More fool, me. But I see from later in the thread that it's not a general thing, vendors get so many and they can't just add more. So it's sorta like how I thought it was. :|
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1Password no longer syncs because I didn't buy from MAS?
- Thread starter Razeus
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More fool, me. But I see from later in the thread that it's not a general thing, vendors get so many and they can't just add more. So it's sorta like how I thought it was. :|
What else could we tell you? There's simply no way it'll work with the webstore version now. In order for an app to access CloudKit it has to be signed by Apple. There's no way to get an app signed by Apple unless it's from the App Store or Mac App Store. Any other non-signed app will not be allowed access to CloudKit.
I am sorry for the inconvenience this causes, if you talked to us via our support email could you please send me a private message with the email address, or ticket ID from that conversation?
We have, but adding more sync options isn't necessarily an easy thing. We've looked at a few other sync tools and the way their APIs work just boggled our minds. There's a reason Dropbox is so ubiquitous among sync solutions, it's pretty darn good. I'm not sure any other sync solution actually compares when it comes to API options and functionality.
There are a few things that matter to us:
1) How practical the API is
2) What platforms it supports. We support iCloud via CloudKit because a majority of our users are Mac/iOS. But going forward we would rather choose solutions that fit more platforms (Windows, Android, Windows Phone, in addition to iOS and Mac)
3) It has to work with how we've designed 1Password's data format. Shockingly enough we've found a few that just will not work with it at all due to design decisions the sync solution has chosen.
4) Is it feasible to support? By support I mean, is it going to be difficult to maintain? If so, it's probably not a good choice for us. Also, is it going to be easy to support when things go wrong and our support team has to get involved? The more options you give someone the more difficult it is to have several people who are experts on all things. I have a hard enough time keeping up with iCloud, Dropbox and Wifi. Adding more will stretch me and my colleagues into a situation where we may not be able to provide as great of support as we do for the existing solutions and that's bad for the users.
I'm not sure exactly where OneDrive falls in this, but these are things we must consider. The reason why CloudKit was chosen was because iCloud Document syncing was ... to put it bluntly, unreliable at best. When things went wrong it was a mystery as to how to fix it in a lot of cases. When we can't support our users when things go wrong that's a problem. CloudKit improves on this a great deal by providing sanity where old iCloud sync was magical. When magical things go wrong it's difficult to fix. As one of the primary people involved in trying to troubleshoot issues with iCloud syncing, I'm glad to see it gone in favor of CloudKit. It's just unfortunate that it can only be used with Apple distributed flavors of the application.
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Correct, developers are limited to 100 per release of an application. Up from 50 before. With apps as popular as 1Password 100 doesn't go far.
To those who think "Just release more updates to get more" that is bothersome to users because they have to update more frequently... then you might think, but the MAS updates automatically. If the MAS version number is different from the website version then we start getting asked a lot of questions. We used to offset the version numbers, odd being from one distribution even being from the other. It helped our support team know exactly which a user was using but we had hundreds of questions on a regular basis why they were different and they wanted the newer release. Website users have to update by clicking various buttons, it's not automatic.
Plus, it takes 3-5 days to get approval on an app, so that would only really get us ~200 codes a week, with millions of users that doesn't really go far.
So, promo codes aren't an option.
Agkyle when should we expect to be able to sync multiple vaults in iCloud. Why can we only sync one as of now?
Yea, it's not something we can fix. We kind of skirted around the problem with the website version previously because technically we could access the files directly on the file system. We could do the same with iCloud Drive, but in the last (nearly) 2 years of working with iCloud Document Syncing (now iCloud Drive) it never really worked as well as it should've. For some it worked great, for others it was constantly prone to problems.
So, we switched to CloudKit syncing, only available in iOS 8 and Yosemite. This, however, does require that you have MAS and App Store versions of each application as CloudKit is more or less a database in the cloud. To access all of that does require the Mac App Store version. On the plus side, this means we get real errors that we can use to troubleshoot issues with users experiencing problems and removes a great deal of guesswork. It's also incredibly cool how it all works. It's the iCloud sync we kind of wish we had from the beginning.
