Forum Migration: Upvotes and Retroactive (lack of) Anonymity

arn · Dec 9, 2014

Update, see this post: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20470416/

We are moving to different forum software in the near future. We will be moving from our current Upvote system to a native "Like" function.

While we never meant our Upvote system to be anonymous, we just never got around to providing any way for people to see who voted on what.

The new system shows who liked any post from the beginning. So, there is a change and it will retroactively cover all existing Upvotes. Just wanted to get a feel for how big a deal this is for people.

arn

MacDawg · Dec 9, 2014

Really makes no difference to me
I don't pay any attention to the current upvote system anyway

GGJstudios · Dec 9, 2014

arn said:
We are moving to different forum software in the near future. We will be moving from our current Upvote system to a native "Like" function.

While we never meant our Upvote system to be anonymous, we just never got around to providing any way for people to see who voted on what.

The new system shows who liked any post. So, there is a change. Just wanted to get a feel for how big a deal this is for people.

arn

I wouldn't mind seeing all of this upvote/downvote/like functionality go away, only because it can so easily be abused to the point where it's meaningless, as it is now. If everyone was responsible in using such features, it would be different. That being said, there are far more important things to think about than if someone liked/upvoted a post. I vote for you doing whatever makes site administration and moderation easier!

SandboxGeneral · Dec 9, 2014

It matter not to me one way or another. I do up vote posts from time to time though.

Alrescha · Dec 9, 2014

arn said:
The new system shows who liked any post. So, there is a change. Just wanted to get a feel for how big a deal this is for people.

Anything that makes this site more like Facebook makes me die a little inside.

A.
(who likes being able to upvote a post without anyone being able to try and read something into it)

Apple_Robert · Dec 9, 2014

In my opinion, the anonymity should be kept, as it keeps the purpose of the feature from turning into a personality contest or conflict, depending on the users involved.

There is no real valid reason to see who voted for a post other than some people want to be nosy.

arn · Dec 9, 2014

BasicGreatGuy said:
There is no real valid reason to see who voted for a post other than some people want to be nosy.

The main reason is that that's how the software works.

Meister · Dec 9, 2014

arn said:
The main reason is that that's how the software works.

One of the main reasons I use macrumors is, that it loads even with a super slow connection.
I really like the forum software and I am not looking forward to a change.

arn · Dec 9, 2014

Meister said:
One of the main reasons I use macrumors is, that it loads even with a super slow connection.
I really like the forum software and I am not looking forward to a change.

I expect you will like the new software functionality. It's not that different, just a bit better.

Look and feel changes will be harder to get used to I think

arn

Apple fanboy · Dec 9, 2014

Not a big user of up voting. I don't really notice the vote counts either. Sometimes it can be useful like on a photography competition we used to run. Other than that, go with what's easier for you guys.

Eric5h5 · Dec 9, 2014

Meister said:
One of the main reasons I use macrumors is, that it loads even with a super slow connection.
I really like the forum software and I am not looking forward to a change.

It's not a big deal; a forum I frequent made the same change a while ago and it's not slower or anything. Some of the features are a lot better. Although I will say I'm not that keen on the upvotes/likes not being anonymous. Not a huge problem but it would be better if it didn't work that way IMO.

--Eric

Weaselboy · Dec 10, 2014

arn said:
The new system shows who liked any post. So, there is a change. Just wanted to get a feel for how big a deal this is for people.

I actually like the idea of showing who voted. I think it adds value to the "like" knowing who liked something.

For example, in a thread about "What is the best way to do XX", I see four likes to one of the answers and all four of those likes are from regular users of the forum who I know almost always give solid advice... I would give that post greater consideration than others.

Also, I think showing the user name that liked will help reduce the waves of upvotes to the wise acre comments in some of the front page news threads.

chown33 · Dec 10, 2014

If votes are no longer anonymous, it'll reduce my use of ironic upvotes. I'll miss this subtle feature, but if it dies it dies.

Beyond that, wit is wit, and I'll still upvote witty or trenchant posts.

arn · Dec 10, 2014

Weaselboy said:
I actually like the idea of showing who voted. I think it adds value to the "like" knowing who liked something.

For example, in a thread about "What is the best way to do XX", I see four likes to one of the answers and all four of those likes are from regular users of the forum who I know almost always give solid advice... I would give that post greater consideration than others.

