · Aug 1, 2014

daveathall said:
OK, thanks for the answer, but I have a SGS5, the apps that run in the background don't effect my device and because they are running in the background I don't know, or notice them. Doesn't iOS have monitoring software and unremovable skins?

I'm still not getting the "bloatware" disadvantages.

It does affect you though. It's using CPU time and RAM. It could be affecting security or compatibility in weird ways if not coded perfectly.

Regarding unremovable skins, I'm making a distinction between the actual OS and something a carrier or OEM has replaced on the OS. Obviously every OS has an interface, and normally you wouldn't want to get rid of it even if it's technically replaceable. It's quite another thing to be stuck running an OEM's gooped up software on top of the OS. In the case of Android it's one of the reasons you don't see reasonable OS support on most Android devices, save for Nexus ones.

Google needs to get it together and make sure that ALL Android devices (or devices that can access Google Play, or however they do it) can be switched back to the Android shell and get updates straight from Google. *sigh*

tbayrgs · Aug 1, 2014

daveathall said:
Can anyone answer my question about bloatware please?

If your assumption is fully accurate, then you're right, there really aren't consequences of 'bloatware'. But Can you truly fully remove the effects of bloat ware though, I think is the better question. I don't think you can fully remove its impact on device performance.

Being able to delete it is obviously the best solution but you can't delete everything--actually in my experience you can't delete very much.

Disabling helps but it still takes up device memory and I also question how effective it is. For example, I went through and disabled as much of the Sony software as possible on my Xperia Z1 Compact but still get update notifications that I either have to accept or repeatedly ignore.

Just hiding it is clearly the least effective and even though 'out of sight, out of mind', it still has an impact on device performance.

And there are certain things you just don't have an option. Many elements of TouchWiz are simply functions installed into the OS and while you can turn them off, they are still part of the OS and have an impact, even if it's limited to using up valuable storage space. For example, couldn't turn off the Magazine portion of my Note 10.1 (2014) and it was the epitome of 'lagfest.' The fact the GPE versions near universally appear to run smoother with great efficiency as do unlocked/Developer editions vs. their carrier branded OEM skinned counterparts, is proof enough, at least IMO.

I'll give you just one example with my AT&T branded Note 2 that drove me nuts. I keep my wifi on all the time--don't want to have to manually manage my wifi usage. AT&T managed to configure their version to automatically connect to any AT&T hotspots when in their vicinity and there was no way to turn off this functionality. The greater problem was that AT&T wifi were terrible--usually far worse than their own HSPA speeds, any they were everywhere in the US (Starbucks, McDonalds, their own stores, and other locations). So everytime I was close, my Note 2 would connect and effectively kill my network performance. Only way to deal with this was to keep my wifi turned off when out or flash a custom ROM.

So long story short, in theory your assumption would be pretty accurate--I just don't think it's possible.

jamezr · Aug 1, 2014

tbayrgs said:
If your assumption is fully accurate, then you're right, there really aren't consequences of 'bloatware'. But Can you truly fully remove the effects of bloat ware though, I think is the better question. I don't think you can fully remove its impact on device performance.

Being able to delete it is obviously the best solution but you can't delete everything--actually in my experience you can't delete very much.

Disabling helps but it still takes up device memory and I also question how effective it is. For example, I went through and disabled as much of the Sony software as possible on my Xperia Z1 Compact but still get update notifications that I either have to accept or repeatedly ignore.

Just hiding it is clearly the least effective and even though 'out of sight, out of mind', it still has an impact on device performance.

And there are certain things you just don't have an option. Many elements of TouchWiz are simply functions installed into the OS and while you can turn them off, they are still part of the OS and have an impact, even if it's limited to using up valuable storage space. For example, couldn't turn off the Magazine portion of my Note 10.1 (2014) and it was the epitome of 'lagfest.' The fact the GPE versions near universally appear to run smoother with great efficiency as do unlocked/Developer editions vs. their carrier branded OEM skinned counterparts, is proof enough, at least IMO.

I'll give you just one example with my AT&T branded Note 2 that drove me nuts. I keep my wifi on all the time--don't want to have to manually manage my wifi usage. AT&T managed to configure their version to automatically connect to any AT&T hotspots when in their vicinity and there was no way to turn off this functionality. The greater problem was that AT&T wifi were terrible--usually far worse than their own HSPA speeds, any they were everywhere in the US (Starbucks, McDonalds, their own stores, and other locations). So everytime I was close, my Note 2 would connect and effectively kill my network performance. Only way to deal with this was to keep my wifi turned off when out or flash a custom ROM.

So long story short, in theory your assumption would be pretty accurate--I just don't think it's possible.

Here is an example. .....this is disabled and not using system resources other than taking up 9MB of space. It will not try to update and I will not be prompted again to do anything for this app.

TacticalDesire · Aug 1, 2014

Sometimes I have a hard time believing that there are actually adults on this forum.

jrswizzle · Aug 1, 2014

daveathall said:
Both Android and iOS have bloatware, the difference is that on iOS it is always on one of your screens, you have no choice in the matter. Period, it's not even open for debate, its fact. With Android it can be hidden unseen and unused in the app draw or deleted or disabled. On my Galaxy S5 I have one home screen, very minimalist, only apps that I use are on it, if it was an iPhone I would have to have an extra screen to "hide" unused bloatware.

I have asked this question numerous times and never got an answer, if one can disable, delete or hide bloatware and it doesn't affect the phones operation, what is the problem? What adverse effects are the consequence of bloatware? My phone works great.

The word bloatware is only used on boards like this, the general public don't give a toss. In fact, the only person at work to ever ask me anything about apps was a iPhone user asking how he could get rid of an app from his screen, the answer was "you can't" I didn't add, "unless of course you have an Android phone".

I never said or implied that it would be a problem. Simply that it really isn't a huge deal.

So you use one home screen on your Android. Having a second you never swipe to on an iPhone is a huge deal? I just never really understood what all the fuss was about.

I have two home screens on my iPhone. One for my most used apps and one with all my folders. I only have a few of the apple apps I don't use regularly and they fit into one of the folder categories I have. I don't even notice they're there.

Again, if Apple wants to say "you can hide app x", great. But it's really not that big a deal. On the other hand, Samsung (the big bloatware culprit) adds in a crapton of nonsense. The icons aren't the issue. The issue is that when I get my GS whatever, it only has half the advertised 16GB available for me to use.

If that Apple "bloat" took up a ton of space and limited my available storage, I'd be upset. Truth is, they don't. So it really isn't an issue.

EDIT: Here are my two iPhone 5S home screens. The Apple apps I don't ever use are Compass, Stocks, Voice Memos and Weather. You wouldn't even know they exist by looking at my home screens.

daveathall · Aug 1, 2014

Thanks for the replies fellas, I'm probably not technical enough to notice if my device is, or is not affected by bloatware and if I can't disable or delete an app I will never notice the difference anyway, a bit like; "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound"? The answers here have been well thought out and given me something to think about and it hasn't broke out into an argument, thanks fellas.

My point being I guess is, does the worry about bloatware get blown a bit out of proportion?

beosound3200 · Aug 1, 2014

TheHateMachine said:
Yea I have read two of his articles, both garbage. Doubt I would learn anything other than how to be a better Apple shill.

You wont learn anything with this attitude, especially about the current state of the mobile industry

Anybody else switching to iOS until they stop ruining Android

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