Spoilers What's on TV?

vrDrew · Feb 26, 2015

Huntn said:
And Downton Abbey- sometimes I'm amazed at how much emotion they can ring out of this story. Next week is the Season 5 final!

As good as Downton Abbey was in its first few seasons, don't you think the storyline has jumped the shark at this point?

Does Julian Fellowes have some sort of sadistic bent towards Mr & Mrs Bates? Does it really seem plausible that the Metropolitan Police would be investigating the traffic death of a rapist/butler more thoroughly than the Warren Commission looked into events in Dallas?

How stupid do we have to believe Lord Grantham is, to have taken this long to finally twig to the fact that his middle daughter is paying an awful lot of attention to a random orphan toddler?

Don't get me wrong, Downton Abbey is still good television. But IMHO they should have let the story end with the death of Matthew Crawley. And saved up all their creative energy to do a reboot set in 1943, when the family is thrown (again) into turmoil when 2nd Lt George Crawley (the presumptive heir) is killed at Anzio? Or better yet, set in 1948 when - with income tax at 19/6 in the Pound the family finances finally crumble beneath the inexorable tide of history?

Huntn · Feb 26, 2015

vrDrew said:
As good as Downton Abbey was in its first few seasons, don't you think the storyline has jumped the shark at this point?

Does Julian Fellowes have some sort of sadistic bent towards Mr & Mrs Bates? Does it really seem plausible that the Metropolitan Police would be investigating the traffic death of a rapist/butler more thoroughly than the Warren Commission looked into events in Dallas?

How stupid do we have to believe Lord Grantham is, to have taken this long to finally twig to the fact that his middle daughter is paying an awful lot of attention to a random orphan toddler?

Don't get me wrong, Downton Abbey is still good television. But IMHO they should have let the story end with the death of Matthew Crawley. And saved up all their creative energy to do a reboot set in 1943, when the family is thrown (again) into turmoil when 2nd Lt George Crawley (the presumptive heir) is killed at Anzio? Or better yet, set in 1948 when - with income tax at 19/6 in the Pound the family finances finally crumble beneath the inexorable tide of history?

I'm not going to argue because you are right on many points except nothing ridiculous has yet happened. The story was admittedly dragging a bit until I found interest in the most recent episode.

FieldingMellish · Feb 26, 2015

I enjoyed earlier Downton Abby episodes more for my utter enchantment upon discovery of it using what was a new PBS app. I was a little dismayed how quickly the years progressed with each season. While some story lines have gone tedious, others have surprised, and there remains consistent subtle character interactions that lend a sense of familial familiarity. Not unlike radically different shows many loved such as The Wire characters.

vrDrew · Feb 27, 2015

Huntn said:
The story was admittedly dragging a bit until I found interest in the most recent episode.

There is still a lot that is very good and enjoyable about Downton Abbey.

It was quite refreshing to, for instance, to see another side of Thomas. Who knew that he was so wise to the ways of crooked London gambling clubs?

But I can't quite get away from the suspicion that Lady Rose MacClare (soon-to-be Aldridge) is really the Cousin Oliver of the Crawley clan?

Scepticalscribe · Feb 27, 2015

Huntn said:
And Downton Abbey- sometimes I'm amazed at how much emotion they can ring out of this story. Next week is the Season 5 final!

Enjoy.

vrDrew said:
As good as Downton Abbey was in its first few seasons, don't you think the storyline has jumped the shark at this point?

Does Julian Fellowes have some sort of sadistic bent towards Mr & Mrs Bates? Does it really seem plausible that the Metropolitan Police would be investigating the traffic death of a rapist/butler more thoroughly than the Warren Commission looked into events in Dallas?

How stupid do we have to believe Lord Grantham is, to have taken this long to finally twig to the fact that his middle daughter is paying an awful lot of attention to a random orphan toddler?

Don't get me wrong, Downton Abbey is still good television. But IMHO they should have let the story end with the death of Matthew Crawley. And saved up all their creative energy to do a reboot set in 1943, when the family is thrown (again) into turmoil when 2nd Lt George Crawley (the presumptive heir) is killed at Anzio? Or better yet, set in 1948 when - with income tax at 19/6 in the Pound the family finances finally crumble beneath the inexorable tide of history?

I'm laughing at your post because much of what you have written is spot on, and - broadly speaking - I find myself in agreement with it.

Huntn said:
I'm not going to argue because you are right on many points except nothing ridiculous has yet happened. The story was admittedly dragging a bit until I found interest in the most recent episode.

