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Old Aug 11, 2014, 05:49 PM   #26
Art0fLife
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Who says it's either or? The whole point of Apple's strategy is to have both. Continuity plays right into that. I won't write a novel or a complex spreadsheet on an iPad, but I can have it on during an entire flight, and not just below 10,000 ft like with a laptop. Or I can make edits to a PowerPoint while in a cab to my client.
When someone advertises something as a productive device, it implies that the device can do everything you need to get actual real world work done all by itself. The iPad lacks that in almost every area. It's a good supplement to production, but that's about it. It's not efficient at all. Another critical aspect to "productivity'.

We have one, and I like it for very light casual activity, but a work machine it is most certainly not. Not even nearly.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 05:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Art0fLife View Post
To make it even remotely efficient for any of that, you have to buy external hardware to make it useful. Which essentially turns it into a poor man's laptop. Which defeats the entire purpose.
I've been using my iPad without any external hardware for the past 4 years in a university setting. That's not to say that I've been able to replace my laptop completely, but I have written 4 years of papers in multiple languages, dozens of scientific presentations, and many a spreadsheet in my labs. Recently, I've been able to do Python work very comfortably from it as well. I could see how a bluetooth keyboard would definitely be helpful, but even at $70 for an apple keyboard, or $20 for any other generic keyboard, I hardly see how that would be the difference between what qualifies as a poor man's laptop or not.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 05:51 PM   #28
Michael Goff
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"See? See? We have Office too!"

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Old Aug 11, 2014, 05:51 PM   #29
Art0fLife
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Office and iWork both work well for giving presentations and making minor edits on the go. I have never used an external keypad on my iPad mini.
Minor edits. Not production. Again, as I said, good supplement or toy, but hardly a productivity rig.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 05:54 PM   #30
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I love my iPad, but I've tried it for productivity and it's not for me in that department. I find it much more efficient to word process on an iMac or Macbook (even with a bluetooth keyboard) and to sketch and take notes on paper. Youtube, casual browsing, and games -- to me that's what the iPad is for, and at that it excels and is a pleasure to use, especially at night in bed.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 05:55 PM   #31
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I love my IPad but you can't beat a Mac for productivity.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 05:58 PM   #32
Art0fLife
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Originally Posted by Telp View Post
I've been using my iPad without any external hardware for the past 4 years in a university setting. That's not to say that I've been able to replace my laptop completely, but I have written 4 years of papers in multiple languages, dozens of scientific presentations, and many a spreadsheet in my labs. Recently, I've been able to do Python work very comfortably from it as well. I could see how a bluetooth keyboard would definitely be helpful, but even at $70 for an apple keyboard, or $20 for any other generic keyboard, I hardly see how that would be the difference between what qualifies as a poor man's laptop or not.
You must have far more time than the average person for your work. It is so inefficient for almost all of that (especially without basically turning it into a laptop) that it is far from productive. I'd be so tight on timelines from the lack of physical keyboard (and very poor size/layout for typing on it digitally) to make it useful at all for anything other than simply reading or making very minor adjustments. I guess I should adjust my phrasing. It's maybe possible if you REALLY work hard to force it to be and have a lot of time to do it, but it's nowhere near as productive or efficient as a laptop.

By poor man's laptop, I meant not just the cost, but it's lack of power, true multitasking, internal hard drive space, and a near endless list of other important areas it's lacking for an actual work rig. It's nowhere near as good as the iPhone for the mobile part. It's nowhere near as good as the laptop for the actual productivity stuff. It's in that middle area of "fun toy if you have the money for it". Tablets are the "El Caminos" of computing. They are effectively useless as a car for transport, and worse than useless as a truck for actual work. Just something fun to **** around with if you have the money and desire to play with it.

Last edited by Art0fLife; Aug 11, 2014 at 06:06 PM.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 05:59 PM   #33
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The iPads are actually quite productive.

Sure if you want to write essays/novels then you want a full computer, but if you want to tweak an essay/novel then it's perfectly capable of doing that as well as replying to emails etc.

They are more productive than people think, but like I said they are not a full time replacement for a computer in productivity.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 06:02 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by lincolntran View Post
a stylus for a phone? That's even more ridiculous.
In the "Strategy for Great Work" video from this years WWDC (at least I'm pretty sure that's the one) there were several stories about the initial development of the iPhone, the trials and tribulations of predictive text, etc.

Anyways, included was a quote from Steve about how 'if they couldn't make the iPhone work without a stylus, it wouldn't go to market' (bad paraphrase)
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 06:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Telp View Post
How is that a stretch? With apps like Apple's iWork suite, and now Microsoft's Office suite, users are able to write documents, make presentations, and use spreadsheets. All of these which are synced to all devices in real time. There are plenty of apps that allow consumption and annotation of PDF, including digitally signing, marking up, and even faxing off. Not to mention there have been some big strides in certain programing languages on the app store that allow for some very serious programming to be done.

It's taken 7 years to get here, but the iPad has definitely taken great strides in allowing both consumption and productivity.
It's getting there
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 06:09 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by robjulo View Post
An iPad which can't even handle attaching documents to an existing email thread. Productivity, uh no.

The same device that is dumbed down so grandma doesn't get confused can't be the same device for business productivity. One size does not fit all.
You again with that attachment complain again? You've got to let that go and figure out a way to make things work. Be productive!
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 06:17 PM   #37
Michael Goff
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Originally Posted by lincolntran View Post
You again with that attachment complain again? You've got to let that go and figure out a way to make things work. Be productive!
So instead of doing it the easy way, he should come up with a new way to accommodate the device? I thought technology was supposed to be about making things easier?
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 06:19 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by lincolntran View Post
You again with that attachment complain again? You've got to let that go and figure out a way to make things work. Be productive!
For what it's worth, that really bother me too. Let me add attachments to replies already... Seriously, please

I use my iPad for certain productive tasks because I find it is more 'fun' to use
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 06:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio View Post
iPads are about consumption.

