Espresso Enthusiasts

mobilehaathi said:

Sweet! I wish I could hang things on my walls, but the landlord gets angry if I put holes in the wall....

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Really? They won't let you put anything at all on them?

SandboxGeneral said:

As previously mentioned in another thread some time ago and with the knowledge that Scepticalscribe is quite fond of, old world style maps and such, I finally got around to ordering a second frame to hold the remaining map I had purchased a while back.

He is a photo of them together on my wall, albeit not a very good photo, but a photo nonetheless.

The one on the right, which is a modern day map is the one I hung today.

View attachment 496031

(oh yeah, and I like coffee)

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Well, yes. I may have let slip, or - inadvertently mentioned - that I like (well, am fascinated by) old (and indeed, new) maps. Yours look lovely on your walls, and may they offer you a rich source of enjoyment and interest.

Actually, I find that the contemplation of maps is a rich yet soothing source of focus for the mind, and offers much food for thought. Last winter, I treated myself to 'The Times Atlas of the World', a monumental text, a book I had planned to buy for years.

My recent purchases - my maps, that is - have yet to go on a wall…….in fact, I have yet to select nice frames for them; these are tasks I shall enjoy.

mobilehaathi said:

Sweet! I wish I could hang things on my walls, but the landlord gets angry if I put holes in the wall....

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Is there no other way which will allow you to hang something nice on your walls other than by putting a hole in the wall? In any case, you have my sympathy.

SandboxGeneral said:

Really? They won't let you put anything at all on them?

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Scepticalscribe said:

Is there no other way which will allow you to hang something nice on your walls other than by putting a hole in the wall? In any case, you have my sympathy.

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Well I could use sticky hooks, but those don't bear much weight. I'll have to re-read my lease on the matter, but (somewhat related) I explicitly remember that I am forbidden to allow anything to touch the ceiling.

At least I can roast coffee.

mobilehaathi said:

Well I could use sticky hooks, but those don't bear much weight. I'll have to re-read my lease on the matter, but (somewhat related) I explicitly remember that I am forbidden to allow anything to touch the ceiling.

At least I can roast coffee.

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That is most unfortunate; pictures - and maps - on walls can add a lot to the ambience, atmosphere, and sensibility of a set of rooms……

Well, yes, at least you can roast coffee; and drink it, too…...

Scepticalscribe said:

This evening, I have had the most interesting email exchange with Sweet Maria's over an order I had placed.

However, I think our misunderstandings have been cleared up, and it looks as though I will have a few treats in store in the near future…...

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What happened?

Scepticalscribe said:

This evening, I have had the most interesting email exchange with Sweet Maria's over an order I had placed.

However, I think our misunderstandings have been cleared up, and it looks as though I will have a few treats in store in the near future…...

Click to expand...

SandboxGeneral said:

What happened?

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I'm rather curious myself.

My guess is that they were concerned the beans wouldn't be fresh by the time they arrived...

SandboxGeneral said:

What happened?

Click to expand...

mobilehaathi said:

I'm rather curious myself.

My guess is that they were concerned the beans wouldn't be fresh by the time they arrived...

Click to expand...

Yes, I had a feeling that my online correspondence this evening would be of interest to my compadres here on MR.

Oh, some time ago, I placed an order, and they replied quivering with (legitimate) concern over the proposed astronomical cost of shipping one pound of Liquid Amber coffee to western Europe (not, note central Asia; there are only so many cardiac arrests any one company can endure in any given exchange of emails).

As I was travelling back and forth, and as it concerned only one pound of coffee, and, - as it occurred to me I didn't have a grinder, (and it looked as though it would take another age before I got wind of what had might have happened with the grinder), I forgot about it, and let it go, and, indeed, and never actually replied to SM, so that order didn't go through.

Moreover, as denizens of this thread well know, I only followed up the matter of the grinder a few weeks ago (and posted about it, here), as that too had slipped my mind.

Other matters…..preoccupied me. Stuff to do with elections, and so on. Anyway.

Tonight I received a puzzling and puzzled email from Sweet Maria's; they wished me to confirm whether I still wished for this order to go through, and queried my address stating that it differed from that on my credit card address.