The thing about Downton Abbey is that it is not history, and is not even seriously credible as such, and nor does it really pretend to be. It is entertainment - and superbly done, because it has managed to successfully fuse a few genres which are each, individually, staples of classic British entertainment.

It has taken the 'country house' setting (usually found in Agatha Christie type stories), the elements of dramas that focussed on class and social and political change (such as the old 'Upstairs Downstairs'), period dramas (none do them better than British television), soap opera story lines, a stellar cast who are clearly enjoying the ensemble element of the series, as you find in theatre or soap opera, a bottomless budget so that the settings and trappings are a flawless feats for the eyes, and added some decently interesting story lines and character arcs, and fused the lot together. How can it not work, then?

FieldingMellish said:
I enjoyed earlier Downton Abby episodes more for my utter enchantment upon discovery of it using what was a new PBS app. I was a little dismayed how quickly the years progressed with each season. While some story lines have gone tedious, others have surprised, and there remains consistent subtle character interactions that lend a sense of familial familiarity. Not unlike radically different shows many loved such as The Wire characters.

vrDrew said:
There is still a lot that is very good and enjoyable about Downton Abbey.

It was quite refreshing to, for instance, to see another side of Thomas. Who knew that he was so wise to the ways of crooked London gambling clubs?

But I can't quite get away from the suspicion that Lady Rose MacClare (soon-to-be Aldridge) is really the Cousin Oliver of the Crawley clan?

No, I suspect that she answers a different need: With the three sisters more or less accounted for in the marital sense (although Lady Mary's ongoing saga with brand new suitors is a recurring theme), one had to introduce a fresh-faced young girl to showcase the whole courtship stuff in the postwar world - contrasting that with the original pre World War 1 setting of the first series.

Huntn · Mar 1, 2015

Five episodes into House of Cards US version, Season 1. Pretty darn good. There is an acting expertise difference between this and something like Helix or The Last Ship.

Huntn · Mar 2, 2015

Downton Abbey- Season Five finale, a calm ending to the season, and I'm satisfied, however if you want to describe it as a resolution for the Bates, it was muddled and I won't be happy if the writers insist on dragging it out for another season

takao · Mar 2, 2015

Huntn said:
Five episodes into House of Cards US version, Season 1. Pretty darn good. There is an acting expertise difference between this and something like Helix or The Last Ship.

haha that's like calling the difference between the premier league and me trying to kick the ball in the backyard a "playing expertise difference"

Helix & the last ship are quite entertaining but sure are miles away in terms of acting and cinematography.

Just a few months when after watching an episode of "Extant" after an episode of "halt and catch fire". The difference was hilarious.
Just like other series like mad men, the americans etc. also make watching some other series difficult right afterwards.

Scepticalscribe · Mar 2, 2015

Huntn said:
Downton Abbey- Season Five finale, a calm ending to the season, and I'm satisfied, however if you want to describe it as a resolution for the Bates, it was muddled and I won't be happy if the writers insist on dragging it out for another season

But how can you see them not doing exactly that? The temptation to do so will be well nigh irresistible.

Huntn · Mar 2, 2015

takao said:
haha that's like calling the difference between the premier league and me trying to kick the ball in the backyard a "playing expertise difference"

Helix & the last ship are quite entertaining but sure are miles away in terms of acting and cinematography.

Just a few months when after watching an episode of "Extant" after an episode of "halt and catch fire". The difference was hilarious.
Just like other series like mad men, the americans etc. also make watching some other series difficult right afterwards.

Agreed!

Huntn · Mar 2, 2015

Scepticalscribe said:
But how can you see them not doing exactly that? The temptation to do so will be well nigh irresistible.

It could be realistic, but it would make for bad TV. I think followers of the series are ready to move on to the next plot point, not dragging this out any further. Any idea of how far the next season will jump ahead?

Scepticalscribe · Mar 2, 2015

Huntn said:
It could be realistic, but it would make for bad TV. I think followers of the series are ready to move on to the next plot point, not dragging this out any further. Any idea of how far the next season will jump ahead?

They'll have to find a way to give it some resolution as it has been a feature of the series for the past two seasons.

Re the timeline and when the next season will be set, as of now, I have no idea, but I imagine that it will leap forward in time perhaps as much as a year. Series Five took the show to December 1924.

ritmomundo · Mar 2, 2015

Huntn said:
Five episodes into House of Cards US version, Season 1. Pretty darn good. There is an acting expertise difference between this and something like Helix or The Last Ship.

