iPhone domination

iPhone domination

apolloa said:

But Apple have had a few phones for sale at the same time, like they keep the older models going but at cheaper prices, plus the 4C.

This is the first time they have had 2 NEW phones at the same time at high prices though. So I guess you can say they expanded in that aspect. And thankyou for your last sentence sir.

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Indeed. The 5C was on offer last year but was not a new offering as such. The owners of iPhone 5's for instance were not potentially in its market range because it was a repackaged version of that phone. Therefore had limited outreach on that basis. It was also at a reduced price albeit still expensive but I didn't class it as a current flagship for its time. This year we had 2 brand new offering with high specs to satisfy current users in the market for the latest tech from Apple. That was my meaning with expansion of sales.

After all this posts, nobody got through to the gist of it. Too much bias and subjectivity chains i suppose.

Look at it this way. If apple absolutely owns the high end market (90%+), that tells me people are unwilling to pay high end prices for android phones, considering they do exist, hence they value android phones less. If they value android phones less and if we remove price from the equation, wouldn't iphone absolutely own that marketshare too? No?

Try this. Apple and samsung sold the same amount of smartphones in q4 2014, but apple earned 14x as much as samsung. Other manufacturers dont really change this ratio from the 'amount earned' perspective. At all. Are people really expecting all those manufacturers to keep investing in r&d on the same level as the company earning 10x as much (counting only iphones) as them all, collectively? What about acquisitions? Large infrastructure projects? Payment solutions? How is mobile landscape gonna look 5 years from now?

What about brand power?

Both vertical and horizontal integration? Do any of you really think vertical and horizontal integration arent a necessity moving forward? Oh yeah, we run into an ideological wall here. Let's leave it at that.

What about the whole android ecosystem? Companies are showing tendency towards vertical integration (the future also). Can they pull services like Googles alone? Will Google ever be able to compete in the hardware department alone? What happens when Googles interests part with those of consumers, meaning developing android, considering they earn money exclusively from google services available on other platforms and have failed in attempt to monetize android? What about Google problems in mobile ad business? You think samsung is developing tizen out of pride and obesity?

The premise of this thread should be changed. Is there any way whatsoever iphone is not dominant?

Android is much more commoditized than Apple. One operating system, Qualcomm chipsets basically. Everybody looks forward to the next Snapdragon processor. I think it's that commodity aspect of Android that I believe is making it hard to really differentiate features. Of course Samsung adds value with their AMOLED screens and other manufacturers add value in other ways.

Apple has the same issues, except it's hardware chipset is customized to an extent.

But when you have an Oppo (and others) with a certain parity on features willing to compete on price, how are the flagship manufacturers going to differentiate themselves?

I7guy said:

Android is much more commoditized than Apple. One operating system, Qualcomm chipsets basically. Everybody looks forward to the next Snapdragon processor. I think it's that commodity aspect of Android that I believe is making it hard to really differentiate features. Of course Samsung adds value with their AMOLED screens and other manufacturers add value in other ways.

Apple has the same issues, except it's hardware chipset is customized to an extent.

But when you have an Oppo (and others) with a certain parity on features willing to compete on price, how are the flagship manufacturers going to differentiate themselves?

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it doesnt have the same issues. it doesnt worry about profit margins of its chips like qualcomm does.

regarding your question, i think cyanogen has an answer to that

I think we can all agree that Apple had a dominating quarter.

They both have their place IMO, I work with folks who hate being tied to iTunes, so they use Android, that being said they will both be around for the future.

I do see some MFG maybe giving up, HTC, Motorola, Samsung, LG are the bigger players in the Android market, and some in Windows Phone. I am not sure where the Windows phone is headed. but I can not imagine it competes nearly as close as iOS and Android.

I am guessing when the dust settles it will be Samsung and Apple head to head, and the other players will either find something different or stick around for whatever piece of market share they can get, Sony seems to be doing ok, Blackberry is dying we just do not know how long their Death scene will take before they give up.