Also, I think showing the user name that liked will help reduce the waves of upvotes to the wise acre comments in some of the front page news threads.

It actually is kind of nice with the Likes. Because people will know when people like their content. It provides a nice feedback loop.

(Screenshot using the default Xenforo theme)

grahamperrin · Dec 10, 2014

Thoughts

arn said:
… to a native "Like" function. …

The new system shows who liked any post. …

I like the idea of naming voters.

If the button is named 'like', I'll click reasonably often.

If the button is named 'thank you' or 'thanks', I'll click far more often.

Related

Thanks Option – A roundup, and looking ahead (to beyond the migration from vBulletin)

Counting the thanks given to a member

I would not want Xenforo to present at the topic level the number of likes that each poster has received across the site. (I participated in a private forum where that was introduced, as a feature, with good intentions, but it backfired badly.)

If there's the option of presenting that number at the member's statistics page, that could be good. I'm not fussed (I'm not here for the votes/thanks.)

Rating threads

I don't like this, primarily because with the current system the voter can not change their vote.

Also I don't think it adds real value to see the number of stars (or absence of stars) in a list of topics.

Postscripts

~~I just realised, this post 15 crossed paths with arn's post 14. I should clarify, this post was just to give examples of types of thing that can work well.~~ Those examples have moved to https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20506210#post20506210

From XenForo Community I see that it's easy to get a poster's statistics in an overlay at the topic level. This is OK; it's not in-your-face (not overtly competitive, not distracting from topic content).

Alrescha · Dec 10, 2014

arn said:
(Screenshot using the default Xenforo theme)

Your screenshot raises a question in my mind: are you going to retroactively de-anonymize previous upvotes and turn them into likes?

A.

arn · Dec 10, 2014

Alrescha said:
Your screenshot raises a question in my mind: are you going to retroactively de-anonymize previous upvotes and turn them into likes?

A.

Yes. I guess that was the point of this thread, but perhaps it wasn't clear enough.

All existing votes will be non-anonymized when moving to Xenforo.

arn

Alrescha · Dec 10, 2014

arn said:
Yes. I guess that was the point of this thread, but perhaps it wasn't clear enough.

You got that right. How very Facebook of you.

Addendum:

Let me be very clear, when I asked that question I fully expected you to reply with something along the lines of "No, we would never do anything like that to our users", and I was already considering what I would write in apology for thinking so negatively.

I am so surprised I can barely type.

A.

arn · Dec 10, 2014

Alrescha said:
You got that right. How very Facebook of you.

Addendum:

Let me be very clear, when I asked that question I fully expected you to reply with something along the lines of "No, we would never do anything like that to our users", and I was already considering what I would write in apology for thinking so negatively.

I am so surprised I can barely type.

A.

Well, that's what this thread is for. To see how big a deal it would be. The likes were never meant to be anonymous, but it just turned out that way.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/12434700/

arn

cube · Dec 10, 2014

Was it written in the privacy policy that votes were public?

GGJstudios · Dec 10, 2014

arn said:
All existing votes will be non-anonymized when moving to Xenforo.

arn

It will be interesting to see what happens when the abuses and abusers of the voting system are revealed. Is there any way to migrate to the new system and simply lose all the existing votes? What will happen to all the existing downvotes, if the new system only records likes?

arn · Dec 10, 2014

cube said:
Was it written in the privacy policy that votes were public?

It's not really addressed anywhere besides that one post.

arn

arn · Dec 10, 2014

GGJstudios said:
It will be interesting to see what happens when the abuses and abusers of the voting system are revealed. Is there any way to migrate to the new system and simply lose all the existing votes? What will happen to all the existing downvotes, if the new system only records likes?

New system only records likes. So all downvotes are discarded in the transfer.

This isn't set in stone. If there are clear objections about it (which it seems there are), we can do some sort of opt-in system where we only import Likes from people who say it's OK. And not-transfer the others.

arn

Clix Pix · Dec 10, 2014

Is there an Admin option to not utilize the "like" system at all?

arn · Dec 10, 2014

Clix Pix said:
Is there an Admin option to not utilize the "like" system at all?

Yes, but we use the Like/Vote system for front page comment votes. Plus it's useful in other ways in the fully realized system in the forums.

arn

Forum Migration: Upvotes and Retroactive (lack of) Anonymity

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