Apple's Culture is actually not that creative.

Wild-Bill · Nov 28, 2014

Maybe Apple will turn the corner once they can comfortably house the bulk of their employees in the spaceship campus, rather than have them spread across different campuses in Cupertino.

As it stands now, I think they are too big for their own good. And Steve didn't care about the stock price. They need to get back to that.

grahamperrin · Nov 28, 2014

maflynn said:
What about the Apple Watch?

Too early to say.

At least part of the combination of hardware and software is not as innovative as most people imagined around the time of Apple's announcement.

Wild-Bill said:
As it stands now, I think they are too big for their own good.

+1

Meister · Nov 28, 2014

maflynn said:
So far they've not had problems with creativity, but now that Steve's been gone for several years the proof will be in the pudding regarding any new products.

Steve was the reason for :apple:

s rather rigid approach to everything. He imposed his (great) visions on them and the customers. He revolutionized how we use electronics.

This approach however only works if you have a true visionary on top.
Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs and as bad as it might seem I think eventually :apple:

is doomed without Steve. I just hope they can keep going for another few years.

smallcoffee · Nov 28, 2014

Meister said:
Steve was the reason for s rather rigid approach to everything. He imposed his (great) visions on them and the customers. He revolutionized how we use electronics.

This approach however only works if you have a true visionary on top.
Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs and as bad as it might seem I think eventually is doomed without Steve. I just hope they can keep going for another few years.

Well, if they release an iPhone for the next few years I think they'll be in business.

I don't understand this doom and gloom stuff.

Ulenspiegel · Nov 28, 2014

maflynn said:
You consider the nMP a face lift of the old Mac Pro? What about the Apple Watch?

1. Yes.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/4-reasons-buy-non-retina-macbook-pro-3532793/
http://www.imore.com/why-heck-would-anyone-buy-non-retina-macbook-pro-well and so on and so forth...

2. Apple Watch (2015) ⟺ Pebble (launched 2013), Samsung Galaxy Gear (launched 2013), Sony SmartWatch (launched 2013).

----------

grahamperrin said:
Thank you. What about software products?

What about the producer's culture?

Software. Bon, la même chose, like producer's culture. Touché.

iososx · Nov 28, 2014

Traverse said:
I was doing a report on various businesses' cultures for a management project and I came across an interesting article with views from past Apple employees.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what...panys-internal-corporate-culture-2013-10?op=1

I'm not particularly surprised, but Apple is very strict and very one sided. After researching Google's atmosphere, Apple seemed like a boring and rough place to work. Other sources seemed to back this up. I'm not really surprised though.

Curious what you all think.

While very successful financially, Apple is indeed a very difficult place to work. First hand experiences of many close friends whom I grew up and went to college with tell me about their years at Apple. Some left five years ago, some quit this year, most being highly skilled engineers they moved easily within the tech rich Silicon Valley to new jobs.

We all grew up just a few miles from Apple, went to M.I.T. for our Masters and returned to work in tech.

Innovative? That's a more complex question, I'll keep my opinion to myself. Bottom line a company needs lots of resources, Apple's as most of you know are endless.

Ulenspiegel · Nov 28, 2014

iososx said:
Innovative? That's a more complex question, I'll keep my opinion to myself. Bottom line a company needs lots of resources, Apple's as most of you know are endless.

I hear you and agree with you wholeheartedly.

Meister · Nov 28, 2014

smallcoffee said:
I don't understand this doom and gloom stuff.

That just means you do not understand how giant companies like this work.

Years ago, after Steve left, :apple:

went down. He went into other groundbreaking things, like Pixar, just to come back and raise :apple:

like phoenix from the ashes. This might sound melodramatic, but if you know how life and business works, you know how hard this is and what kind of extraordinary person it takes to do this.

Jobs was the best businessman I have ever seen, because he had a sense of what seemingly minor inventions, like the computermouse, would be gamechangers.

Steve basically was :apple:

. Without a person like him, they are just another giant company. They will ride on the wave he created for another few years maybe, until some other company will pass them by.

