2013 rMacbook Pro Battery after 500 Cycles - More Cycles = Less battery myth busted?

Artimus12 · Nov 2, 2014

BeachChair said:
I haven't, no. Like draining it as much as I can and then recharging fully?

Drain it until it switches itself off, then charge it to the green light + around 2 or 3 hours more before disconnecting.

Edit: don't just drain it by running intensive apps continuously, try to be gradual\natural about it - use it normally so the battery gets to re-learn it's limits properly and without slamming to a halt.

It may help and there's no harm in trying at this point. If your battery health improves, do the same again 1 more time! Then once a month or so, every month.

yangchewren · Nov 2, 2014

I have a 2010 13" MBP that has not seen much outside usage. When it was 3 years old it had about 23 cycles and 80% battery capacity left. Now (4yrs+) it has roughly 30 or so cycles and 75% capacity left with the battery replacement warning appearing.

You can see that the battery was hardly used but just degraded over time. If I were to compare this to my 2009 15" (heavily utilized), I would say that actual battery use is negligible to the life of the battery.

Allthings-I · Nov 4, 2014

Artimus12 said:
so you don't leave it plugged in?

I also rarely leave it plugged in, only time my laptops plugged in is when I am doing some heavy work on it. Besides that it is mostly running on battery or only plugged in while its charging.

and lastly, I have never taken any precautions, since the day I bought my mac's and I use them like i need to and never been careful or be picky about the way i charge or discharge.

The way I see it is, you either use it or loose it much like with everything else in life.

I always found the concept dumb about preserving the cycles of the battery by keeping it plugged in...

you have to cycle things the way they are designed to, much like with anything in life, cars for example, if you keep the fuel tank full all the time, you will have gas that never cycles and that will lead to damage in the long run or a car that is not driven often (unless of course stored in the absolute perfect conditions such as temperature controlled garage etc).

I do understand for some of us the expense on a Mac is a very big one and it means the world to keep it in perfect condition (My Macbook's have been in excellent condition as I always buy screen protector + hard plastic casing for them and replace the plastic casing/cover if it gets damaged as needed) but that should not deter you from using it the way its designed to.

xiwong · Nov 4, 2014

I'm in college, which means everyone has a Mac. From what I have seen, people with more charge cycles typically have better battery health than people with less charge cycles (considering computers of the same age). However, I don't think this is because of charge cycles, but instead how the computer is used.

My 2012 cMBP 15 has 114 cycles (90% health), and the closest data points I have are a 2012 rMBP 13 (458 cycles, 98% health) and a 2012 cMBP 13 (356 cycles, 99% health). All were bought on the same weekend about a year and some months ago.

Generally, I find that people who use their computer on battery more often are not doing CPU/GPU intensive tasks. This is because if you're running your CPU/GPU at 100%, the battery will die in an hour, so there is no reason not to use AC. As a result, you have less battery cycles. But also, when you run your CPU/GPU hard, the battery heats up significantly due to proximity. My battery reaches 40C when I run my CPU hard, and I run my CPU/GPU hard for hours every day. The other samples essentially never have the CPU running above probably 40%. That definitely has had more of a health impact than my cycle count.

GGJstudios · Jan 31, 2015

Max(IT) said:
Not a solution but you should try a calibration

BeachChair said:
I haven't, no. Like draining it as much as I can and then recharging fully?

Artimus12 said:
Drain it until it switches itself off, then charge it to the green light + around 2 or 3 hours more before disconnecting.

Edit: don't just drain it by running intensive apps continuously, try to be gradual\natural about it - use it normally so the battery gets to re-learn it's limits properly and without slamming to a halt.

In case someone reads this thread and is misinformed, the above recommendations are NOT to be followed. The built-in batteries in the newer Mac unibody notebooks come pre-calibrated and do not require regular calibration like the removable batteries in older Apple notebooks. Not only that, but the steps suggested above are not even the proper calibration procedure for even those Macs that have removable batteries.