We are all waiting to see that modular Android phone make it's way to the market, so you can customize basically the whole phone, we will see because this will compete with the Nexus lineup or Pure Android Experience devices.

Wicked1 said:

They both have their place IMO, I work with folks who hate being tied to iTunes, so they use Android, that being said they will both be around for the future.

I do see some MFG maybe giving up, HTC, Motorola, Samsung, LG are the bigger players in the Android market, and some in Windows Phone. I am not sure where the Windows phone is headed. but I can not imagine it competes nearly as close as iOS and Android.

I am guessing when the dust settles it will be Samsung and Apple head to head, and the other players will either find something different or stick around for whatever piece of market share they can get, Sony seems to be doing ok, Blackberry is dying we just do not know how long their Death scene will take before they give up.

We are all waiting to see that modular Android phone make it's way to the market, so you can customize basically the whole phone, we will see because this will compete with the Nexus lineup or Pure Android Experience devices.

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yes, they all have their place. when the dust settles, android oems are going to serve exclusively low to mid end market.

actually, sony is not doing good at all. in line with all the other android oems. link 1, link 2, link 3

the whole android scene is dying. There are a few manufacturers that can bring life to it, but only through forking android. the premise is, as long as google supplies the same os to all manufacturers, they wont be making any money. the conclusion is manufacturers need to vertically integrate, build their own software and services, and start tweaking their generic cpu designs to better suit their own software. samsung is doing it right now while im writing this.

in any case, android is the stone around the legs of various android oems, dragging them down. in order to become profitable, they need to differentiate themselves. software differentiation being a fundamental segment.

only a few industries in the world show this level of despair, profit/brand domination and disparity. very sad indeed.

See this is why I do not like the Android/MFG marketplace, too many MFG's of phones and Android's newest versions take too long to get on older devices.

http://www.androidauthority.com/lollipop-android-distro-numbers-584235/

Getting better but really some old OS and old phones out there, and now they are just rolling lollipop out to the S5 which is going to be replaced by the S6 anytime?

Sticking with Apple until the Android echo system and phones are a bit better.

beosound3200 said:

yes, they all have their place. when the dust settles, android oems are going to serve exclusively low to mid end market.

actually, sony is not doing good at all. in line with all the other android oems. link 1, link 2, link 3

the whole android scene is dying. There are a few manufacturers that can bring life to it, but only through forking android. the premise is, as long as google supplies the same os to all manufacturers, they wont be making any money. the conclusion is manufacturers need to vertically integrate, build their own software and services, and start tweaking their generic cpu designs to better suit their own software. samsung is doing it right now while im writing this.

in any case, android is the stone around the legs of various android oems, dragging them down. in order to become profitable, they need to differentiate themselves. software differentiation being a fundamental segment.

only a few industries in the world show this level of despair, profit/brand domination and disparity. very sad indeed.

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I know I am only one user, but the software differentiation is exactly what I do not want. GPE runs best. If I'm forced to choose between a bunch of skinned phones when I'm buying my next phone I'll probably go back to iOS.

I would not say the android scene is dying. Sure OEM profitability is, but that really has no effect on my enjoyment of the product. Didnt android just reach like 1 billion installs? Just like how Windows OEM low profitability does not have any effect on my use of their products. I would even argue it is a good thing because costs for the consumer go down. It feels like everyone always evaluates Apple from an investors perspective. I really can't care less, I don't own Apple stock.

Quite frankly, the fact that Apple makes so much money leads me to avoid paying them if at all possible.

1 billion vs maybe 300milion is hardly domination.

gotluck said:

I know I am only one user, but the software differentiation is exactly what I do not want. GPE runs best. If I'm forced to choose between a bunch of skinned phones when I'm buying my next phone I'll probably go back to iOS.

I would not say the android scene is dying. Sure OEM profitability is, but that really has no effect on my enjoyment of the product. Didnt android just reach like 1 billion installs? Just like how Windows OEM low profitability does not have any effect on my use of their products. I would even argue it is a good thing because costs for the consumer go down. It feels like everyone always evaluates Apple from an investors perspective. I really can't care less, I don't own Apple stock.

