Mac Mini Worth It?

BeK · Nov 23, 2014

corvus32 said:
I'm asking, 2-3 years down the road, which would you rather have?

4690K + GTX 970 or i5-4278U?

It's 2016. Forget Broadwell. Forget Skylake. Intel has released Skymont. 4K video is everywhere - even the new iPhone. Is everyone going to still be happy with a mediocre dual core CPU from 2014? What about the Mini's integrated graphics? RAM?

As long as the Mac software is optimized to take advantage of the older hardware and can keep my system running smooth for the type of work I want to do then I'm fine with it.
It's not all about the hardware but also about how well the software is optimized on that said hardware.
I have hear for years from Android fanboys that the iPhone was years behind the curve regarding hardware yet iOS and it's so called "outdated hardware" has offered me the most stable experience regarding a mobile operating system and I have owned Android, Blackberry, and Windows based smartphones yet none compare to the so-called "behind the curve" iPhone in terms of reliability.
I want to experience that same reliability with my desktop and this is why I want a Mac.
Thank you again for your input but I have no desire to own a PC any longer for normal everyday task.
My PC will be for gaming and gaming only.

crazzapple · Nov 23, 2014

BeKure said:
As long as the Mac software is optimized to take advantage of the older hardware and can keep my system running smooth for the type of work I want to do then I'm fine with it.
It's not all about the hardware but also about how well the software is optimized on that said hardware.
I have hear for years from Android fanboys that the iPhone was years behind the curve regarding hardware yet iOS and it's so called "outdated hardware" has offered me the most stable experience regarding a mobile operating system and I have owned Android, Blackberry, and Windows based smartphones yet none compare to the so-called "behind the curve" iPhone in terms of reliability.
I want to experience that same reliability with my desktop and this is why I want a Mac.
Thank you again for your input but I have no desire to own a PC any longer for normal everyday task.
My PC will be for gaming and gaming only.

When apple updates osx every year they are not optimizing for older hardware. They add features and more and more bloat. Older hardware will run slower and slower on the latest osx version. Of course it depends on the type of work you are doing whether it will be acceptable to you.

You see the same thing with iOS... people complaining their older phones and ipads are slow to the point of being almost unusable. That is where they make their money: people upgrading their idevice every couple years.

BeK · Nov 23, 2014

crazzapple said:
When apple updates osx every year they are not optimizing for older hardware. They add features and more and more bloat. Older hardware will run slower and slower on the latest osx version. Of course it depends on the type of work you are doing whether it will be acceptable to you.

You see the same thing with iOS... people complaining their older phones and ipads are slow to the point of being almost unusable. That is where they make their money: people upgrading their idevice every couple years.

I guess I have to just take a chance with OXS and see if it's worth it to me. When I made the jump to iOS it was more than worth it and I don't miss my android device one bit.
Thank you again for your feedback.

newellj · Nov 23, 2014

BeKure said:
I guess I have to just take a chance with OXS and see if it's worth it to me. When I made the jump to iOS it was more than worth it and I don't miss my android device one bit.
Thank you again for your feedback.

It's hard to say, but I think you'll be fine. You seem to understand what you want from the project and the limitations of the hardware. And, as several people pointed out, the resale value on used Apple hardware is quite high, so if you change your mind or the hardware runs out of legs, you should be able to get a good bit of your investment back.

By the way, there aren't that many programs that really need or can use a quad core processor. Most users are going to be very happy with a dual core CPU and will never notice the difference. Thinking of resale value again, the 2012 Mini may hold its value better than the 2014s, since the 2012s are the last models with user-replaceable RAM and the option for two conventional SATA interface drives. I don't think the 2012s are actually better machines than the 2014s, but I think those two attributes will keep them in strong demand for quite a few years to come.

QuietGamer · Nov 23, 2014

I registered just to reply to this thread.

Like you I have a gaming PC https://pcpartpicker.com/b/VrsYcf#img=2 and after the Win 2000 debacle I bought my fist Mac (G5 iMac) thinking there has to be a better way and have not looked back for daily usage.

The machine I KVMed with was a 2011 mini 5.2 (i5 duel core/16/ Discrete GPU).

Like a lot of people I upgraded it to 16 gigs of ram but also a 500 gig 840. That is when the fun started.