Run on battery whenever you need to and plug it in whenever you can. You can plug or unplug any time you need to, regardless of the charged percentage, and you never need to completely drain your battery.



The link below should answer most, if not all, of your battery/charging questions, including tips for maximizing battery performance. If you havent already done so, I highly recommend you take the time to read it.

Apple Notebook Battery FAQ

Allthings-I · Jan 31, 2015

GGJstudios said:
In case someone reads this thread and is misinformed, the above recommendations are NOT to be followed. The built-in batteries in the newer Mac unibody notebooks come pre-calibrated and do not require regular calibration like the removable batteries in older Apple notebooks. Not only that, but the steps suggested above are not even the proper calibration procedure for even those Macs that have removable batteries.

Run on battery whenever you need to and plug it in whenever you can. You can plug or unplug any time you need to, regardless of the charged percentage, and you never need to completely drain your battery.

The link below should answer most, if not all, of your battery/charging questions, including tips for maximizing battery performance. If you havent already done so, I highly recommend you take the time to read it.
Apple Notebook Battery FAQ

Well said,

issue of modern age is that people are still living in the past thinking wise, they are not adapting to the improvements of technology as fast as its evolving.

Since my 2011 first macbook Air I have never taken into account the # of times I charge, discharge or cycle consciously to "calibrate".

I use my laptop the way its designed to, day in day out, and so far the battery life has been nothing but great.

Its like with all other things....if you don't use it, you loose it and thats exactly whats happening with vast majority that simply keep their laptops plugged in upon every chance they get. Only time I use my charger is when editing video's or playing a game or running other CPU intensive programs as I find it the performance to be slightly lower when running on battery while performing those tasks.

Also when I recommend someone buying a used macbook, we do look at cycles, they appear consistent with the age, well great, we are sold.

Technology adapts to our needs, so we should adapt to its needs as well and thats regular usage the way its designed to be used, after all, if you are just plugging in ALL the time, might as well just get a iMac or Mac Mini, it defeats the purpose of having a laptop as the main difference is the portability (yes attached screen, keyboard and all that also plays a role).

Max(IT) · Jan 31, 2015

GGJstudios said:
In case someone reads this thread and is misinformed, the above recommendations are NOT to be followed. The built-in batteries in the newer Mac unibody notebooks come pre-calibrated and do not require regular calibration like the removable batteries in older Apple notebooks. Not only that, but the steps suggested above are not even the proper calibration procedure for even those Macs that have removable batteries.

Run on battery whenever you need to and plug it in whenever you can. You can plug or unplug any time you need to, regardless of the charged percentage, and you never need to completely drain your battery.

The link below should answer most, if not all, of your battery/charging questions, including tips for maximizing battery performance. If you havent already done so, I highly recommend you take the time to read it.
Apple Notebook Battery FAQ

I didn't speak about a REGULAR calibration. Learn to read and understand, before criticize.
He clearly has a problem....

nylon · Jan 31, 2015

On this calibration issue, the Apple article seems to refer to an initial calibration not being required on the new models, i.e. the new machines come pre-calibrated. However, I don't think this means that one should not attempt to calibrate the battery after many recharge cycles have taken place. Logically it doesn't seem to make sense.

GGJstudios · Jan 31, 2015

nylon said:
On this calibration issue, the Apple article seems to refer to an initial calibration not being required on the new models, i.e. the new machines come pre-calibrated. However, I don't think this means that one should not attempt to calibrate the battery after many recharge cycles have taken place. Logically it doesn't seem to make sense.

No, it means they don't require calibration. If it only applied to initial calibration, it wouldn't state:

Current Apple portable computer batteries are pre-calibrated and do not require the calibration procedure outlined in this article.

They don't require calibration at all, either initially or throughout their life.

nylon · Jan 31, 2015

GGJstudios said:
No, it means they don't require calibration. If it only applied to initial calibration, it wouldn't state:

They don't require calibration at all, either initially or throughout their life.

