I don't see why people say the 5k iMac is overpriced

alimoore said:

Do u think Apple will bring on a retina Cinema Display to go along with Mac Pro. Really really thought they would update the one they have.

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The consensus is that Apple could, but one of the following would need to happen for a 5k Retina Display:

1) apple invents a(nother) proprietary video cable

2) apple waits for displayport 1.3

3) apple does a hack, like bonding 2x 1.2 ports

The iMacs cuts past all these by not needing a cable. They could make a smaller 4k, but that seems a bit out of order.

ElectronGuru said:

The consensus is that Apple could, but one of the following would need to happen for a 5k Retina Display:

1) apple invents a(nother) proprietary video cable

2) apple waits for displayport 1.3

3) apple does a hack, like bonding 2x 1.2 ports

The iMacs cuts past all these by not needing a cable. They could make a smaller 4k, but that seems a bit out of order.

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Would be awesome if that could happen. Was holding out to see if apple brought something like this out- if this does happen, when can we see it?

I am genuinely curious as to how Apple managed to get pricing for those 5k panels. If we assume the typical 30% margins for Macs, plus the cost of hardware, those panels probably cost about $1k each? Or is Dell trying to rip users off?

Zellio said:

Considering the prices of regular 4k/5k devices (Not talking about China or Seiki here), and the fact that dell is coming out with a 5k monitor for $2500, it doesn't seem like a bad deal that you get a monitor and a crappy computer to go with it.

It's like buying a 2009 27" 1440p core 2 duo for nearly the same price as the Apple Cinema.....................................................

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Yeah well let me talk you out here that you said $2500 retina iMac is very cheap for what it is.

1. Can I use the 5K iMac as external display for any computer, and I mean ANY? Not just between Macs, not just between Thunderbolt, not just between OSX?

2. If something happened with a component inside, can I use the display by itself? Or do I also lose the display? I can still use a 4K monitor with my gaming PC while my laptop getting repaired. It is anonymous about which computer connected to it.

Your scenario only works if you assume people buy ONE 5K display and ONE computer of any brands or types, no more or less. In which case you might say with $2500 retina iMac I got a 5K display with free Mac computer thrown in. But you forgot the versatility of standalone display. It can be calibrated accurately and more easily and it can be fed by several machines simultaneously.

Plus I would think that Dell will have to re evaluate about its 5K display pricing. Thanks to Apple $2500 seems very expensive for "a mere display" while iMac gets you a complete package, despite the drawback I showed earlier.

Oracle1729 said:

Any $1000 PC will out spec the top-end $4000 iMac in every way.

So Dell Ultrasharp 5k 27" for $2500 is good. iMac Retina for $2500 is rip-off garbage for idiots and suckers who can't think more than 2 days into the future.

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Let's see:

• Intel Core i7 4790k 4.0GHz = $340
• Any motherboard with Thunderbolt 2, 802.11ac, BTLE = $250+
• 1TB of PCI-express SSD = $800
• 32GB of DDR3-1600 RAM = $320
• AMD R9 280X (performance equivalent to M295X) = $260
• Apple mouse + keyboard = $138
• Nice aluminum case with PSU = $250+

That's $2400 already, with no 5K monitor, no speakers, no webcam, no OS and no value given to the elegant form factor which needs more miniaturized parts like the mobile GPU. So no, a $1000 PC will not out-spec a $4000 iMac, not even close.

And your general point doesn't take into account the fact Macs have an incredible resale value. You don't just throw away your iMac when it becomes slow after a few years and you buy a new one. You sell it for a really good price, so it's the total cost of ownership that should be measured.

Yes, good points. A $4k home-built computer might be expected to fetch $2k second-hand after a year. I'd be imagining the retina 5k to take more like three years to halve in value.

pgiguere1 said:

Let's see:

• Intel Core i7 4790k 4.0GHz = $340
• Any motherboard with Thunderbolt 2, 802.11ac, BTLE = $250+
• 1TB of PCI-express SSD = $800
• 32GB of DDR3-1600 RAM = $320
• AMD R9 280X (performance equivalent to M295X) = $260
• Apple mouse + keyboard = $138
• Nice aluminum case with PSU = $250+

That's $2400 already, with no 5K monitor, no speakers, no webcam, no OS and no value given to the elegant form factor which needs more miniaturized parts like the mobile GPU. So no, a $1000 PC will not out-spec a $4000 iMac, not even close.

