A TV stole dollars worth of movies from my collection

Anonymous Freak · Oct 21, 2014

trucker77 said:
your congratulating her for stealing 40 dollars worth of movies so that is right its ok for a company to take whats yours and charge you again for it

"Sara T" did not "steal" 40 dollars worth of movies from you. You were a difficult, belligerent customer (I'm not saying you didn't have the right to be annoyed/angry,) and the rep avoided becoming difficult like some other recent encounters *cough*Comcast*cough*

The simple fact is, Apple *DOES* have disclaimers about future availability of movies, and DOES tell you to download them to a device (iTunes on a computer) to guarantee long-term availability. Downloading to a device has the benefit of making sure that even if the iTunes store goes belly-up and Apple goes out of business, you'll still be able to watch them.

Plus, if you download them to a computer with iTunes, you then use iTunes Home Sharing to watch it, and it streams from your home computer over your local WiFi, and you don't have to worry about internet slowdowns causing buffering or quality reduction.

I'm sorry that you did not know this previously - it isn't OBVIOUSLY written, but it is written. Apple SHOULD do more to make it obvious that movies may disappear from iTunes in the Cloud streaming, with more prominent warnings to download.

But taking it out on a poor entry-level customer service rep won't do *ANYTHING*. If the customer service rep can't resolve your issue, calmly ask for a manager to call you. If the manager can't help you, ask for THEIR manager, and start berating that person. Contact the company's customer relations department (not the customer *SERVICE* department,) to complain. Find out the VP of customer relations and email them.

But berating the entry-level CSR will *NEVER* help. Those people have a bad enough job as it is.

Edit: P.S. Right here, on the iTunes page: (footnote 5)

Previous purchases may be unavailable if they are no longer in the iTunes Store, App Store, or iBooks

If Apple loses the license to distribute content, they are legally forbidden from distributing the content. Cloud or no cloud, there is nothing Apple can do about it. This is true of any "cloud media" service, and has been witnessed by Kindle owners, where Amazon even went so far as to delete the content from devices it was already downloaded on. Be thankful Apple has made clear they will never do that!

wilkinxp · Oct 22, 2014

I just went into my iTunes cloud library and yes is true I no longer have these two movies available for watching or download. I installed the Disney movie app on my iPhone, to my surprise Iron man 2 and Thor are still available for download there. I suggest you try to download again from the Disney app and sync back to your iTunes library. As of this moment I will stop buying movies from apple. I have already purchase more than 600 movies and that's a lot of money to throw away. I feel sorry myself now. The only thing that change from these films is that they added the new version of iTunes extra. This shouldn't be a reason for the movies to be removed from my icloud.

gnasher729 · Oct 22, 2014

d21mike said:
Please explain why the OP is unable to download movies that are currently still being sold on iTunes? Obviously the distributor did not pull them from iTunes. Both movies mentioned are still being sold. Something is very strange with this entire Thread.

No matter what happened, when you buy a movie from the iTunes store you pay for _one_ download, and it is up to you to make sure that you keep that download and/or have a backup.

It is usually possible to download the movie again, but that is just for your convenience and not part of your contract with Apple.

blue43fan · Oct 22, 2014

Iron Man 2 sucked anyway.

Gjwilly · Oct 22, 2014

gnasher729 said:
No matter what happened, when you buy a movie from the iTunes store you pay for _one_ download, and it is up to you to make sure that you keep that download and/or have a backup.

It is usually possible to download the movie again, but that is just for your convenience and not part of your contract with Apple.

Except that the Apple TV doesn't allow for any permanent downloads.
If Apple is going to continue to market it as a stand-alone player then they should change the UI to allow rentals only and force purchases to be made only from a computer.

Apple_Robert · Oct 22, 2014

Make the movie purchase from your Mac. Back it up, and then you watch it on your Apple tv.

JackieInCo · Oct 22, 2014

BasicGreatGuy said:
Make the movie purchase from your Mac. Back it up, and then you watch it on your Apple tv.

