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AppleHater

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2010
788
104
It's going to further cannabolize the point and shoot camera market, but you'll be delusional if you think these sensors will compete with DSLR sensors.
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Oct 11, 2012
3,580
4,006
Undisclosed location
Thought Sony has this in their Xperia Z3...
Now they are focusing on becoming a supplier instead of bleeding cash in their smartphone department...?
 

Col4bin

macrumors 68000
Oct 2, 2011
1,895
1,587
El Segundo
Please mark your post as irony.

If it isn't and you really believe what you say, please to some read up about how image sensors work

Apreciate your thoughtfulness, but please go back and re-read my original post: "Yes it's better than before (iP6 camera), but still takes crappy low-light and blurry moving object photos."

This is fact. Apple's iPhone 6 "image sensors" as you put it still take crapy low light photos and blurry moving object photos.

Other mobile phone manufacturer's of late are doing a better job with implementing better tech into their mobile phone cameras and "image sensors". So what's the debate here?

----------

Please explain to me, how exactly would increasing megapixel count to 12 solve those issues? Every phone camera will take a blurry shot of a moving object, UNLESS! picture is taken in good light (so the exposure time can be pretty short (1/500 s or less)), OR the picture is taken using xenon flash (which practically no phone uses) which gives plenty of light for the exposure time to still be very low.
You can obviously manually set exposure time to be relatively low even in bad light, but you'll most likely end up with underexposed or noisy image.

Please find me camera phone which takes better low light photos than iPhone 6 (and especially 6 Plus). All the reviews found that it's the best mobile phone camera out there (including low light).

EDIT: If your post was sarcastic, next time please use :rolleyes: as it is very hard lately to distinguish between smart (sarcasm) and stupidity and ignorance.:D

Sorry for the hurt feelings. How's this: :eek:;):eek::D:) Better?

There's a bunch of phone cameras that take better low-light photography. And remember, the iPhone 6+ has the better sensor than the plain 6 (which I am referring to in my OP). http://www.phonearena.com/news/Best-smartphones-for-low-light-photography_id61145
 
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rGiskard

macrumors 68000
Aug 9, 2012
1,800
955
EDIT: Ok, did some research and at first glance it doesn't appear that this is the same type of technology, which is quite unfortunate as I've been waiting to see some advances on this front. What I'm talking about is a Foveon-type sensor. Canon recently had a patent to improve the design. This is a cross section that gives you some insight into what I had previously written below:

Image

Previous post below…


I'm not sure about what Sony's definition of "stacked sensor" design means, but from what I've read about it in general and particularly regarding potential upcoming sensors from Canon, you can pretty much throw what you know about more megapixels in a small sensor = worse quality out the window. Well, that's not entirely true, but it is to a certain extent. Let me explain.

From what I understand, you usually need three photo receptors to capture each of the red, green, and blue colors. These take up space on the sensor in two dimensions. The stacked sensor design utilizes three dimensions. Each photo receptor detects the level of red, green, and blue values depending on how far each wavelength of light penetrates through the various filters vertically into the chip. Thus you can get around three times the resolution because you have three times the surface area now without necessarily reducing image quality.

So, in theory, a 21 megapixel stacked sensor with the same dimensions as the current iPhone 6 sensor could actually have better image quality because tripling the current 8 megapixels gives you 24 megapixels, and the new design is 21 megapixels stacked, so more similar to a 7MP sensor pixel pitch. So there would be less photoreceptors per square milimeter, thus potentially reducing noise and other factors. POTENTIALLY. It all depends on the specifics of the stacked design and whether or not the interference between stacked receptors is worse, the same, or better than a standard array of receptors.

Thanks for such a great explanation of the design. If Apple can nearly triple the MPs while keeping the same pixel pitch, that will be worth the upgrade to a 6S.

I'm stoked. :cool:
 

Moonjumper

macrumors 68030
Jun 20, 2009
2,740
2,908
Lincoln, UK
That assumes that noise is some sort inaccuracy, which only some of it is.
Image noise comes predominately not from inaccurate measurement (read noise) but from too-low-a-sample noise (photon shot noise). Photons arrive in a random manner, like raindrops arrive in a random manner. If you try to measure the amount of rain and you only collect only about 30 raindrops in each go, you won't measure the same amount if you move the bucket by half a meter, because sometimes it might be only 22 and sometimes 37 drops that fall within a given time interval into your sample bucket.