Quite frankly, the fact that Apple makes so much money leads me to avoid paying them if at all possible.

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So you base who you buy from based on what you deem to be excessive profits? Interesting?

gotluck said:

I know I am only one user, but the software differentiation is exactly what I do not want. GPE runs best. If I'm forced to choose between a bunch of skinned phones when I'm buying my next phone I'll probably go back to iOS.

I would not say the android scene is dying. Sure OEM profitability is, but that really has no effect on my enjoyment of the product. Didnt android just reach like 1 billion installs? Just like how Windows OEM low profitability does not have any effect on my use of their products. I would even argue it is a good thing because costs for the consumer go down. It feels like everyone always evaluates Apple from an investors perspective. I really can't care less, I don't own Apple stock.

Quite frankly, the fact that Apple makes so much money leads me to avoid paying them if at all possible.

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you nailed it, but the theme of this thread is an economical one.

also, please compare windows oem pc to current mac line up. thats exactly whats gonna happen with android. absolutely no innovation, just the race to the bottom.

it must be hard for someone to comprehend this, but for example, fundamental principal of my country's contractual law is the bona fidei principle. it says, among other stuff, that you should enter contractual relationships bearing in mind both yours and the second party interests.

from that standpoint, at least in my humble opinion, buying smartphones at break even prices is not only highly immoral, but arguably illegal and is often a basis for contract termination.

its a sad world when people dont see beyond their own wallets.

looking at your post (you mentioned yourself at least 10 times in your post), and many others in this forum, i got an idea. maybe we should determine an anti-ego day. that day, not one single sentence should begin with an I. what do you think?

maybe it should be this day, the day the music died?

I7guy said:

So you base who you buy from based on what you deem to be excessive profits? Interesting?

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Yes, there is a bit of the 'dont contribute to the man' vibe for me

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beosound3200 said:

you nailed it, but the theme of this thread is an economical one.

also, please compare windows oem pc to current mac line up. thats exactly whats gonna happen with android. absolutely no innovation, just the race to the bottom.

it must be hard for someone to comprehend this, but for example, fundamental principal of my country's contractual law is the bona fidei principle. it says, among other stuff, that you should enter contractual relationships bearing in mind both yours and the second party interests.

from that standpoint, at least in my humble opinion, buying smartphones at break even prices is not only highly immoral, but arguably illegal and is often a basis for contract termination.

its a sad world when people dont see beyond their own wallets.

looking at your post (you mentioned yourself at least 10 times in your post), and many others in this forum, i got an idea. maybe we should determine an anti-ego day. that day, not one single sentence should begin with an I. what do you think?

maybe it should be this day, the day the music died?

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IMO windows PCs are showing more innovation than Mac lineups currently with touchscreens, new form factors. Mac is relatively unchanged, just thinner

You have an interesting viewpoint regarding buying at break-even. To what extent is excess profit margin immoral? The pendulum has to swing both ways. Nobody has Apple's profit margins

The seeing beyond my own wallet comment is a little unfair I'd rather support some small local business over the well oiled apple machine, for example (but I can't do that with tech products really). I also paid $650 for my android phone, so I didnt buy it at break even anyway.

The reason I refer to myself so much is to make it clear these are my opinions and I am not conveying them as generic facts. Sorry if that comes across as ego centric

gotluck said:

IMO windows PCs are showing more innovation than Mac lineups currently with touchscreens, new form factors. Mac is relatively unchanged.

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depends on the meaning of innovation. touchscreen on a desktop isnt a innovation, its 'throw it at the wall and see what sticks' M.O.

bearing that in mind, i would propose a different formula for innovation.

innovation is a segment of the product that stays with it until a said segment is improved upon. in other words, if hp desktop has touchscreen in 2012, but the touchscreen itself is removed from 2014 model because of lack of interest, thats not innovation.

to condense it further - meaningful innovation.

from that standpoint, windows consumer pc is dead and like android is thriving only in low end. high end is being dominated by apple.

gotluck said:

You have an interesting viewpoint regarding buying at break-even. To what extent is excess profit margin immoral? The pendulum has to swing both ways.