Then you start running out of space. Over the years, I have made over 250 HD movie purchases, 6,789 TV shows including complete seasons of Lost, 24, the Office, Parks and Rec, 30 Rock and so many others. There comes a point when storing them just doesn't make sense and the cloud just does.

madeirabhoy · Oct 22, 2014

JackieInCo said:
Then you start running out of space. Over the years, I have made over 250 HD movie purchases, 6,789 TV shows including complete seasons of Lost, 24, the Office, Parks and Rec, 30 Rock and so many others. There comes a point when storing them just doesn't make sense and the cloud just does.

how much have you spent with itunes over the years?

Apple_Robert · Oct 22, 2014

JackieInCo said:
Then you start running out of space. Over the years, I have made over 250 HD movie purchases, 6,789 TV shows including complete seasons of Lost, 24, the Office, Parks and Rec, 30 Rock and so many others. There comes a point when storing them just doesn't make sense and the cloud just does.

If a person wants to be able to have every movie or show they have purchased available regardless of what happens with Apple, there aren't a lot of choices outside of buying more hard drives or storing online outside of Apple control.

It would be nice not to have to worry about anything disappearing after purchase. Unfortunately, that can and will happen from time to time.

For those like yourself, who have big collections, I understand your position. Roll the dice and hope you don't have a purchase disappear later on.

JackieInCo · Oct 22, 2014

madeirabhoy said:
how much have you spent with itunes over the years?

I wouldn't even be able to begin to figure it out. I have never spent more then $10 on an HD movie and the TV show seasons, I wait till they are on sale. I bought every season of Parks, the Office and 30 Rock for $10 per season.

BasicGreatGuy said:
If a person wants to be able to have every movie or show they have purchased available regardless of what happens with Apple, there aren't a lot of choices outside of buying more hard drives or storing online outside of Apple control.

It would be nice not to have to worry about anything disappearing after purchase. Unfortunately, that can and will happen from time to time.

For those like yourself, who have big collections, I understand your position. Roll the dice and hope you don't have a purchase disappear later on.

For me, I have only seen one movie come and go from my cloud purchases and that was Poltergeist 2. It was on sale for $4.99 for the SD version some years ago do I bought it. It's come and gone twice so far. I have since replaced it with the BR rip so I am not too worried.

scottw324 · Oct 22, 2014

It must be that I am oldschool or something because I really have no sympathy for you in this scenario. First off, it wasn't Apple TV that did anything. It was your iTunes account and Apple/content providers.

Second, Sara is an employee. She didn't steal anything from you. Nothing went into her pocket.

Third, if you are smart, anything you purchase online, you should keep a back up of it. I have redundancies to cover data loss with my computer. I have a 1TB Mac Mini with three 4 TB ext HDDs connected to it. One of those HDDs stores all my iTunes content. Another is used for Time Machine to back up the Mac Mini and iTunes content ext HDD. The third ext HDD is used as a manual backup of the iTunes content ext HDD. All three would have to crash for me to lose all my content/files. I suggest something a long these lines for future reference. Do not always rely on another company to store your content. If it is there, great. If not, you have a copy of it.

I understand your frustrated, I would be a bit as well, but there are steps you can/should take to alleviate/eliminate this as an issue in the future.

betman · Oct 22, 2014

scottw324 said:
It must be that I am oldschool or something because I really have no sympathy for you in this scenario. First off, it wasn't Apple TV that did anything. It was your iTunes account and Apple/content providers.

Apple is responsible for iTunes. Guy made a purchase and suddenly they say he's not entitled to it any more because it's now a "different product?" What a load of bs...

I'd understand if the distributor pulled a film and/or Apple lost the right to continue to offer it and had to take it down. But what happened here is quite ridiculous.

A lot of people use Apple TV to watch their purchases and don't play them back/download them to their laptop. Others have an iPad but not a laptop so they can't really do backups, and if their iPad gets lost they simply rely on downloading from the cloud.