While dissecting the Mini the cooling fan header broke off the MB so the cooler was useless. It has been sitting on top of a laptop cooler for the close to 4 years. It worked OK but was noisy and could get very hot.

I just changed to a top stock spec 2014 Mini. Runs fast and is a great "Mothership" for my iOS devices as I am not a fan of the cloud and prefer local storage.

My suggestion is that if you need a reliable, no drama Mini for 4 users would be the top spec Mini upgraded to 16 gigs if you feel you need it.

corvus32 · Nov 23, 2014

BeKure said:
I want to experience that same reliability with my desktop and this is why I want a Mac.

Interesting you should mention that because Apple is treating Macs and OSX more and more like iOS and iDevices with each release.

User-upgradeable RAM is gone. HDDs are almost impossible to get to. They even put a plate on the bottom of the Mini and screwed it shut to keep people out. Yearly updates to OSX now, which helps thin the herd whenever they see fit.

What it seems like they want is for people to spend $1300-$2000 on mediocre PC hardware every 2 years. Just like the way people have a two-year contract on their iPhone. If you spend less than that, you don't even get Iris Pro graphics or a quad core processor. That's ridiculous.

If that's what you want to experience.

scottsjack · Nov 23, 2014

QuietGamer said:
I registered just to reply to this thread.

Like you I have a gaming PC https://pcpartpicker.com/b/VrsYcf#img=2 and after the Win 2000 debacle I bought my fist Mac (G5 iMac) thinking there has to be a better way and have not looked back for daily usage.

The machine I KVMed with was a 2011 mini 5.2 (i5 duel core/16/ Discrete GPU).

Like a lot of people I upgraded it to 16 gigs of ram but also a 500 gig 840. That is when the fun started.

While dissecting the Mini the cooling fan header broke off the MB so the cooler was useless. It has been sitting on top of a laptop cooler for the close to 4 years. It worked OK but was noisy and could get very hot.

I just changed to a top stock spec 2014 Mini. Runs fast and is a great "Mothership" for my iOS devices as I am not a fan of the cloud and prefer local storage.

My suggestion is that if you need a reliable, no drama Mini for 4 users would be the top spec Mini upgraded to 16 gigs if you feel you need it.

Excellent advice and great hardware choice for both computers. I like the term "Mothership". In some respects that seems to be where OS X is heading and is one of the reasons why I sold my Mac Pro and now have a 2012 mini instead of something more expensive like an iMac. For powerful, user-configurable machines it is definitely a Windows World.

BeK · Nov 23, 2014

QuietGamer said:
I registered just to reply to this thread.

Like you I have a gaming PC https://pcpartpicker.com/b/VrsYcf#img=2 and after the Win 2000 debacle I bought my fist Mac (G5 iMac) thinking there has to be a better way and have not looked back for daily usage.

The machine I KVMed with was a 2011 mini 5.2 (i5 duel core/16/ Discrete GPU).

Like a lot of people I upgraded it to 16 gigs of ram but also a 500 gig 840. That is when the fun started.

While dissecting the Mini the cooling fan header broke off the MB so the cooler was useless. It has been sitting on top of a laptop cooler for the close to 4 years. It worked OK but was noisy and could get very hot.

I just changed to a top stock spec 2014 Mini. Runs fast and is a great "Mothership" for my iOS devices as I am not a fan of the cloud and prefer local storage.

My suggestion is that if you need a reliable, no drama Mini for 4 users would be the top spec Mini upgraded to 16 gigs if you feel you need it.

Thanks for the input my friend. I'm impressed that you mini lasted 4 years for you. Sounds like it was worth it. If I chose to get a top of the line Mini then I may as well get a 27" iMac ;-) It's about the same price.
You really noticed a difference with 16GB of ram in your Mini oppose to 8GB?
I'm thinking 256GB SSD should be enough for most (if not all) of the programs I would be running on the Mini. I'm not sure though being that I had never even used a Mac based computer. I would definitely couple it with a external HHD though for my media files.

BeK · Nov 23, 2014

benx1111 said:
I recommended (i7, 16gb, and 256ssd mac mini) or (iMac i5, 16gb and fusion drive) if you want good photo and video editing

Why do you recommend so much RAM though. 16GB is a awful lot for what I want to use it for. Unless you are considering the fact that I would like to get 3-4 years out of it?