Initially, I'll admit I was a bit suspicious, and pointed out that the address in both should be more or less identical, (the unworthy thought occurred that it might have been an attempt to obtain a genuine address for nefarious proposes), although the organisation I work for was mentioned in the address (SM's website had demanded a company name when I registered). Cue discussion on where I work. In passing, I also mentioned the high regard in which their products are held by some of my good friends here.

A further discussion followed over the astronomical cost of transporting one pound of Liquid Amber roasted beans to western Europe, at which point I decided to chance my arm and politely ask for two packets of one pound each of Liquid Amber (they agreed that this was possible).

Then, I was reminded of the discussion on this thread of their recently roasted Ethiopian coffee, and wondered about that. Next up, they asked whether October 1 (the next date when roasting is scheduled) might suit me better as it will offer 'the freshest possible roast', and that they could delay sending the order so that I would be able to have the 'freshest possible beans' (but not, it was pointed out, the single origin Ethiopian, as other single origin coffees will be offered instead), and send them immediately after Oct 1. I requested guidance from them, as they - coffee experts that they are - know best.

The discussion, amiable, and interesting, continues…...

Scepticalscribe said:

Yes, I had a feeling that my online correspondence this evening would be of interest to my compadres here on MR.

Oh, some time ago, I placed an order, and they replied quivering with (legitimate) concern over the proposed astronomical cost of shipping one pound of Liquid Amber coffee to western Europe (not, note central Asia; there are only so many cardiac arrests any one company can endure in any given exchange of emails).

As I was travelling back and forth, and as it concerned only one pound of coffee, and, - as it occurred to me I didn't have a grinder, (and it looked as though it would take another age before I got wind of what had might have happened with the grinder), I forgot about it, and let it go, and, indeed, and never actually replied to SM, so that order didn't go through.

Moreover, as denizens of this thread well know, I only followed up the matter of the grinder a few weeks ago (and posted about it, here), as that too had slipped my mind.

Other matters…..preoccupied me. Stuff to do with elections, and so on. Anyway.

Tonight I received a puzzling and puzzled email from Sweet Maria's; they wished me to confirm whether I still wished for this order to go through, and queried my address stating that it differed from that on my credit card address.

Initially, I'll admit I was a bit suspicious, and pointed out that the address in both should be more or less identical, (the unworthy thought occurred that it might have been an attempt to obtain a genuine address for nefarious proposes), although the organisation I work for was mentioned in the address (SM's website had demanded a company name when I registered). Cue discussion on where I work. In passing, I also mentioned the high regard in which their products are held by some of my good friends here.

A further discussion followed over the astronomical cost of transporting one pound of Liquid Amber roasted beans to western Europe, at which point I decided to chance my arm and politely ask for two packets of one pound each of Liquid Amber (they agreed that this was possible).

Then, I was reminded of the discussion on this thread of their recently roasted Ethiopian coffee, and wondered about that. Next up, they asked whether October 1 (the next date when roasting is scheduled) might suit me better as it will offer 'the freshest possible roast', and that they could delay sending the order so that I would be able to have the 'freshest possible beans' (but not, it was pointed out, the single origin Ethiopian, as other single origin coffees will be offered instead), and send them immediately after Oct 1. I requested guidance from them, as they - coffee experts that they are - know best.

The discussion, amiable, and interesting, continues…...

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Well, you're in for quite a nice package once it makes it out there! I can imagine their confusion, even they must wonder who is so coffee-mad as to pay such exorbitant shipping.

mobilehaathi said:

Well, you're in for quite a nice package once it makes it out there! I can imagine their confusion, even they must wonder who is so coffee-mad as to pay such exorbitant shipping.

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I placed all of the blame - squarely - on the ample shoulders of the enthusiasts who dwell here and admitted to being easily led (misled?) by them…….

However, I did get the impression that they were quite chuffed that their reputation was such that enthusiasts were willing to recommend their wares so that other enthusiasts (such as myself) could sample their wares, and thus, pay so handsomely in order to be able to do so.

Scepticalscribe said:

I placed all of the blame - squarely - on the ample shoulders of the enthusiasts who dwell here and admitted to being easily led (misled?) by them…….