I agree that the customer service rep isn't to blame and the wrong approach was taken here, but the fact is that this is a lousy cop-out approach by Apple that has ripped off a customer and no longer made a product they purchased available to them (even though the product is still openly available on iTunes).

laurim · Oct 22, 2014

betman said:
Apple is responsible for iTunes. Guy made a purchase and suddenly they say he's not entitled to it any more because it's now a "different product?" What a load of bs...

I'd understand if the distributor pulled a film and/or Apple lost the right to continue to offer it and had to take it down. But what happened here is quite ridiculous.

A lot of people use Apple TV to watch their purchases and don't play them back/download them to their laptop. Others have an iPad but not a laptop so they can't really do backups, and if their iPad gets lost they simply rely on downloading from the cloud.

I agree that the customer service rep isn't to blame and the wrong approach was taken here, but the fact is that this is a lousy cop-out approach by Apple that has ripped off a customer and no longer made a product they purchased available to them (even though the product is still openly available on iTunes).

I know it's tempting for many people nowadays to make the immediate leap to "it's a company ripping people off" but did it ever occur to you that it's a simple tech glitch that a civil discussion with Apple Customer Support would easily solve? Unlike what the media and certain political parties would have you believe, most problems are simple glitches usually caused by human error, not major conspiracies to be paranoid about.

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geoffm33 said:
Not sure who is worse, you to the OP, or OP to SaraT

Sara did nothing to deserve the poor treatment she received. The OP needs to hear the plain truth from someone. I don't believe in coddling and indirectly reinforcing the bad behavior of people, especially the younger generation. There will be no "poor Johnny, you have every right to be mad and bratty at the big, bad company" from me. My parents didn't allow me to be unreasonable and entitled. More kids need to be told what's what and receive the reality check they desperately need. Notice that the OP left a long time ago when they didn't get the support they apparently expected and sought. Hopefully, they learned a lesson before they left.

geoffm33 · Oct 22, 2014

laurim said:
Notice that the OP left a long time ago when they didn't get the support they apparently expected and sought. Hopefully, they learned a lesson before they left.

Or because you questioned the OP's intelligence without knowing if English was his/her first language. Not that that would be a valid excuse to question intelligence to begin with.

I'm not condoning OP's treatment of the apple support rep btw.

laurim · Oct 22, 2014

geoffm33 said:
Or because you questioned the OP's intelligence without knowing if English was his/her first language. Not that that would be a valid excuse to question intelligence to begin with.

I'm not condoning OP's treatment of the apple support rep btw.

I considered the possibility that the OP may have been a non-english speaker but their use of "kool", lack of punctuation, common grammar mistakes and their general entitled attitude led me to believe it was just a youngster who isn't interested in schoolwork. If the OP would tell me differently, I will readily and heartily apologize. It's usually pretty obvious when someone is writing english as a second language and this didn't seem to be the case. If the OP hadn't been such a jerk, I would have let the poor writing pass. Like his poor attitude probably caused Sara to be not as super helpful as she might have been able to be. Actions have consequences.

bluespark · Oct 22, 2014

Archeus said:
You're quick to insult the OP, both in this post and your other. While your base sentiment is visible amidst the antagonism, and I understand why you are saying what you are, it seems clear to me that you are either young enough or fortunate enough to have never been shafted by the realities in our current, corporation-dominated society. Either that, or you are not smart enough to have caught the various extra charges inserted randomly and regularly into your cell phone bill, credit card statement, utility bills, etc.

It is common practice for large companies to "inadvertently" charge for products or services which they are not providing, or limit, throttle or remove services for which one may be paying. The OP's use of the word "of," in lieu of "have," and a notable lack of proper grammar or punctuation is as much a product of the world in which we live as the inconsiderate corporate practices which led to this situation in the first place are.