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absolutely.

as long as concrete contractual obligations arent making one party bankrupt (like it does for android oems), it should stay both legal and moral.

gotluck said:

The reason I refer to myself so much is to make it clear these are my opinions and I am not conveying them as facts. Sorry if that comes across as ego centric

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its not about facts or opinions, its about standpoint.

your arguing is defined by the country you live in, ideological barriers, amount of money you have, amount of money you make, society and culture you live in, your peers, etc. and thats not fair for the discussion.

in other words, your opinion of, eg. iphone, shouldnt be changed at all by the facts of you being rich or poor, white black, first, second or third world, but thats purely idealistic.

sometimes, i just wish people would free themselves of being the slave to their own everyday situation and be more objective, aware of our collective existence.

iphone isnt worse from opo because of the price, its because of eg. its screen, software etc.

money is just a condition for someone to give smth to you, its not a fundamental characteristic of a phone. that sort of objectivity is what im talking about.

i expected hardcore fanboy response, but got the complete opposite. youre a nice guy

Haha, I hear you - but price just has to be a factor in someway

If it wasn't, youre damn right I would have a 128gig iphone 6 plus, but I can't justify that and it really comes down to price. that extra $400 will go to my sons college fund instead.

I wish money was no object, but your aspirations for comparisons here are a little utopian for me

gotluck said:

Haha, I hear you - but price just has to be a factor in someway

If it wasn't, youre damn right I would have a 128gig iphone 6 plus, but I can't justify that and it really comes down to price. that extra $400 will go to my sons college fund instead.

I wish money was no object, but your aspirations for comparisons here are a little utopian for me

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A little?

gotluck said:

Haha, I hear you - but price just has to be a factor in someway

If it wasn't, youre damn right I would have a 128gig iphone 6 plus, but I can't justify that and it really comes down to price. that extra $400 will go to my sons college fund instead.

I wish money was no object, but your aspirations for comparisons here are a little utopian for me

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If anybody says they can't justify an iPhone because of its price, I don't think anybody can argue against that. They are expensive and I feel the same about other products. I would never pay through the nose to watch sport on cable and feel the money could be spent better elsewhere. If people feel that way about s phone then I am fully behind them. We get what we like and can justify at the end of the day.

beosound3200 said:

also, please compare windows oem pc to current mac line up. thats exactly whats gonna happen with android. absolutely no innovation, just the race to the bottom.

Click to expand...

beosound3200 said:

depends on the meaning of innovation. touchscreen on a desktop isnt a innovation, its 'throw it at the wall and see what sticks' M.O.

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And then the contradiction

beosound3200 said:

sometimes, i just wish people would free themselves of being the slave to their own everyday situation and be more objective, aware of our collective existence.

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Oletros said:

Saying that they didn't released a big screen until done right means that the others are not doing it right.

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yes, he meant exclusively thinness.

most of android phones were and still are a bit bulky.

beosound3200 said:

yes, he meant exclusively thinness.

most of android phones were and still are a bit bulky.

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Do some research first. There are plenty of Android phones that are thinner than the iphone. Google is your friend.......

jamezr said:

Do some research first. There are plenty of Android phones that are thinner than the iphone. Google is your friend.......

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did i say there werent?

now, check top three high end android phones (flagships) by popularity and compare their thickness with iphone 6

beosound3200 said:

did i say there werent?

now, check top three high end android phones (flagships) by popularity and compare their thickness with iphone 6

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not what you said.....

most of android phones were and still are a bit bulky.

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Nothing on thinness based on popularity. Thats is not what your original statement was about. There are plenty of Android phones that are thinner and less bulky than the iphone.

[MOD NOTE]
I think the discussion here has been beaten to death.