However, I did get the impression that they were quite chuffed that their reputation was such that enthusiasts were willing to recommend their wares so that other enthusiasts (such as myself) could sample their wares, and thus, pay so handsomely in order to be able to do so.

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Quite right, we deserve a fair share of the blame.

Scepticalscribe said:

And, an addendum to tonight's lengthy email correspondence.

Sweet Maria's felt that it might be better if an order for the more freshly ground (most freshly ground) coffee was placed on October 1 (the date when the next roasting is scheduled to take place), and we agreed that they would send me an email to remind me that 1) roasting was taking place and 2) that, therefore, it was time to place an - the - order.

(One part of my mind is looking on from a distance, detached, and stupefied, and asking [me]: 'Have you taken complete leave of your senses, that you are discussing a perfectly ludicrously expensive coffee order - in detail - with a company you have never met and relating these details, in turn, to a bunch of other coffee nut cases who have themselves recommended this company and who are following this exchange with the fervour of the truly committed'?).

Objectively, this thread is crazy, but wonderfully so. And, as our absent friend Dr Shrink would remind us, no expense is too great in pursuit of coffee perfection.

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If you do go through with the order, you would find your beans at their peak within two weeks of roasting. I'd highly recommend ordering such that you're able to use them on arrival (instead of waiting until you're home). It would be the best practice if you're going to pay such an outrageous shipping fee.

mobilehaathi said:

If you do go through with the order, you would find your beans at their peak within two weeks of roasting. I'd highly recommend ordering such that you're able to use them on arrival (instead of waiting until you're home). It would be the best practice if you're going to pay such an outrageous shipping fee.

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Well, sometimes, this cannot be helped, as one does not always know travel dates long in advance.

Indeed, requests that I travel to strange somewheres are sometimes made at very short notice (as happened this morning when I received a phone call). Such is life, or rather, my life, or, to be even more precise, - as a colleague from the Balkans expressed it in a conversation we had a few months ago, "this is the life we have chosen".

And, yes, this means that one is constantly playing guessing games - on the lines of 'if I order this then, to arrive on or around another 'then', will this actually be feasible?"

Scepticalscribe said:

Well, sometimes, this cannot be helped, as one does not always know travel dates long in advance.

Indeed, requests that I travel to strange somewheres are sometimes made at very short notice (as happened this morning when I received a phone call). Such is life, or rather, my life, or, to be even more precise, - as a colleague from the Balkans expressed it in a conversation we had a few months ago, "this is the life we have chosen".

And, yes, this means that one is constantly playing guessing games - on the lines of 'if I order this then, to arrive on or around another 'then', will this actually be feasible?"

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Indeed, I understand. If you can manage it, try for it, otherwise...c'est la vie.

Scepticalscribe said:

Yes, I had a feeling that my online correspondence this evening would be of interest to my compadres here on MR.

Oh, some time ago, I placed an order, and they replied quivering with (legitimate) concern over the proposed astronomical cost of shipping one pound of Liquid Amber coffee to western Europe (not, note central Asia; there are only so many cardiac arrests any one company can endure in any given exchange of emails).

As I was travelling back and forth, and as it concerned only one pound of coffee, and, - as it occurred to me I didn't have a grinder, (and it looked as though it would take another age before I got wind of what had might have happened with the grinder), I forgot about it, and let it go, and, indeed, and never actually replied to SM, so that order didn't go through.

Moreover, as denizens of this thread well know, I only followed up the matter of the grinder a few weeks ago (and posted about it, here), as that too had slipped my mind.

Other matters…..preoccupied me. Stuff to do with elections, and so on. Anyway.

Tonight I received a puzzling and puzzled email from Sweet Maria's; they wished me to confirm whether I still wished for this order to go through, and queried my address stating that it differed from that on my credit card address.

Initially, I'll admit I was a bit suspicious, and pointed out that the address in both should be more or less identical, (the unworthy thought occurred that it might have been an attempt to obtain a genuine address for nefarious proposes), although the organisation I work for was mentioned in the address (SM's website had demanded a company name when I registered). Cue discussion on where I work. In passing, I also mentioned the high regard in which their products are held by some of my good friends here.