The calibration procedure outlined in the article seems to refer to "initial calibration" hence the term "pre-calibration". I don't think the apple support article is clear with regards to "on-going" calibration at all on the retina MBP's. I don't think there is any harm in calibrating the battery every month or few months on a retina Macbook Pro. I have 600 cycles and am at 86% of original capacity. Maybe it's just my understanding of the language used and I could be wrong.

Is there any data on this? I would change my habits if data indicated otherwise.

GGJstudios · Jan 31, 2015

nylon said:
The calibration procedure outlined in the article seems to refer to "initial calibration"

No, the procedure doesn't refer only to initial calibration. As it states:

You should perform this procedure when you first use your computer and then every few months after that.

That procedure, both for initial and subsequent calibration, applies only to those portable Macs with removable batteries, as stated. The procedure is not to be followed at any time for newer Macs with built-in batteries.

nylon said:
I don't think there is any harm in calibrating the battery every month or few months on a retina Macbook Pro.

It is unnecessary and fully draining your battery is not good for it and can shorten your battery life.

nylon · Jan 31, 2015

GGJstudios said:
No, the procedure doesn't refer only to initial calibration. As it states:

That procedure, both for initial and subsequent calibration, applies only to those portable Macs with removable batteries, as stated. The procedure is not to be followed at any time for newer Macs with built-in batteries.

It is unnecessary and fully draining your battery is not good for it and can shorten your battery life.

Right it states that for the older models. But there is no reference to "on-going" calibration for newer models. It just says that they arrive "pre-calibrated". So if they arrive pre-calibrated logic would dictate that it means calibration has been done at the factory. Which would mean that calibration is required. Hence my confusion with regards to "on-going" calibration.

simonsi · Jan 31, 2015

nylon said:
The calibration procedure outlined in the article seems to refer to "initial calibration" hence the term "pre-calibration". I don't think the apple support article is clear with regards to "on-going" calibration at all on the retina MBP's. I don't think there is any harm in calibrating the battery every month or few months on a retina Macbook Pro. I have 600 cycles and am at 86% of original capacity. Maybe it's just my understanding of the language used and I could be wrong.

Is there any data on this? I would change my habits if data indicated otherwise.

I am at 90% after 3.8yrs and 952 cycles, never calibrated.

simonsi · Jan 31, 2015

nylon said:
Right it states that for the older models. But there is no reference to "on-going" calibration for newer models. It just says that they arrive "pre-calibrated". So if they arrive pre-calibrated logic would dictate that it means calibration has been done at the factory. Which would mean that calibration is required. Hence my confusion with regards to "on-going" calibration.

The Apple factory wont be charging and draining Macbooks to pre-calibrate them (do you think they have time for that?), likely the battery supplier provides a tight spec and possibly 1 or 2 calibration data points which are then entered into the firmware as part of the assembly process, calibrating the battery logic to the battery.

To link an unknown factory procedure with an outdated (by Apple's description), procedure and suggest they are the same and it is carried out because you aren't convinced you are being told not to seems completely illogical....

nylon · Jan 31, 2015

simonsi said:
I am at 90% after 3.8yrs and 952 cycles, never calibrated.

You are on a 13" pre Retina machine as per your signature. I'm wondering what the data is on the Retina machines. Wish there was a geekbench type of tool for batteries where one could upload data. Additionally, your battery performance is amazing. Can you post a screenshot of that.

----------

simonsi said:
The Apple factory wont be charging and draining Macbooks to pre-calibrate them (do you think they have time for that?), likely the battery supplier provides a tight spec and possibly 1 or 2 calibration data points which are then entered into the firmware as part of the assembly process, calibrating the battery logic to the battery.

To link an unknown factory procedure with an outdated (by Apple's description), procedure and suggest they are the same and it is carried out because you aren't convinced you are being told not to seems completely illogical....

I guess we are all working off of certain assumptions. As I said, it would be nice to have hard data points.