For the first 4ish episodes of HoC, I had no idea what was going on, or what the point of the show was. But it was around then, maybe the 5th or 6th episode, that it finally came together for me. And man, it's been a crazy ride since.

I just started Season 3, and at this pace, I'll probably be done with it by the end of the week. The first two seasons more or less followed the general story of the original BBC series, so I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how close/far this one goes.

Huntn · Mar 3, 2015

Scepticalscribe said:
They'll have to find a way to give it some resolution as it has been a feature of the series for the past two seasons.

Re the timeline and when the next season will be set, as of now, I have no idea, but I imagine that it will leap forward in time perhaps as much as a year. Series Five took the show to December 1924.

That's what I was getting at. If they jump ahead a year, then the matter could easily be resolved and mentioned in passing. I'd be happy if the police either throw in the towel, or convict her and be done with it. Another season of tension based on this issue serves to stagnate the flow of the story, unless most fans like dwelling on this. I'm ready to move on.

ritmomundo said:
For the first 4ish episodes of HoC, I had no idea what was going on, or what the point of the show was. But it was around then, maybe the 5th or 6th episode, that it finally came together for me. And man, it's been a crazy ride since.

I just started Season 3, and at this pace, I'll probably be done with it by the end of the week. The first two seasons more or less followed the general story of the original BBC series, so I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how close/far this one goes.

House of Cards Spoiler Follows

The Peter Russo turn of events disturbed me. I did not think it was that kind of a show with that kind of a character, but now I know. I'm still watching.

Scepticalscribe · Mar 3, 2015

Huntn said:
That's what I was getting at. If they jump ahead a year, then the matter could easily be resolved and mentioned in passing. I'd be happy if the police either throw in the towel, or convict her and be done with it. Another season of tension based on this issue serves to stagnate the flow of the story, unless most fans like dwelling on this. I'm ready to move on.

Hm. I'm not so sure.

Having invested so much time (over two full series) in this story, I think it would be seen as a sort of narrative cop out if the resolution did not take place within the wider story during the actual series rather than as a briefly alluded to aside in passing, during, say, the first episode of a new series.

There are other matters to consider, too.

The origin series was meant to run for three seasons, and has now run for five. There are rumours - a little stronger than usual - which suggest that series six may well be the last. If that is indeed the case, it makes sense to wrap up story lines properly and bring them to a satisfying and complete conclusion. Therefore, if it is the last season of the show, genuinely, I think it reasonable to expect that there may be some drama to be mined from some of those stories, that of the perennially unfortunate Mr & Mrs Bates, not least.

Moreover, again, there are rumours that some long serving cast members may not wish to stay around forever. Tom Branson (Allen Leech) has already left, (although - as his character emigrated rather than died, he can be re-introduced to the series should he wish to pay it a fleeting visit).

However, in this instance, the rumour mill is focused on Dame Maggie Smith (Lady Violet) who has remarked acidly that her character 'must be around 110 now, and cannot be expected to live forever'. While there were rumours a few years ago about Dame Maggie Smith's continued presence in the show, I'd give them a little more credence this time around.

Huntn · Mar 3, 2015

Scepticalscribe said:
Hm. I'm not so sure.

Having invested so much time (over two full series) in this story, I think it would be seen as a sort of narrative cop out if the resolution did not take place within the wider story during the actual series rather than as a briefly alluded to aside in passing, during, say, the first episode of a new series.

There are other matters to consider, too.

The origin series was meant to run for three seasons, and has now run for five. There are rumours - a little stronger than usual - which suggest that series six may well be the last. If that is indeed the case, it makes sense to wrap up story lines properly and bring them to a satisfying and complete conclusion. Therefore, if it is the last season of the show, genuinely, I think it reasonable to expect that there may be some drama to be mined from some of those stories, that of the perennially unfortunate Mr & Mrs Bates, not least.

Moreover, again, there are rumours that some long serving cast members may not wish to stay around forever. Tom Branson (Allen Leech) has already left, (although - as his character emigrated rather than died, he can be re-introduced to the series should he wish to pay it a fleeting visit).

However, in this instance, the rumour mill is focused on Dame Maggie Smith (Lady Violet) who has remarked acidly that her character 'must be around 110 now, and cannot be expected to live forever'. While there were rumours a few years ago about Dame Maggie Smith's continued presence in the show, I'd give them a little more credence this time around.

Well, I've stated my desires if the producers were listening.