A further discussion followed over the astronomical cost of transporting one pound of Liquid Amber roasted beans to western Europe, at which point I decided to chance my arm and politely ask for two packets of one pound each of Liquid Amber (they agreed that this was possible).

Then, I was reminded of the discussion on this thread of their recently roasted Ethiopian coffee, and wondered about that. Next up, they asked whether October 1 (the next date when roasting is scheduled) might suit me better as it will offer 'the freshest possible roast', and that they could delay sending the order so that I would be able to have the 'freshest possible beans' (but not, it was pointed out, the single origin Ethiopian, as other single origin coffees will be offered instead), and send them immediately after Oct 1. I requested guidance from them, as they - coffee experts that they are - know best.

The discussion, amiable, and interesting, continues…...

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It sounds like you've gotten some arrangements worked out. I sure hope the beans arrive to you safely and at the expected time.

I'm very confident that you'll be pleased with them.

SandboxGeneral said:

It sounds like you've gotten some arrangements worked out. I sure hope the beans arrive to you safely and at the expected time.

I'm very confident that you'll be pleased with them.

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Doubtless, the beans will meet the standards that everyone here has already written about when they do eventually arrive. However, as is the crazy way of things, I may not be there to meet them for a few weeks……..

Never mind. The road taken in the pursuit of perfection is a long, well trodden one, with many detours and delays. Meanwhile, I have several coffees from Intelligentsia (thank you, fellow forum members and coffee aficionados) to console me.

For, I have finished my supply of the lovely "Los Delirios" from Nicaragua, and have started on the quite delightful - rich, yet smooth and sweet - "Los Inmortales" from El Salvador, both courtesy of Intelligentsia.

Scepticalscribe said:

Doubtless, the beans will meet the standards that everyone here has already written about when they do eventually arrive. However, as is the crazy way of things, I may not be there to meet them for a few weeks……..

Never mind. The road taken in the pursuit of perfection is a long, well trodden one, with many detours and delays. Meanwhile, I have several coffees from Intelligentsia (thank you, fellow forum members and coffee aficionados) to console me.

For, I have finished my supply of the lovely "Los Delirios" from Nicaragua, and have started on the quite delightful - rich, yet smooth and sweet - "Los Inmortales" from El Salvador, both courtesy of Intelligentsia.

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Which only whets the appetite!

mobilehaathi said:

Which only whets the appetite!

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Indeed it does…….

However, it is not all deprivation and self-denial. This is because there are some (formerly) troubled spots where they pride themselves on their coffee culture and on the quality of the coffee they serve (the various countries of the Balkans come to mind)…..

Scepticalscribe said:

Indeed it does…….

However, it is not all deprivation and self-denial. This is because there are some (formerly) troubled spots where they pride themselves on their coffee culture and on the quality of the coffee they serve (the various countries of the Balkans come to mind)…..

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Quite right. There is nothing quite like enjoying coffee (or beer, or Armangac, etc.) crafted by passionate and prideful people.

mobilehaathi said:

Quite right. There is nothing quite like enjoying coffee (or beer, or Armangac, etc.) crafted by passionate and prideful people.

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I couldn't agree more.

Products crafted with 'passionate pride' in general, are of a far higher quality, tend to taste an awful lot better, and buying and supporting them tends to help create (and enable) local employment (and professional fulfilment).

Quite apart from the sheer pleasure of being able to sample and savour excellent, (and often not widely available)products, the additional pleasure of trying out new styles of something - prompted by curiosity and personal recommendations, not marketing - there is also the very satisfying feeling that one is often supporting something decent and good, supporting the continued economic existence of something worth preserving…....

I could really use some help please guys. Having spent a small fortune on my Gaggia Classic, Iberital MC2 burr grinder and all the trimmings, Im not always getting consistent results. Ive gone through nearly a kilo of beans trying to get it right. In the end, I end up using any poor extractions to make lattes and adding flavoured syrup just to get it to taste nice!!

Ive done loads of reading, watched loads of youtube videos, but I'm still struggling a little. So, below is a write up of what I've been doing, please feel free to pull me up on any aspect...