And your general point doesn't take into account the fact Macs have an incredible resale value. You don't just throw away your iMac when it becomes slow after a few years and you buy a new one. You sell it for a really good price, so it's the total cost of ownership that should be measured.

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I think that the things "PC-people" say is that even if buying-prices are good-value for Apple products, they are non-upgradeable, meaning those 2400$ for an iMac will not be able to be upgraded. With a PC, you can just upgrade the GPU when needed, for example.

Generally, when I've talked to PC-enthusiasts, that's at least the response I get, that PCs are just more "configurable" - which is great I guess if you value that.

Zellio said:

and the fact that dell is coming out with a 5k monitor for $2500,

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Until that Dell monitor is actually out (at which point we'll find out for sure how it connects, what graphics cards actually support it and what the actual retail price will be) then the iMac5k is the only available 5k display.

Until there is some competition, talking about "overpriced" is meaningless.

My only real complaint is the cost of the SSD options & difficulty of upgrading later when SSD prices drop. If I was buying a sealed all-in-one computer, I'd like to make it a spinning-rust-free-zone.

Oracle1729 said:

If I drop a few grand on a monitor, I don't want it stuck to a 2013 Haswell CPU. $2500 might be a bargain for the monitor alone, but it's a ripoff for the iMac using that monitor.

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That's how I'd have felt in the past - back in the days of the Megahertz Wars when a top-of-the-range computer was a doorstop after 18 months. However, my 2006 Mac Pro lasted me 5 years (and is still useful to have) and my current MBP is in its 4th year and still feels pretty fast. So, I'd be fairly confident that an iMac5k will still have utility and resale value 4-5 years down the line (by which time, unless the cockroaches have taken over, we may all be lusting after wrap-around 16k screens).

pgiguere1 said:

Let's see:

• Intel Core i7 4790k 4.0GHz = $340
• Any motherboard with Thunderbolt 2, 802.11ac, BTLE = $250+
• 1TB of PCI-express SSD = $800
• 32GB of DDR3-1600 RAM = $320
• AMD R9 280X (performance equivalent to M295X) = $260
• Apple mouse + keyboard = $138
• Nice aluminum case with PSU = $250+

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I think this illustrates the point about Apple - its not so much "overpriced" as "limited choice". If you value the slim design, 5k display, Thunderbolt, 802.11ac, BTLE, keyboard, mouse etc. of the iMac then totting up the cost of parts for a PC of comparable power is pretty irrelevant, because its never going to add up to an iMac.

The thing about the build-your-own PC route is choice. For example, I wouldn't bother with Thunderbolt on a PC, I wouldn't be worried about 802.11ac or BTLE on a desktop machine (I'd use wired ethernet and a Logitech wireless dongle for kb/mouse). I'd also slum it and save money by using a SATA 3 SSD instead of PCIe - in fact, I'd probably slap in a 256GB or 512GB SSD + 2TB HDD in the knowledge that I could go all-SSD in a year or two when prices have dropped.

...which would shave a few hundred of dollars off the cost but, of course, the result wouldn't be remotely "comparable" with an iMac 5k.

(Its the same with the new Mac Pro: if you value the small form factor and need a Xeon and run OpenCL software that can exploit the dual GPUs then its a steal. If you just need an i7 and a decent gaming GPU then its a waste of money.)

Tanax said:

I think that the things "PC-people" say is that even if buying-prices are good-value for Apple products, they are non-upgradeable, meaning those 2400$ for an iMac will not be able to be upgraded. With a PC, you can just upgrade the GPU when needed, for example.

Generally, when I've talked to PC-enthusiasts, that's at least the response I get, that PCs are just more "configurable" - which is great I guess if you value that.

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Well and that is why people who are especially budget conscious (which is a good thing) like PCs because you can swap things out. The thing is that the same is not true of Windows-based PC laptops. The reason I switched to Apple was because I was tired of high end PC laptops which were crap and fell apart in 2 years. We kind of solved this problem with my husband and got him a Sager (which I'd recommend for anyone looking for a Windows based laptop). Laptops though have the same thing where they aren't as configurable but you can often replace the hard drive, sometimes the video card and the memory.