GGJstudios · Jan 31, 2015

nylon said:
Right it states that for the older models. But there is no reference to "on-going" calibration for newer models. It just says that they arrive "pre-calibrated". So if they arrive pre-calibrated logic would dictate that it means calibration has been done at the factory. Which would mean that calibration is required. Hence my confusion with regards to "on-going" calibration.

If the newer models required calibration at any point in time, Apple would have said something like "Current Apple portable computer batteries are pre-calibrated and do not initially require the calibration procedure outlined in this article. They do, however, require calibration every few months." They didn't state anything like that.

Apple doesn't state anywhere that Mac notebooks with built-in batteries ever require calibration at any point in time. In fact, they state the opposite. You're trying to misinterpret their statement to justify a meaning that was never intended.

If you want to calibrate your battery, that's up to you. You won't, however, find any statement from Apple that suggests it's needed or appropriate.

It's also important to remember that calibration does not improve battery health. It only affects battery readings on those models that require it. Fully draining your battery can have adverse effects on your battery's lifespan.

simonsi · Jan 31, 2015

nylon said:
...Can you post a screenshot of that....

Sure, my memory was slightly off, 947 cycles but health currently showing as 92%

No battery-babying ever, occasionally run down to reserve, never drained completely though. Spends all night every night on charge and a lot of the 9-5 period too but almost always has a draw-down in the evening.

My MBA has spent much less time on battery and has suffered the same health decline in approx half the time - which may put it en route to 80% @ 1000 if it ever gets there, suspect time decay will hit it first.

Don't think the electronics re battery management have necessarily changed with the Retina's, possibly just the mechanical package.

Natzoo · Jan 31, 2015

What app is this

simonsi · Jan 31, 2015

Battery Guard from the MAS

Battery Guard

I originally installed it to replace the "remaining time on battery" in the menubar that was removed by Mavericks (or ML, not sure which?), but it keeps track of all the other usual parameters as well.

Allthings-I · Jan 31, 2015

Natzoo said:
What app is this

You can also use coconut battery - as another choice.

Artimus12 · Jan 31, 2015

Since Apple didn't magically reinvent the Li-Ion battery for their latest models, they need periodic calibration.

Battery University.com

simonsi · Jan 31, 2015

Artimus12 said:
Since Apple didn't magically reinvent the Li-Ion battery for their latest models, they need periodic calibration.

Battery University.com

Nope, but making the measurement of what goes in and out is getting better all the time, removing the periodic calibration is an example of Apple having done that.

"Calibration" isn't something that happens to the battery itself, it happens within the monitoring circuitry. If Apple aren't recalibrating the electronics by the same method as before, then simply carrying out the same activities with the battery won't trigger the recalibration in the electronics. Its as simple as that.

GGJstudios · Jan 31, 2015

Artimus12 said:
Since Apple didn't magically reinvent the Li-Ion battery for their latest models, they need periodic calibration.

False. BatteryUniversity is not an authoritative source for information on the battery technology employed by Apple. And your claims that calibration is needed is clearly flawed, since you don't even know the proper calibration procedure for those removable batteries that require it.

Max(IT) · Feb 1, 2015

Every battery requires a calibration, once in a while. It doesn't matter what you think Apple had magically done to your battery.
I'm not suggesting to do that on a regular basis, I'm not doing that, but to drain it entirely once in a few months is correct and let the system "know" how much is fully charged and fully discharged (especially fully charged, since the protection system doesn't allow the battery to go below a specific voltage).

simonsi · Feb 1, 2015

Max(IT) said:
...but to drain it entirely once in a few months is correct...

Correct for what? Apple batteries despite them saying it isn't required? Please call them and be sure to let them know....

My battery health reading fluctuates by approx 2% in normal usage, this indicates to me the 100%-point IS being continuously re-calibrated against the battery performance without doing any particular deliberate drain/charge process.

That is different to saying Li batteries need using to maintain their capacity, fully agree with that but that isn't "calibration".

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