Cook is doing a good Job so far, but he is no Steve Jobs and the chance of another one like him showing up and taking over is pretty much nil.

This is not "doom and gloom". I love :apple:

. I am sad that it has to go this way, but I know that this is how the world works. Read this post in 5 to 10 years and you will know I was right.

smallcoffee · Nov 29, 2014

Meister said:
That just means you do not understand how giant companies like this work.

Years ago, after Steve left, went down. He went into other groundbreaking things, like Pixar, just to come back and raise like phoenix from the ashes. This might sound melodramatic, but if you know how life and business works, you know how hard this is and what kind of extraordinary person it takes to do this.

Jobs was the best businessman I have ever seen, because he had a sense of what seemingly minor inventions, like the computermouse, would be gamechangers.

Steve basically was . Without a person like him, they are just another giant company. They will ride on the wave he created for another few years maybe, until some other company will pass them by.

Cook is doing a good Job so far, but he is no Steve Jobs and the chance of another one like him showing up and taking over is pretty much nil.

This is not "doom and gloom". I love . I am sad that it has to go this way, but I know that this is how the world works. Read this post in 5 to 10 years and you will know I was right.

There was only one Steve Jobs, but what about the great many of companies who have never had somebody like him, but continue to do great things and make great products?

I think it's a little condescending to say that I "don't understand how giant companies work". Would you care then to explain just how "giant companies work"?

Meister · Nov 29, 2014

smallcoffee said:
There was only one Steve Jobs, but what about the great many of companies who have never had somebody like him, but continue to do great things and make great products?

For example?

smallcoffee · Nov 29, 2014

Meister said:
For example?

Take a look at the Fortune 50 list?

grahamperrin · Nov 29, 2014

Greatness

smallcoffee said:
what about the great many of companies who have never had somebody like him, but continue to do great things and make great products?

smallcoffee said:
Take a look at the Fortune 50 list?

A company can do and produce great things without financial greatness.

A company can be financially great despite its inferior products. And so on.

smallcoffee · Nov 29, 2014

grahamperrin said:
A company can do and produce great things without financial greatness.

A company can be financially great despite its inferior products. And so on.

Yes this is true

Meister · Nov 29, 2014

grahamperrin said:
A company can do and produce great things without financial greatness.

A company can be financially great despite its inferior products. And so on.

Thank you! This is what I wanted to answer, but didn't know how to put it.

It's rather unlikely that :apple:

will become financially unsuccessfull over night, but the spirit of innovation is not the same. I still like their products very much and their is no real alternative when using electronics. So lets hope Tim can keep it together and hope for the best

smallcoffee · Nov 29, 2014

Meister said:
Thank you! This is what I wanted to answer, but didn't know how to put it.

It's rather unlikely that will become financially unsuccessfull over night, but the spirit of innovation is not the same. I still like their products very much and their is no real alternative when using electronics. So lets hope Tim can keep it together and hope for the best

There are plenty of alternatives, and Apple is continuously innovating. How are they not?

Are you just defining innovation as new product categories? Because if so, that's a very limiting view of what innovation is.

Rogifan · Nov 29, 2014

Meister said:
Thank you! This is what I wanted to answer, but didn't know how to put it.

It's rather unlikely that will become financially unsuccessfull over night, but the spirit of innovation is not the same. I still like their products very much and their is no real alternative when using electronics. So lets hope Tim can keep it together and hope for the best

What was Apple's "spirit of innovation" between 2001 and 2007?

Meister · Nov 29, 2014

Rogifan said:
What was Apple's "spirit of innovation" between 2001 and 2007?

Dormant.

smallcoffee · Nov 29, 2014

How was it dormant? They created the iPhone during that period.

Rogifan · Nov 30, 2014

smallcoffee said:
How was it dormant? They created the iPhone during that period.