The reason I'm staying with Apple and going with an iMac is that it is a clean design, I value the lack of clutter. After using laptops for the last... 14 years or so, the last thing I want is a tower. I also value OSX and I don't want to go back to Windows. I also figure if I want to upgrade in a few years, rather than upgrading components, I'll sell my iMac used and buy another iMac. Problem solved.

leenak said:

The reason I'm staying with Apple and going with an iMac is that it is a clean design, I value the lack of clutter. After using laptops for the last... 14 years or so, the last thing I want is a tower. I also value OSX and I don't want to go back to Windows. I also figure if I want to upgrade in a few years, rather than upgrading components, I'll sell my iMac used and buy another iMac. Problem solved.

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I agree with you about a clean design. Which is where a mac loses. A nice sleek box with cables running to a couple of external hard drives, an ethernet dongle, a DVD burner. Or one nice big box with everything inside and few cables.

I used to tell people "upgrading" a mac meant selling and buying a new one and that was a good thing because they held their value so well it was cheaper than upgrading a PC. The secondary mac market was kept up by people who would buy used and max out the ram and update the HDD. Once these new soldered-down macs start flooding the market, see what happens to your resale values.

I valued OSX too, but with nothing new except iToys integration and an ugly new Jony GUI, windows 10 looks pretty good.

alimoore said:

Would be awesome if that could happen. Was holding out to see if apple brought something like this out- if this does happen, when can we see it?

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Don't have special info, but basically the premium 4k panels will need to be cheaper than 5k enough for the smaller imac to cost less than the big one.

Abazigal said:

I am genuinely curious as to how Apple managed to get pricing for those 5k panels. If we assume the typical 30% margins for Macs, plus the cost of hardware, those panels probably cost about $1k each? Or is Dell trying to rip users off?

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Don't know about dell, but this is a normal iMac cycle. Most tech and most tech companies have sloping prices, with changes every month or even every week. Apple has flat prices. The result is that apples total aio prices are better when big changes hit and worse when they are approaching EOL. It happened when the 2560 first hit and it's happening know. But yes, it still feels weird, apple isn't supposed to be cheaper.

Zellio said:

Yeah I agree, I made this post assuming that you could use the 5k display as an external display.

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The next model should have displayport 1.3 and be able to accept a 5k video signal.

Oracle1729 said:

I agree with you about a clean design. Which is where a mac loses. A nice sleek box with cables running to a couple of external hard drives, an ethernet dongle, a DVD burner. Or one nice big box with everything inside and few cables.

I used to tell people "upgrading" a mac meant selling and buying a new one and that was a good thing because they held their value so well it was cheaper than upgrading a PC. The secondary mac market was kept up by people who would buy used and max out the ram and update the HDD. Once these new soldered-down macs start flooding the market, see what happens to your resale values.

I valued OSX too, but with nothing new except iToys integration and an ugly new Jony GUI, windows 10 looks pretty good.

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I haven't used an external hard drive... ever. I haven't used ethernet in 10 years? I haven't used a DVD drive in 10 years?

I use Windows for work, I like OSX better. I like the new cloud drive, I like iCloud, I like being able to get text messages on my computer or iPad. I like having a unix terminal to work with and I like the variety of applications I've already bought and plan to buy for OSX. I was seriously set on buying a Windows laptop sometime next year (I don't do desktops really, the iMac will be my first in a long time). The reason was due to some games I like that are Windows only and my distaste for booting into Windows. Then lately I had a change of heart and decided I'm sticking with OSX so then I started looking at options because I needed more screen real estate than my 15" rMBP was offering. So I'm buying an iMac.

Oracle1729 said:

I agree with you about a clean design. Which is where a mac loses. A nice sleek box with cables running to a couple of external hard drives, an ethernet dongle, a DVD burner. Or one nice big box with everything inside and few cables.

I used to tell people "upgrading" a mac meant selling and buying a new one and that was a good thing because they held their value so well it was cheaper than upgrading a PC. The secondary mac market was kept up by people who would buy used and max out the ram and update the HDD. Once these new soldered-down macs start flooding the market, see what happens to your resale values.