----------

jji7skyline said:
Get the base model with the 8GB RAM upgrade. Why?

1. The 1.4Ghz i5 has excellent single core processing speed and turbo boosts up to 2.7Ghz. This means that when you are doing demanding stuff like video editing, the CPU will boost to this speed as long as the temperature isn't soaring. Even the 2.6Ghz upgraded i5 will throttle to lower frequencies when it gets hot, so you don't lose a lot of performance by selected the 1.4Ghz.

2. 8GB RAM is important for everyday use, and you'll feel the difference a lot more than a CPU upgrade. Newer apps use more and more RAM, and the Mac Mini cannot be upgraded to add more RAM, so it will be a good future-proofing measure.

3. 500GB is plenty of storage, especially since most of your large files such as photos and videos should be stored on external drives or possible RAID configurations for the best safety. Fusion drives aren't really worth it in my opinion.

4. You don't need gaming performance as you'll be doing that on the PC. Intel 5000 is more than enough for everyday general usage with infrequent photo/video editing.

5. Mac Minis have unbelievably low deprecation. Even if you sold it 1 year from now, you'd probably get 80-90% of your money back. No other computer is like this. Even 3 years from now, you'd probably get around 75%. In comparison, your desktop PC is probably worth at best half of what you bought it for, estimating that it is 2 years old. Therefore you can just sell it when you don't want it any more and put the money towards your next computer, which will have a much better price to performance ratio, rather than trying to 'future-proof' by adding expensive upgrades.

I hope that helps you in your decision, if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

It would have really helped to know the specifications of your PC though.

So in your opinion would the 256GB SSD not be worth it? I do plan on picking up a external HHD for my media.

thekev · Nov 23, 2014

BeKure said:
Why do you recommend so much RAM though. 16GB is a awful lot for what I want to use it for. Unless you are considering the fact that I would like to get 3-4 years out of it?

It depends what you load into them. Photo and video editing apps can cache an enormous amount of information, to the point where even a few years ago you could easily make the case for 32GB for professional users. It allowed them to run larger thumbnails, more history states, render in After Effects on more cores (AE assigns ram per core), etc. 16 might be smoother depending, but I'm not entirely sure how much of a difference you'll notice. As soon as you start to add a lot of things that must be cached, you start to soak up large amounts of memory. Otherwise it can run on very little. Some seemingly trivial things can also tie up a lot of memory. For example firefox ties up a lot of memory on OSX compared to ice weasel on debian.

BeKure said:
Thanks.
How long do you think it could meet my needs before I have to upgrade? Could I possibly get 4-5 years out of it?

Assuming you stick with the configuration you buy today, that should not be a problem. For your uses it's unlikely to feel dated any earlier than other hardware of the same generation.

corvus32 said:
I'm asking, 2-3 years down the road, which would you rather have?

4690K + GTX 970 or i5-4278U?

It's 2016. Forget Broadwell. Forget Skylake. Intel has released Skymont. 4K video is everywhere - even the new iPhone. Is everyone going to still be happy with a mediocre dual core CPU from 2014? What about the Mini's integrated graphics? RAM?

That isn't a huge concern for the things the OP mentioned. You over-estimate the demands of certain things. 8GB of ram may be tight a few years from now, but for some things it's tight today. In my experience a lot of things that were highly constrained have just become less constrained, but I haven't seen an enormous jump in the total ram that even heavier users would benefit from in recent years. It's been in the ideal realm of 8-32GB depending on usage since around 2010 at this point, depending on your tasks, and it hasn't shifted that much at either end. GPU won't be an issue compared to anything else the OP could buy today. If you're worried that Apple will release a 5K thunderbolt display and the mini won't run it, well neither will anything else of this hardware generation.

corvus32 · Nov 24, 2014

thekev said:
GPU won't be an issue compared to anything else the OP could buy today.

Macs, yes. They all have crappy GPUs - even $2000 iMacs compared to $1000 PC.

If you're worried that Apple will release a 5K thunderbolt display and the mini won't run it, well neither will anything else of this hardware generation.

I wouldn't even consider buying an overpriced Apple 5K display.