Hey, I don't think any period of Steve Jobs 2.0 or Tim Cook 1.0 has been innovation dormant. But to me innovation isn't solely based on big hits like iPod or iPhone. I think Touch ID, Pay and a lot of the work they did with iOS 8 in terms of extensions and continuity are very important. Jony Ive said Watch was the most difficult project he's ever worked on at Apple. IMO the stuff Apple is working on now is as innovative if not more so than anything they did under Jobs 2.0

Meister · Nov 30, 2014

Rogifan said:
I think Touch ID, Pay and a lot of the work they did with iOS 8 in terms of extensions and continuity are very important. Jony Ive said Watch was the most difficult project he's ever worked on at Apple.

pay will be very successfull in the US, but it's nothing really new.
The :apple:

watch is a nice gimmick. Software wise :apple:

is doing nothing special right now.

The big things under Jobs were:

The itunes-ipod combo
The mouse
The iPhone (multi-gesture-touchscreens)

Those were groundbreaking. What :apple:

is doing right now is not.

maflynn · Nov 30, 2014

Ulenspiegel said:
1. Yes.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/4-reasons-buy-non-retina-macbook-pro-3532793/
http://www.imore.com/why-heck-would-anyone-buy-non-retina-macbook-pro-well and so on and so forth...

2. Apple Watch (2015) ⟺ Pebble (launched 2013), Samsung Galaxy Gear (launched 2013), Sony SmartWatch (launched 2013).

Your links are for the MBP and not the new Mac Pro. The new Mac Pro is a brand new design, and not just a face lift.

Just because others come out first doesn't make it any less revolutionary. Consider the iPod, there were a ton of MP3 players, but the iPod brought all the pieces together and produced an great product.

Ulenspiegel · Nov 30, 2014

maflynn said:
Your links are for the MBP and not the new Mac Pro. The new Mac Pro is a brand new design, and not just a face lift.

Just because others come out first doesn't make it any less revolutionary. Consider the iPod, there were a ton of MP3 players, but the iPod brought all the pieces together and produced an great product.

Would you please be so kind and dwell on the innovative/creative aspects of nMP and the innovative/creative role Apple played/plays in smartwatches.

Innovation and creativity was the first iPhone, iPad etc., but lately there is no "vision", novelty, just changing, developing the original ideas.

That is innovative/creative in the field of smartwatches:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/3/6098227/samsung-gear-s-wearing-the-most-powerful-smartwatch-yet

smallcoffee · Nov 30, 2014

Meister said:
pay will be very successfull in the US, but it's nothing really new.
The watch is a nice gimmick. Software wise is doing nothing special right now.

The big things under Jobs were:

The itunes-ipod combo

The mouse

The iPhone (multi-gesture-touchscreens)

Those were groundbreaking. What is doing right now is not.

iTunes-iPod is fundamentally no different than many of the things they are doing now. Doing things the right way can be just as innovative as being the first to do them.

Rogifan · Nov 30, 2014

Meister said:
pay will be very successfull in the US, but it's nothing really new.
The watch is a nice gimmick. Software wise is doing nothing special right now.

The big things under Jobs were:

The itunes-ipod combo

The mouse

The iPhone (multi-gesture-touchscreens)

Those were groundbreaking. What is doing right now is not.

I wasn't aware that you got to decide what was groundbreaking or not. For me touch ID is just as important as anything you mentioned there. I couldn't care less if it's considered groundbreaking or not.

Poisonivy326 · Nov 30, 2014

Eh, it's all what you prefer as a worker. Some people like very structured companies where every day you know what you're going to do, you know what the rules are, and there's a premium placed on organization and efficiency. Others find that kind of workplace stifling and isolating.

Glassdoor employee reviews for Google have some people complaining that you often have no idea what you're working on, that projects are started and abandoned at the drop of a hat, and the company reorganizes and reshuffles teams randomly. Other workers extoll the "Google way", where you can bring your dog to work and the hierarchy isn't as rigidly top-down.

I think it's sort of a self-selecting thing: workers who like to feel that every day they're making the trains run on time will flock to Apple, workers whose mantra is "I hate being told what to do all the time" will flock to Google.

Apple's Culture is actually not that creative.

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