I valued OSX too, but with nothing new except iToys integration and an ugly new Jony GUI, windows 10 looks pretty good.

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For now that's more a 21.5" problem...though upgrading the cpu in the 27" isn't exactly a walk in the park either..and at that point you might as well upgrade everything since it is disassembled already.

ElectronGuru said:

Don't have special info, but basically the premium 4k panels will need to be cheaper than 5k enough for the smaller imac to cost less than the big one.




Don't know about dell, but this is a normal iMac cycle. Most tech and most tech companies have sloping prices, with changes every month or even every week. Apple has flat prices. The result is that apples total aio prices are better when big changes hit and worse when they are approaching EOL. It happened when the 2560 first hit and it's happening know. But yes, it still feels weird, apple isn't supposed to be cheaper.




The next model should have displayport 1.3 and be able to accept a 5k video signal.

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isn't that similar to when the major consoles are released? Though unlike sony/msoft I doubt apple takes a loss on these..just extremely slim margins for probably this and the next year. Due to their size I'm sure the contracts are extremely favorable for apple and they still realize that it couldn't be released for $3499 or the like and still sell well.

Oracle1729 said:

I agree with you about a clean design. Which is where a mac loses. A nice sleek box with cables running to a couple of external hard drives, an ethernet dongle, a DVD burner. Or one nice big box with everything inside and few cables.



I used to tell people "upgrading" a mac meant selling and buying a new one and that was a good thing because they held their value so well it was cheaper than upgrading a PC. The secondary mac market was kept up by people who would buy used and max out the ram and update the HDD. Once these new soldered-down macs start flooding the market, see what happens to your resale values.



I valued OSX too, but with nothing new except iToys integration and an ugly new Jony GUI, windows 10 looks pretty good.

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I've got a pretty clean look with my 27 imac. Have a twelve south hi rise and shelf which hides external drives and other drives if need be. Only the power and Ethernet show and really Ethernet is just preference.

I don't think it's overpriced. It's just really expensive

hyune83 said:

I don't think it's overpriced. It's just really expensive

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Yep. That sums it up for me.

I think it's a pretty sweet system, my only beef is the GPU. Ugh. They should have used the new nVidia 9xx series.

Maybe it will get a refresh next year with Broadwell and nVidia. That would be amazing.

As for no screen sharing with other devices, I wonder if it could be hacked somehow to allow for that.

lcseds said:

Yep. That sums it up for me.

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Yaboze said:

I think it's a pretty sweet system, my only beef is the GPU. Ugh. They should have used the new nVidia 9xx series.

Maybe it will get a refresh next year with Broadwell and nVidia. That would be amazing.

As for no screen sharing with other devices, I wonder if it could be hacked somehow to allow for that.

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lcseds- love your sig lol

I'm still not convinced that nVidia is definitely better, until we have actual retina imac tests, which would need to be run in both osx and bootcamp vs the 980m to get a true 1 to 1 test. From the owners tests run here so far it seems to perform quite well.

Zellio said:

Considering the prices of regular 4k/5k devices (Not talking about China or Seiki here), and the fact that dell is coming out with a 5k monitor for $2500, it doesn't seem like a bad deal that you get a monitor and a crappy computer to go with it.

It's like buying a 2009 27" 1440p core 2 duo for nearly the same price as the Apple Cinema.....................................................

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WHO are these "people" that said it was overpriced? Its a steal.

I'm using one right now. Its unbelievable.

You guys are wasting your time with that troll who thinks everyone else is an idiot but himself.

The dell monitor will split the signal into two different display ports, this is unreliable and will be quickly outdated when display port 1.3 comes out.

Also, yeah the iMac isnt upgradeable but it's out with a bleeding edge gfx card which may or may not be good, but we won't know until we get some proper windows drivers for it. Processor wise, it has the option of getting the fastest single threading processor in existence which is good enough for most of us.

I use to get desktops because of upgradeability but I still used the 2500k because nothing was worth the upgrade. Even to this day. I overclocked it to 4.0 ghz just like I did the e8400 before that. Just seeing the i7 with 4.0 stock is crazy.


That being said, I believe the OP is talking about most reviews. They all list the pricing as a con.