Productivity ? That's a stretch.
Maybe for your definition of productivity.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by robjulo View Post
This is the same company that bashed Microsoft for the surface for trying to be both a laptop and tablet. Hypocrisy at its best.
When did Apple say productivity = laptop only?
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 06:31 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Art0fLife View Post
You must have far more time than the average person for your work. It is so inefficient for almost all of that (especially without basically turning it into a laptop) that it is far from productive. I'd be so tight on timelines from the lack of physical keyboard (and very poor size/layout for typing on it digitally) to make it useful at all for anything other than simply reading or making very minor adjustments. I guess I should adjust my phrasing. It's maybe possible if you REALLY work hard to force it to be and have a lot of time to do it, but it's nowhere near as productive or efficient as a laptop.

By poor man's laptop, I meant not just the cost, but it's lack of power, true multitasking, internal hard drive space, and a near endless list of other important areas it's lacking for an actual work rig. It's nowhere near as good as the iPhone for the mobile part. It's nowhere near as good as the laptop for the actual productivity stuff. It's in that middle area of "fun toy if you have the money for it". Tablets are the "El Caminos" of computing. They are effectively useless as a car for transport, and worse than useless as a truck for actual work. Just something fun to **** around with if you have the money and desire to play with it.

So in other words, the iPad isn't good at anything except putzing around with? That's a far statement from, it's good at consumption, but bad at production. Now it's not really good at consumption either but damn does it look cool. Well alright then.

I think it's a fair statement that not everybody could use it as a productivity tool. I would not want to write a novel on an iPad without a bluetooth keyboard, and when I need to do more powerful programming and editing, I definitely switch to my MBP. But if you think I had so much time in the day that I was able to force productivity out of it is just incorrect.

I'm sorry you can't seem to do anything with your iPad except show it off, but if I can buy and annotate textbooks on it, take notes on it, do research on it, I count that as being very productive.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 07:20 PM   #41
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An unproductive productivity ad... All of my email ads go directly to the trash.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 07:41 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Art0fLife View Post
When someone advertises something as a productive device, it implies that the device can do everything you need to get actual real world work done all by itself. The iPad lacks that in almost every area. It's a good supplement to production, but that's about it. It's not efficient at all. Another critical aspect to "productivity'.

We have one, and I like it for very light casual activity, but a work machine it is most certainly not. Not even nearly.
I disagree. All the ads say are that there are productivity apps on the iPad and that you can be productive on it. It doesn't say that it does everything a Mac or Windows PC does or that it has everything one needs to get everything done. For some people, it might. If all you do is write basic letters, or maintain simple spreadsheets it might well enough. But even if it isn't enough in itself, that doesn't mean there is no value in the productivity that it does offer. Apple has been quite clear for some time that they don't view the tablet and PC as interchangeable. That doesn't mean that there is no overlap. A pickup and a sedan aren't interchangeable., but there is a lot of overlap.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art0fLife View Post
Minor edits. Not production. Again, as I said, good supplement or toy, but hardly a productivity rig.
Minor edits can be quite "productive." I've used Word and Excel a lot on airplanes. I don't need to be able to write an entire spreadsheet from scratch to be productive. Making "minor edits" is enough to run through a few scenarios. Having PowerPoint and the ability to read and edit notes while presenting and even re-arrange some content on the fly without taking out my notebook is still productive. I'm not going to haul heavy equipment in my sedan but that doesn't mean I won't make a few trips to Home Depot in it.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 07:43 PM   #43
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#1 rule of customer relationships: never, ever, ever send me a marketing email I didn't explicitly ask for. That is all.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 08:03 PM   #44
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Just make it large enough to display an 8.5x11 doc.

Kinda like Jobs original idea for the design.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 08:39 PM   #45
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I have jailbroken my iPad and added a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard. It's a beautiful setup for my "productivity." Looking forward to a bigger iPhone to step in and take over.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 08:40 PM   #46
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It all depends on what you're producing. I couldn't be productive on a MacBook Air, but I can certainly imagine that an iPad, maybe with an optional bluetooth keyboard, is all that some people need. I have friends for whom being productive means being able to answer emails quickly or putting together a presentation at a moment's notice. I don't see why an iPad wouldn't be enough in those cases.
I think it's fair to say that an iPad is not enough to replace everyone's laptop, but that doesn't mean there isn't a large number of people for whom it's more than sufficient.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 09:06 PM   #47
kylera
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Featured apps in the image?

Arguments aside, does anyone know what apps the two iPads in the middle are showing? The ones between what appears to be MS Word and MS Excel?
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 09:56 PM   #48
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Just another silly internet argument...

When was the last time someone forced you to use your iPad for productivity work? When was the last time someone forced you not to use your iPad for productivity work? Some people are exceptionally good at it, just like some people are exceptionally good at using Dvorak keyboards, but we aren't out with pitchforks because we can't do it.

I've seen some exceptionally fast people using Nexus 7s to get work done. If it floats their boat, then let it. It sure isn't sinking yours.
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 10:17 PM   #49
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Pushing productivity on an iToy?

Tablets will never replace computers in content creation. Office for iPad might be useful for edits on the road, but for major work, I'll take a g3 running OS9 over anything running iOS.

Why are they trying to push their customers into doing things the hard frustrating way when a mac is a much better experience?
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Old Aug 11, 2014, 10:53 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ZacNicholson View Post
i could get a surface if i wanted productivity
You for the '/s'
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