We included iCloud sync in the website version because we could but we never really advertised that because it could disappear any day.
Wifi sync got some great updates though, it's now automatic, can sync all vaults and includes attachments nowIt's almost enough to get me to consider using it full time now and probably will once I get my Mac Mini setup after moving and use it as the master computer for all syncing.
If you were adversely hit by the iCloud sync issue, please let me know via private message so I can see what we can do to assist.
Even though I have been a lurker on macrumors for over 2 years, i only created an account this month, therefor I am not yet allowed to PM anyone.
On another note, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain and be thorough about your replies here on the forum.
That one isn't super high on the list I don't think. The reason is fairly simple really.
You can't share vaults via iCloud. Only people using the same iCloud account can use the data contained within it. A vast majority of people use multiple vaults I think so they can share with a spouse or family member. But sharing AppleIDs for iCloud isn't really a good option.
So, our general stance at this point is that the primary vault is fine to have on iCloud because it is often a user's primary vault. But secondary vaults are a shared vault and since this cannot be done via iCloud it's a bit lower on the priority list.
The only other use case is that a user uses multiple vaults for organizational purposes. In many cases this can simply be worked around by using folders and tags. So there's a valid work around for it.
Admittedly there are users who want what you want but I think it's a bit less of a request than many other things we receive. Hopefully the above gives some perspective on why it isn't in there at the moment though
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Well, we need to fix that then.
Please email me directly, my first name at agilebits.com and we'll get it worked out. Everyone else, please stick to the private message since I'm redirecting those to our primary support system so that i and others can assist you more quickly.
My pleasure with the responses on here. It's fun to interact with everyone on here and I hope it helps others as well. Get in touch and I'll see what we can do to help get things resolved for you as well.
Tbh, I'd rather trust my vaults in Dropbox then iCloud, especially since 1Password's use of iCloud sync uses work arounds, and not actual APIs. I'd be rather concerned that with a tweak here or there from Apple and suddenly iCloud syncing would break.
While I can understand your concern, and this is also why we never promised iCloud support with the website version and always told customers to purchase from the MAS when they wanted iCloud support:
https://guides.agilebits.com/1password-mac-kb/4/en/topic/mas-vs-agile-store
This page has moved around a bit due to us changing documentation systems a few times (it'd be great if we could find one we like) but the message has always been the same.
That said, the workarounds we used were pretty straight forward. Old iCloud used to write out the data from Document syncing to ~/Library/Mobile Documents/ and we just read that location directly when using the website version. The MAS version more or less has to pass a developer id to NSFileManager and then it receives an object that allows access (sandboxing as well) to that location, or it fails and no access is granted if settings are off or the id is wrong.
It was pretty straight forward but like you, we never knew if Apple was going to change things and break it and this is why we never advertised or suggested purchasing the website version if iCloud sync was a needed feature.
Like I said earlier though, I am sorry for the trouble that people have had. If you were adversely hit by this change then please private message me, or on the iCloud FAQ page you may see floating around there's an email on there that you can use to get in touch with us.
I agree that the negative posts don't help at all. The issues I have had in the past, Kyle and Agilebits have helped me so much. This is the 1st app that I have recommended to people and they are very happy with it.
Dropbox is safe and only you can make it as safe as you want. I have 2 step verification on for extra protection. So a hacker would need my:
Password
Cellphone
Password to my cell phone
Then my long master password to the 1Password vault
So it's pretty safe at this point.
Looks like I am going to have to pay for 1Password again. Bought it from the website now doesn't have iCloud support. So I need to buy from the MAS to get the iCloud support back. Wouldn't be a problem if I didn't use the app, on all my devices, so much and need to make sure my passwords are synced without additional steps, as in WiFi sync. Looks like another $35
Looks like I am going to have to pay for 1Password again. Bought it from the website now doesn't have iCloud support. So I need to buy from the MAS to get the iCloud support back. Wouldn't be a problem if I didn't use the app, on all my devices, so much and need to make sure my passwords are synced without additional steps, as in WiFi sync. Looks like another $35
Email their support....they should have proof of your web license and somehow be able to convert it to a MAS version (hopefully).