That was my point. Small areas don't have enough photons hitting to be accurate.
 

macduke

macrumors G5
Jun 27, 2007
13,172
19,747
Thanks for such a great explanation of the design. If Apple can nearly triple the MPs while keeping the same pixel pitch, that will be worth the upgrade to a 6S.

I'm stoked. :cool:

Not sure if you saw my edit, but it doesn't appear that this sensor is the same design as Sony is using. However, we may one day see this type of sensor in a future iPhone. It does seem possible through innovations in sensor tech to improve the megapixel count without reducing the image quality/noise.
 

Glassed Silver

macrumors 68020
Mar 10, 2007
2,096
2,567
Kassel, Germany
Where does this come from? Not that long ago people were using single digit MP DSLRs to make poster size prints. What are you cropping? A single grain of sand from a photo of a beach? This sounds like CSI level megacrop.

The reason smartphone photos don't crop well isn't the MP, it's the lack of fine detail due to the strained optics.

I'm not talking about the quality of a crop, I'm talking about the resolution of a crop.
If I want to fill an a 3MP area with a crop that's equivalent to a decent "zoom level" the quality is a factor for how the results look like and how the image would upscale, if I so chose to. (digital zoom basically)
I still need to fill that area with pixels though.
The more pixels my original image has at reasonable quality the more I'm able to crop and still have a nicely sized image.

This is true for any kind of camera.

It's true that you don't want blurry resolutions though, just to have more MP without more actual quality, for that aspect please also refer to the post of mine I quoted down below:

Funny people's still talking about MP, or any photo attributes, as a stand-alone quality these days. Matter to who? Does iPhone tiny len can resolve 21 M. resolution?

I don't, please refer to this post of mine:

That is true, but let's just consider that Apple wouldn't put something in there where the end result at same resolution were of lesser quality than before.

I just find it really annoying that people categorically say they don't want more MP at all, like it's a fundamentally bad thing in itself.

Glassed Silver:mac

Glassed Silver:mac
 

downpour

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2009
525
317
I would disagree that 16 GB makes a modern smart phone usage virtually impossible. Using many modern apps to do all the normal things like email, text messaging, Facebook, Phone calls:), some casual video and audio recording as well as more sophisticated things like streaming video surveillance, 16 GB is plenty of storage.
As long as you're not trying to hold your entire music library or TV shows or movies and don't load up with a large storage games or other large storage activities, 16 GB is fine.
It really just depends on how you use your phone. A lot of people don't require the things that take lots of storage.

I occasionally take photos and video, but they accumulate over time and I want access to them. I have no music and a couple of small apps. My phone is full and I've run out of Apps to delete to make more room.

If I upgrade my phone, and kept the same storage, that would instantly be full too as everything would copy across.

By contrast I have 512GB in my Macbook and that is also nearly full, again this is mostly just my iPhoto library.

16GB was OK back when nobody had taken any photos on their new iPhones and Apps didn't include lots of retina resolution assets (some need 2-3GB of space to install). However, it's now nearly 2015 and we expect to be able to use a reasonable amount of the phone's features without running out of space.

Memory is cheap and Apple have a lot of money. It's time they stopped ripping people off with upgrade prices that don't reflect manufacturing costs.
 

fertilized-egg

macrumors 68020
Dec 18, 2009
2,109
57
Memory is cheap and Apple have a lot of money. It's time they stopped ripping people off with upgrade prices that don't reflect manufacturing costs.

It's very disappointing and it's one practice I really want to tell Tim Cook to stop since it's a real drag on the user experience but they cannot cannot give up such easy way to pad the margin.
 

gavroche

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2007
1,454
1,571
Left Coast
My 1520 takes pictures of less than 6mb at 19 megapixels. And they look amazing.

Guess that would depend entirely on what compression algorithm the camera uses. The different camera makers use different algorithms, for the most part. Some try harder than others to compress it into smaller file sizes... at a cost in detail (which you probably couldn't notice unless you tried real hard to find it).
You can also select quality in the menu (low/medium/high) and picture size (small/medium/large). Again, depends entirely on the camera. I would assume that in most smart phones... you have a lot less options in terms of picture settings than you do in a point and shoot. I think most all phones are getting pretty damn good now a days.
 
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