Lol, that's funny about Lady Violet. She gets about quite well.

Scepticalscribe · Mar 3, 2015

Huntn said:
Well, I've stated my desires if the producers were listening. Lol, that's funny about Lady Violet. She gets about quite well.

I think that she is brilliant, and the show will have lost one of its genuinely important core characters if she decides that it is time for her (and her character) to move on.

Actually, one of the story arcs (a more subtle one, it is true) that I have really enjoyed over the past few years is the gradual blossoming of the genuine - if reluctant - friendship (and the portrayal of same) between the wonderful Penelope Wilton's educated and idealistic, middle class (Cousin Isobel [Crawley]) and that of Dame Maggie Smith's superbly acerbic, aristocratic Lady Violet.

Huntn · Mar 3, 2015

Scepticalscribe said:
I think that she is brilliant, and the show will have lost one of its genuinely important core characters if she decides that it is time for her (and her character) to move on.

Actually, one of the story arcs (a more subtle one, it is true) that I have really enjoyed over the past few years is the gradual blossoming of the genuine - if reluctant - friendship (and the portrayal of same) between the wonderful Penelope Wilton's educated and idealistic, middle class (Cousin Isobel [Crawley]) and that of Dame Maggie Smith's superbly acerbic, aristocratic Lady Violet.

Me too. I remember her (Penelope Wilton) in Shawn of the Dead, lol.

And I'm happy the Mr. Barrow is not so hate-able this season as he seems to have evolved to a more sympathetic character.

Huntn · Mar 3, 2015

House of Cards (US), Season 2 Episode 1- ... bad habits are hard to break.

(Please post no spoilers without spoiler tags.)

Scepticalscribe · Mar 4, 2015

I'm already suffering from serious withdrawal symptoms following the conclusion to the BBC TV series 'Wolf Hall' (which was, in practice, the first two books, namely 'Wolf Hall' and 'Bring Up The Bodies' merged together).

(This side of The Pond, it aired on Wednesdays, and any follow up or sequel will have to wait for Hilary Mantel to publish the final book in the series, 'The Mirror and the Light' which may not appear until next year).

When does it air in the US?

D.T. · Mar 4, 2015

Huntn said:
something like Helix

I watched the first EP of Helix, it was moderately interesting, and I read that the show was pretty compelling up to the last couple of episodes then it apparently just drove off a bridge. A 180º that completely undid the character motivations and logic.

It was mostly a B/B+ on the AVClub, had a couple of A- EPs, then episode 12, D, and 13 (the season finale), F - and AVC doesn't really do Fs, so it must have been an epic meltdown.

I actually haven't read any spoilers, I almost want to experience it for myself

BTW, I shot you a PM

Huntn · Mar 4, 2015

D.T. said:
I watched the first EP of Helix, it was moderately interesting, and I read that the show was pretty compelling up to the last couple of episodes then it apparently just drove off a bridge. A 180º that completely undid the character motivations and logic.

It was mostly a B/B+ on the AVClub, had a couple of A- EPs, then episode 12, D, and 13 (the season finale), F - and AVC doesn't really do Fs, so it must have been an epic meltdown.

I actually haven't read any spoilers, I almost want to experience it for myself

BTW, I shot you a PM

Sorry, I did not mean to ignore your PM. Thanks and answered. When Helix first came on (Season 1) the concept was very intriguing. However the story, the way it progressed, the acting which might be more an issue with the script and direction was not up to my minimum standards. The woman-in-charge who appeared at the facility was unbelievable. The second season seems to have changed the setting drastically, but since I pulled the plug, I've not gone back to see if it's any better.

Huntn · Mar 12, 2015

Nature: Leave It To The Beavers▶ 52:58
Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9_1FYtycL8

Nature is a most outstanding PBS series I've watched over the years. Beavers are described as a keystone species having a significant impact on the ecosystem where they reside. I watched on Netflix.

D.T. · Mar 12, 2015

Huntn said:
Nature: Leave It To The Beavers▶ 52:58
Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9_1FYtycL8

Nature is a most outstanding PBS series I've watched over the years. Beavers are described as a keystone species having a significant impact on the ecosystem where they reside. I watched on Netflix.

View attachment 534402

Great doc - I was really surprised at the high number of fatal beaver attacks on humans ever year.

Huntn · Mar 12, 2015

D.T. said:
Great doc - I was really surprised at the high number of fatal beaver attacks on humans ever year.

You must be thinking of rabbit attacks...

Spoilers What's on TV?

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