I am a supporter of Apple. My first computer was an Apple II+. I have been an early adopter of nearly every innovative product and technology that Apple has released over the past 30 years or so. One thing is true, though. They are just as greedy and unconcerned about their consumers as any other mega-corporation. When I bought my first e-reader I was able to download newly released books for a fraction of what the cost of the hardcover was. And, that's the way it should be. Lower material and labor costs should equal a lower cost to the consumer. Once Apple got into the ebooks business everything changed. I often pay more for an ebook now than I would have to if I went to the bookstore and bought a physical copy. This detail is not directly relevant to the post, but it speaks to the overall culture which has led to this situation. I feel for the OP.

And to the OP. While I feel your frustration, it is important to remember that a tier one support person will almost never be able to solve a major issue. try to remain pleasant while expressing your displeasure, and ask for a supervisor. It is worth noting that at this level the "supervisor" will also likely be of little help, but you must follow the chain authority. take notes of the names of those with whom you have spoken, and the dates of your phone calls. When you are communicating via chat then save your transcript.

Eventually, and sometimes right away, one of the people that you are speaking with will tell you that there is nothing that they can do for you, and they are the boss. They are the top of the ladder, and they are sorry, but this is the policy. They are also just telling you what they have been instructed to tell you. My question to them is usually "So YOU are the top?" to which they respond yes, and I follow with "so YOU sign the paychecks for the entire company?" to which they become flustered and hesitate before indicating that they do not. Every once in a great while they will hang up on you, but that's okay because you have already taken down their name, so you know who to mention in your next complaint.

If you are persistent and remain pleasant throughout your communications you will likely, EVENTUALLY, reach a satisfactory resolution. Hopefully before more time has been invested than what it's worth. Good luck to you.

You must be joking. The OP accepted the iTunes service agreement and didn't bother to download the movies he purchased. If he had, he would have them. Apple has no obligation to make the movies available to him indefinitely in the cloud, and they spell that out with full transparency. If he assumed he was purchasing some type of online storage guarantee in addition to the movie, he was simply wrong.

2010mini · Oct 22, 2014

OP,

How come you didn't contact the distributor of the movie you lost to get another copy?

You do have proof that you bought the movie from iTunes that they pulled the license from Apple to distribute. Maybe they can give you another code to redeem it once again???

brentsg · Oct 22, 2014

2010mini said:
OP,

How come you didn't contact the distributor of the movie you lost to get another copy?

You do have proof that you bought the movie from iTunes that they pulled the license from Apple to distribute. Maybe they can give you another code to redeem it once again???

Because he would have been irate with them within 20 seconds and they would have told him there's nothing they can do.

pheenix11 · Oct 23, 2014

Duh, download the movies.

flyinmac · Oct 23, 2014

orestes1984 said:
maybe if the original poster didn't act like a petulant child they would have had more luck.

Exactly... If I were Sara, I would have had a strange connection issue pretty quickly that "accidentally" caused my machine to lose contact with the unreasonable attitude on the other end.

Pretty easy... oops, my Ethernet cable fell out, let me plug that back in. Hmm... Where'd that jerk go... oh well... next...

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pheenix11 said:
Duh, download the movies.

Exactly... I let my Apple TV stream from my iTunes library on the Mac. And, I do my purchasing from the Mac in iTunes also. The Apple TV has no storage option.

Now, if the Apple TV would download my purchases and send them to my Mac after purchase, then I'd buy using the Apple TV.

But, the original poster could have simply gone into iTunes on his computer, and downloaded his purchases later (like soon after purchasing) for archival. Just tell iTunes to download all.

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bluespark said:
You must be joking. The OP accepted the iTunes service agreement and didn't bother to download the movies he purchased. If he had, he would have them. Apple has no obligation to make the movies available to him indefinitely in the cloud, and they spell that out with full transparency. If he assumed he was purchasing some type of online storage guarantee in addition to the movie, he was simply wrong.

Any fool with a brain knows that technology changes. Nobody can count on any service that's available today (especially web services) to still be available 10 years from now. In all likeliness, iTunes will be a foreign unknown word to youngsters 10 years from now... If you want to keep something available, store it locally.