Im currently getting my beans directly from a small local producer, North Star.




Im working to the formula of 18/20 grammes of coffee in the basket, whilst trying to get a total extraction of 1.6 to 2 x the weight of coffee.

18 x 1.6 = 28g total extraction from the porafilter into the shot glass. This equates to about 1oz in volume.

Im then trying to achieve the above with an extraction time of 30 seconds, but this is where I'm struggling as I'm achieving this in about 15 seconds. Is 28g/1oz the correct amount of extraction?

1) I pre warm the Gaggis for 10-20 mins.

2) Ive set the grinder to as fine as I dare, I don't want to adjust it any finer incase the teeth start to cut against each other.





3) Ive adjusted the grinders timer so that I'm producing 18g of coffee (after deducting weight of basket).







4) Im tamping quite hard to try and increase the extraction time.





5) Before inserting the portafilter, I pull some hot water through until the light goes off, allowing the water to start getting back up to temperature.

6) After inserting the portafilter, I allow about 3 seconds worth of water into the portafilter to dampen it.

7) After a short pause, and once the light has come back on, I turn the water back on and time the extraction. After about only 10/15 seconds I'm already achieving 28g extraction.



Which usually looks like this..







At 30 seconds I'm achieving twice this extraction (2oz).





So, am I doing anything wrong? Am I correct in trying to achieve a 1oz extraction in 30 seconds, or have I got this wrong? I don't feel I want to tamp any harder, and Im worried if I adjust the grinder any finer then the teeth will grind against each other. Also, 18g of ground coffee doesn't quite fill the basket, and videos I've watched shows folk over filling and then levelling the coffee.

Thanks

Big Stevie said:

I could really use some help please guys. Having spent a small fortune on my Gaggia Classic, Iberital MC2 burr grinder and all the trimmings, Im not always getting consistent results. Ive gone through nearly a kilo of beans trying to get it right. In the end, I end up using any poor extractions to make lattes and adding flavoured syrup just to get it to taste nice!!

Ive done loads of reading, watched loads of youtube videos, but I'm still struggling a little. So, below is a write up of what I've been doing, please feel free to pull me up on any aspect...


Im currently getting my beans directly from a small local producer, North Star.

Image


Im working to the formula of 18/20 grammes of coffee in the basket, whilst trying to get a total extraction of 1.6 to 2 x the weight of coffee.

18 x 1.6 = 28g total extraction from the porafilter into the shot glass. This equates to about 1oz in volume.

Im then trying to achieve the above with an extraction time of 30 seconds, but this is where I'm struggling as I'm achieving this in about 15 seconds. Is 28g/1oz the correct amount of extraction?

1) I pre warm the Gaggis for 10-20 mins.

2) Ive set the grinder to as fine as I dare, I don't want to adjust it any finer incase the teeth start to cut against each other.

Image



3) Ive adjusted the grinders timer so that I'm producing 18g of coffee (after deducting weight of basket).

Image

Image



4) Im tamping quite hard to try and increase the extraction time.

Image



5) Before inserting the portafilter, I pull some hot water through until the light goes off, allowing the water to start getting back up to temperature.

6) After inserting the portafilter, I allow about 3 seconds worth of water into the portafilter to dampen it.

7) After a short pause, and once the light has come back on, I turn the water back on and time the extraction. After about only 10/15 seconds I'm already achieving 28g extraction.

Image

Which usually looks like this..

Image

Image



At 30 seconds I'm achieving twice this extraction (2oz).

Image



So, am I doing anything wrong? Am I correct in trying to achieve a 1oz extraction in 30 seconds, or have I got this wrong? I don't feel I want to tamp any harder, and Im worried if I adjust the grinder any finer then the teeth will grind against each other. Also, 18g of ground coffee doesn't quite fill the basket, and videos I've watched shows folk over filling and then levelling the coffee.

Thanks

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Locally roasted beans, yay! When were they roasted? You'll find your best pulls coming within 2 weeks of roasting, so always try to get the most recently roasted beans you can get.