There are plenty of 4K displays to choose from right now under $800, and yes this hardware generation does run them. Although no current Mac can run them at 60Hz. But, ta da!, the next Mini just might. Buy, sell, buy, sell, rinse, repeat.

Prices will fall, and even graphically simple games like Minecraft can already be ran in 4K. So, 4K and other higher resolutions (like 1440p) will be much more common in just a year or two from now. Remember my advice was to build a 4690k + GTX 970 computer for $1200 and let the family use the older PC.

nixiemaiden · Nov 24, 2014

I don't see any available now but a few months before the new Mac Mini's were released, I picked up a refurbished quad core i7 with a 1 tb hard drive and 4GB ram for a pretty good deal.

I bought a 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM and was easily able to upgrade everything myself. It is an AWESOME little machine. After finding out that the new mac mini's are not user friendly as far as upgrading goes, I don't regret my purchase at all. The entire machine including upgrades came in at under 1k and will last me for a very long time.

thekev · Nov 24, 2014

corvus32 said:
Macs, yes. They all have crappy GPUs - even $2000 iMacs compared to $1000 PC.

That is true, but I don't think it matters that much here. In the case of a custom build, I would suggest going for some savings in that area unless the OP is aware of what software would be improved by it.

corvus32 said:
I wouldn't even consider buying an overpriced Apple 5K display.

I wouldn't either, but the response wasn't about me.

corvus32 said:
I wouldn't even consider buying an overpriced Apple 5K display.

There are plenty of 4K displays to choose from right now under $800, and yes this hardware generation does run them. Although no current Mac can run them at 60Hz. But, ta da!, the next Mini just might. Buy, sell, buy, sell, rinse, repeat.

Prices will fall, and even graphically simple games like Minecraft can already be ran in 4K. So, 4K and other higher resolutions (like 1440p) will be much more common in just a year or two from now. Remember my advice was to build a 4690k + GTX 970 computer for $1200 and let the family use the older PC.

The current mini has the underlying hardware capability to run them at 60Hz, assuming a 60Hz display. The Iris 5200 should have the appropriate driver support, and the current mini has thunderbolt 2, which supports displayport 1.2. I'm a little more skeptical than you that 4K will suddenly blow up for a few reasons. One is that stationary displays are a very slow moving product compared to a few years ago. Manufacturers like to share as much work between low margin displays and televisions as possible, but televisions have yet to see a strong push in that direction.

I responded on the basis that he had already decided to go with a Mac. If the idea was to build a PC for that set of uses, I would have suggested something less expensive than the GTX 970, as he won't get much out of it. If he was editing in Premiere or something, there are supported cards that offer considerably faster playback, but he sounded more like a hobbyist. It's possible that none of his software can leverage the gpu in a really meaningful way outside of benchmarking the number of filters that can be rendered in less than a minute.

QuietGamer · Nov 24, 2014

BeKure said:
Thanks for the input my friend. I'm impressed that you mini lasted 4 years for you. Sounds like it was worth it. If I chose to get a top of the line Mini then I may as well get a 27" iMac ;-) It's about the same price.
You really noticed a difference with 16GB of ram in your Mini oppose to 8GB?
I'm thinking 256GB SSD should be enough for most (if not all) of the programs I would be running on the Mini. I'm not sure though being that I had never even used a Mac based computer. I would definitely couple it with a external HHD though for my media files.

Yes I imagine a top spec mini would be over the intended budget of $1000-1200.

I guess I should have included the phase top STOCK spec ($999) or one upgraded to 16 gig of ram ($1199) if it will help you sleep better at night.

My thought on the ram issue was that while I would like to have 16 installed, the 8 will suffice as it caches (paged in & out or swaped / Mac speak ) to a PCI SSD so theoretically should not be much of a performance hit. I have swapped 3MB so far.

I have not noticed any performance difference yet between the 8 and 16 as I have only had it for a few days.

Since I have only used SSDs for a few years now I was a little concerned about the fusion drive ( an SSD paired with a spinning rust hard drive) but so far it has performed well. My fall back position was and is to change the HD to an 1TB SSD should it not meet expectations. The local Microcenter will do it for $60 which is cheap insurance considering what I put up with in the past.

I hope you enjoy whatever you choose to go with and OS X treats you well.

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