Crazy, trying to compare it to buying DVDs at local stores... hardly the same.

I can guarantee you that if he purchased his DVD's at a local store, and then sent them to someone 5000 miles away to hold onto them, that at some point in the future he's not going to be able to get them sent back to him on demand.

cardfan · Oct 23, 2014

Stupid is spending 20 dollars to "own" a movie in iTunes. In a few years there will be 4k. After that something else. I don't even buy discs anymore.

LV426 · Oct 23, 2014

Beachguy said:
One word:

Backup.

Two words:

Backup often.

That's not going to help if you want to use Apple TV for the purpose for which it is bought. You purchase a movie on Apple's cloud because you can stream it at any time you like, using Apple TV's indexing mechanism.

If it subsequently disappears from your purchases, as reported on the Apple TV, that's a business failure.

If you buy a car and wake up to find it gone, you're not going to be too happy about that if there's a bit of small print in the bill of sale that says the seller can nab it off you at any time they choose.

Although I've not experienced this personally and I have 250 purchased movies from iTunes the onus really should be on Apple to ensure that your purchases can't arbitrarily disappear (i.e. without a court order). Apple should refuse to allow such movies to be sold in the first place if the rights owner does not agree with this.

flyinmac · Oct 23, 2014

LV426 said:
That's not going to help if you want to use Apple TV for the purpose for which it is bought. You purchase a movie on Apple's cloud because you can stream it at any time you like, using Apple TV's indexing mechanism.

If it subsequently disappears from your purchases, as reported on the Apple TV, that's a business failure.

If you buy a car and wake up to find it gone, you're not going to be too happy about that if there's a bit of small print in the bill of sale that says the seller can nab it off you at any time they choose.

Although I've not experienced this personally and I have 250 purchased movies from iTunes the onus really should be on Apple to ensure that your purchases can't arbitrarily disappear (i.e. without a court order). Apple should refuse to allow such movies to be sold in the first place if the rights owner does not agree with this.

You can also stream it any time you like from your computer's hard drive using the Apple TV, and be assured that you have a permanent copy of it.

Not like you're walking around with your Apple TV in your pocket. And, having a copy on your computer's hard drive doesn't prevent you from still streaming it from Apple's Server if you choose to while it's still available from Apple.

keysofanxiety · Oct 23, 2014

i hate it when people are this rude to customer service representatives. Don't be an asshat. You'll find that a little courtesy gets you a lot more -- you'll attract more flies with honey than vinegar.

Of course, the whole 'customer is always right' mentality means people don't understand that. Normally people who haven't worked in the customer service industry before, or people who get their kicks out of patronising the people who are trying to help them.

In conclusion, the OP was needlessly rude and seems to be proud of it.

On behalf of everybody who has worked in customer service, and has encountered somebody like you, may I pass on our sincere happiness that you didn't get what you want.

keysofanxiety · Oct 23, 2014

laurim said:
I'm 50, have a degree in Chemical Engineering but now own my own multimedia design business, have an old Mensa membership card and have been using Macs since 1985. All of your assumptions (and passive/aggressive insults) about me are incorrect. From all of this experience, I know an immature jerk when I see one and can identify someone who will never have a pleasant customer service experience if they can't be civil to the person who is trying to help them. I've lived long enough to know when nice and civility will get me what I want and when I have to resort to aggressive mode when being nice hasn't worked. Over all the years I have been an Apple customer, there have been countless times when they have helped me with my issues above and beyond what they were contractually required to do so YES, I will give Apple the benefit of the doubt over the word of someone who should spend less time on Xbox and watching movies and more time on schoolwork. I don't believe for one minute Apple is "greedy" and "unconcerned" based on all they have done for me over the years. The OP needs to hear what they sound like so maybe they can learn something about how the world works and how to get what they want. Being a jerk won't cut it. Being nearly illiterate won't cut it, either, even if people like you give illiteracy a free pass for some odd reason.

Hear hear. Couldn't agree with this more.

A TV stole dollars worth of movies from my collection

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