I've been following Mr. Kruwenal's advice, pulling 60ml in 25-30s with 14-18g in the basket. Grind and dosage will depend on your beans and roast level, so you'll have to re-calibrate each time you start a new batch. It is oft repeated, but I'll do it again. Only adjust one variable at a time.

How do your shots taste? That's probably your best guide.

If you're going for a ristretto, Kruwenal's your man. I haven't attempted any of those yet.

Sorry if my advice is a bit thin, I'm still a newbie and still very much learning myself.

Hi. Relax. Especially with new equipment, this is typical. You just need some practice and a few pointers and you will be pulling great shots.

I am going to assume that the issue is not your water, coffee, or espresso maker. It may be one or more of those, but, for now, let's focus only on your grind, dose and tamp. And, for purposes of this email, I am going to focus only on dose and tamp. I think this is where your primary issue is.

First, how do your shots taste? If I give you only three choices, which one describes your shots: bitter, sour, strong. Pick only one.

Next, a question about this statement:

Big Stevie said:

Im not always getting consistent results.

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What does not consistent mean? Do you mean that if you make two espressos, usually exactly the same everything, the taste is not (more or less) consistent? I mean exactly the same everything, same water, same coffee, same machine settings, same warm up time, same grind, same dose, same tamp, same basket, same tamper, same time of day, etc. If you do that, two drinks in a row, do they taste the same? Or do you mean something different?

Next, you said you are trying to tamp hard to reduce shot time. Don't do that. One secret of espresso is: fanatical consistency. With respect to tamping, your goal must be to tamp every shot exactly the same, at 30 pounds of pressure. If you aren't sure what 30 pounds of pressure means, go practice on a scale (I assume there is a UK equivalent to this). We may get to changing your tamping, but we will do that only in a controlled way and only if we hold every single other variable absolutely constant.

Next, your recipe, which you described as:

Im working to the formula of 18/20 grammes of coffee in the basket, whilst trying to get a total extraction of 1.6 to 2 x the weight of coffee.

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"18/20" won't do. There is a huge difference between 18 and 20. Remember, you are after fanatical consistency.

My advice is to focus on making a double espresso. The ristretto can come later. Your single espresso actually looks pretty good to me (your doppio looks way, way overextracted to me); it even has some mottling, which suggests your equipment is doing well. I think your primary issue is dosing and tamping. Tamping is addressed above....30 pounds...no more, no less. Let's talk about dosing now.

What size basket are you using? From one of your pictures, I guess you are using a 20 or 22 gram basket? You can keep using that, but it will be easier to learn with a small basket. Do you have an 18 gram basket? Or something else? We can use anything for this process, but let me know what you have and I can help you pick one to practice on.


So, our goal is to make a doppio, and you are going to hold everything fanatically constant, other than the one variable I will mention in a second. Dose 18 grams into the basket. Only 18. Not 17. Not 19. Not 20. Only 18 grams. I assume the coffee will not be above the lip of the basket (based on one of your pictures....), right? So, spread the coffee around in the basket with your finger to make it more or less flatish in the basket, ie, no mound of coffee in the middle. Then, take your tamper and apply 30 pounds of pressure. Apply it for about 5 seconds, evenly across the portafilter, and then spin the tamper clockwise around the top of the coffee twice. This is called polishing, and it helps to give the machine something even to push against.

Now, go pull the shot. Your goal is to use those 18 grams of coffee to make 60 ml (2 fluid ounces) of coffee in about 25 seconds. That's it. That's all you need to do. Note: I used ml here since that is what is on the side of your shot glass.

Time your shot. If it takes much less than 25 seconds, then adjust your grinder to make the grind more fine. If it takes much more than 25 seconds, then adjust your grinder to make the grind more coarse. Make tiny little adjustments to your grinder. And, I will repeat this: do not change any other variable. Adjust only the grind. You must keep every other variable absolutely and fanatically constant.

Get a pound of coffee and play with this until you get 60 ml (including crema) in about 25 seconds. "About" 25 seconds depends on your taste, but can be anywhere from 20-30 seconds.

Keep doing that until you get something that tastes good and that took about 25 seconds to pull. Then post a picture of that shot and we'll see what else needs to be adjusted.

Why 18 grams? Go look at this post.

Why not grind a little finer?