Looks like I am going to have to pay for 1Password again. Bought it from the website now doesn't have iCloud support. So I need to buy from the MAS to get the iCloud support back. Wouldn't be a problem if I didn't use the app, on all my devices, so much and need to make sure my passwords are synced without additional steps, as in WiFi sync. Looks like another $35
Please email our support team:
support+webstoreicloud@agilebits.com
There isn't a lot I can do over this forum (it isn't our support forum) so please email in and we'll take a look at what we can do to help.
Yes, I've emailed your support people so hopefully I'll hear back from them. It just feels like I keep paying for 1Password over and over again for one reason or another. it is what it is. Still a great product that I recommend, but I'll highly recommend people get it from MAS from now on. Apple really screwed the pooch with this and their lack of being able to covert licenses from outside MAS into MAS versions is maddening, but I guess they have incentive not to do that.
it is what it is. Still a great product that I recommend, but I'll highly recommend people get it from MAS from now on. Apple really screwed the pooch with this and their lack of being able to covert licenses from outside MAS into MAS versions is maddening, but I guess they have incentive not to do that.Yes, I've emailed your support people so hopefully I'll hear back from them. It just feels like I keep paying for 1Password over and over again for one reason or another.
Great, we'll get in touch as soon as we can. There is a bit of a backlog in that queue so it may take several days for us to get in touch, we really appreciate your patience (and everyone else's) while we try to work through these on a case by case basis.
As a happy 1Password user, I have to ask, why would people want to use iCloud sync over Dropbox sync? Why is the one perceived to be intrinsically better than the other?
Please don't waste anyone's time dredging up how evil Dropbox supposedly is, or how broken iCloud supposedly is, all of that has been pretty thoroughly debunked in this thread. I'm interested in why everyone is so adamant that they have to have iCloud sync.
Myself, I use 1Password cross-platform (Android, iOS, Mac, Windows), so Dropbox is what I use.
Please don't waste anyone's time dredging up how evil Dropbox supposedly is, or how broken iCloud supposedly is, all of that has been pretty thoroughly debunked in this thread. I'm interested in why everyone is so adamant that they have to have iCloud sync.
Myself, I use 1Password cross-platform (Android, iOS, Mac, Windows), so Dropbox is what I use.
Many people like consistency and simplicity. With iCloud drive. If you are primarily a mac user as most are here. Why would you want dropbox for a single task?
I agree I don't want Dropbox for a single task, that means I also have to have Dropbox on all my devices. I use OneDrive as my primary cloud storage and use iCloud for everything Apple and Mac related. I have even changed programs that have been Dropbox sync only. The reason I like using iCloud is because it's built into the ecosystem and doesn't require a program.
Well support says there's nothing they can do for me.
Either I'm force to use 2 different systems for cloud syncing or stick to one. Since I prefer to keep all my app data in iCloud for the simplicity of having all my apps backed up and synced there, I'm going to have stick with iCloud since it's native and built in.
Judging by the comments on the Agilebits blog, I hope they learned a lesson from all this. They basically stole money from people when they sold version 4 outside of MAS as they never mentioned future versions of iCloud will be incompatible by doing so. Now they are trying to apologize by saying they should have turned the feature off when version 4 launched.
This will be the last $35 I spend with this company if this happens again. In hindsight, it seems Lastpass would have been much cheaper, and that will be my next option if Agilebits continues to screw over it's customers.
Either I'm force to use 2 different systems for cloud syncing or stick to one. Since I prefer to keep all my app data in iCloud for the simplicity of having all my apps backed up and synced there, I'm going to have stick with iCloud since it's native and built in.
Judging by the comments on the Agilebits blog, I hope they learned a lesson from all this. They basically stole money from people when they sold version 4 outside of MAS as they never mentioned future versions of iCloud will be incompatible by doing so. Now they are trying to apologize by saying they should have turned the feature off when version 4 launched.
This will be the last $35 I spend with this company if this happens again. In hindsight, it seems Lastpass would have been much cheaper, and that will be my next option if Agilebits continues to screw over it's customers.
I honestly switched over to the Dropbox sync during the iOS 8 and Yosemite betas because of the conversion to iCloud Drive. I didn't trust what Apple was doing and if they broke it I would lose all my data. I normally don't store anything sensitive in Dropbox, but since the file is encrypted and I use two step authentication I feel confident that data is safe there and always accessible.
I agree with you I will be looking to go back to LastPass. At least with a subscription based service I will always have the newest version that works how it is advertised when I bought it and if things change I can cancel.
Agilebits didn't steal money from you or anyone else. The issue had been talked about on this forum previously, as well as their own site which Kyle linked to. Agilebits hasn't hid any information from customers nor have they tried to deceive anyone.
If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at Apple, as they are the reason why Agilebits cannot do what you would like their product to do via their own website store purchase. Their hands are tied.
Edited to add: Here is the link on their website that took me less than 30 seconds to find.
"To use iCloud sync you should purchase 1Password from the Mac App Store. Other than that, the choice is up to you. We support both versions fully."
https://guides.agilebits.com/1password-mac-kb/4/en/topic/mas-vs-agile-store
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None of that info was included on the version 4 store page. The fact that you linked to a support site shows they purposely hid it.
If it was shown on the version 4 website that this wouldn't work with future versions of iCloud sync or that it's best to buy from MAS for iCloud sync, I could have made a better decision.
The fact that Agilebits themselves are apologizing to users on its own blog because "they should have hid iCloud Sync on the webstore version of the product" shows they knew what they were doing and had intent to deceive. Even worse, they didn't say anything until after the cat was out of the bag.
But hey, it's my fault. I should have bought Version 3 from MAS instead of giving the developer 100% of the money from the get go. I don't know what I was thinking with that decision.
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For starters... I have a very strong preference to buy software from the MAS. I love the fact that MAS purchases update themselves automatically and asynchronously from use. By contrast... non-MAS purchases generally sit there out of date... until you launch the app... and then... at the worst possible moment in time (when you wan to use the app right now)... you have to go through an update process.
Something really needs to be compelling for me to use non-MAS software.
1Password specific: I bought 1Password 2, and got a free upgrade to 1Password 3. Then... a few years ago... I purchased 1Password 3 (even though I had a license) on the MAS because of my preference for MAS software, and under the advice from Kyle that all MAS customers would get a free upgrade to 1Password 4. I bought it during the black friday 1/2 price sale.
Since then, I got my free upgrade to 1Password 4 and now another free upgrade to 1Password 5.
Bottom line: I paid for 1.5 versions (1PW2 & half price on 1PW3 )... and I have used 4 versions of their software. I personally think that is a petty exceptional upgrade policy.
/Jim
Something really needs to be compelling for me to use non-MAS software.
1Password specific: I bought 1Password 2, and got a free upgrade to 1Password 3. Then... a few years ago... I purchased 1Password 3 (even though I had a license) on the MAS because of my preference for MAS software, and under the advice from Kyle that all MAS customers would get a free upgrade to 1Password 4. I bought it during the black friday 1/2 price sale.
Since then, I got my free upgrade to 1Password 4 and now another free upgrade to 1Password 5.
Bottom line: I paid for 1.5 versions (1PW2 & half price on 1PW3 )... and I have used 4 versions of their software. I personally think that is a petty exceptional upgrade policy.
/Jim
I was in the same position. I contacted Agilebits (1Password developers) and they gave me a code so as I could switch to the Mac AppStore version free of charge from their webstore version that I was using previously.
Might be worth you doing this. On the few occasions I've contacted support they have been absolutely superb, cannot fault them.
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I emailed them over a week ago and have received no reply, other than the standard automated "we received your email" response. I may just stay on Mavericks and 1P4.