Goodbye Apple. It's been a fun ride.

snowmoon · Mar 31, 2015

I'm right on the cusp of this as well. Aging desktop and laptops in the house need to be replaced and I've been waiting to see what direction OSX takes. I said something more than a year ago and Apple continues to prove me right, much to my disappointment. The novelty of free upgrades wore off quick as they broke as many things as they fixed. My work and home OSX systems are still on 10.9 for that reason.

Short of their "Pro" hardware, Apple is becoming an iPhone accessory company.

I like iOS and I have several devices, but it's not nearly as open or extensive enough to replace a regular OS for me. I have gone for months using an iPad alone, but I found myself getting locked into patterns and locked out of workflows that were more efficient.

I could go on with the changes in TCO, but needless to say I'm in the market for new hardware and Apple is not high on my list. My go-to hardware for the last year has been a $200 chromebook which rocks.

Tinmania · Mar 31, 2015

jimmirehman said:
most likely since the issues are across all of your machines and no one else on the planet is experiencing the same problems

So you have interviewed everyone on the planet? This is as bad as "fine, go buy something else" as a response to someone who just did buy something else.

Michael

motrek · Mar 31, 2015

Tinmania said:
So you have interviewed everyone on the planet? This is as bad as "fine, go buy something else" as a response to someone who just did buy something else.
...

I'm not the poster but I understand the sentiment.

The people who say OS X is a disaster and crashes all the time and never works right are clearly having an abnormal experience, and it's worth trying to diagnose the problem instead of just being angry at OS X or Apple. There are plenty of people who use Macs and OS X and basically have no problems with either.

fletch33 · Mar 31, 2015

jimmirehman said:
all my kids of macbooks and my youngest has my old 2008 iMac, all of them work flawlessly. Ive been with Apple since the OS 7.5 days, I've experienced maybe 5 grey screen kernal panics since OS X debuted and theyve all been due to shoddy third party software companies trying to cut corners with programming. Enjoy Windows, i hope it works out for you.

this a GREAT point! not to put the tech challenged adults in the "kids" category but if my parents or my tech challenged neighbor asked me about a new computer to buy i still wave high the Apple flag.

there are too many options and areas for problems for a non-tech on Windows and i would be the one they would turn to when something happens. Apple makes this type of persons life much easier.

when posting on here i always speak like i am talking to a little more tech savy crowd and didnt address that group.

i do the same with my kids and they have the Amazon Fire HD's because they offer a Kids Mode that keeps them away from "important stuff" and it just works.

Y So Jelly · Mar 31, 2015

The main things I like about Apple are the build quality, PCIe SSD, parts availability, and overall silkiness of OSX. Windows runs hot.

If I was in the market I would be eyeing the Thinkpad T450S with the B&N Gold discount. For $850 I get a 1080P IPS display, carbon/magnesium build, industry-leading keyboard travel, user upgradeable RAM to 20GB (up to 8GB dual channel, for some stupid reason the X250 is single channel only), Broadwell I5, and three user-upgradeable harddrive bays w/ included 16GB SSD/500GB hybrid. Adding a third drive M.2 512GB GB SSD myself would be around $250 (yes it is not the same as PCIe). I could boot Linux on the 16 GB drive and run Winblows on the rest.

Damnit, I've thought too far.. back to enjoying my smooth scrolling and battery life.

motrek · Mar 31, 2015

Y So Jelly said:
The main things I like about Apple are the build quality, PCIe SSD, parts availability, and overall silkiness of OSX. Windows runs hot.

If I was in the market I would be eyeing the Thinkpad T450S with the B&N Gold discount. For $850 I get a 1080P IPS display, carbon/magnesium build, industry-leading keyboard travel, user upgradeable RAM to 20GB (up to 8GB dual channel, for some stupid reason the X250 is single channel only), Broadwell I5, and three user-upgradeable harddrive bays w/ included 16GB SSD/500GB hybrid. Adding a third drive M.2 512GB GB SSD myself would be around $250 (yes it is not the same as PCIe). I could boot Linux on the 16 GB drive and run Winblows on the rest.

Damnit, I've thought too far.. back to enjoying my smooth scrolling and battery life.

Just looked this one up. Sounds like a nice laptop. I might recommend it to friends looking for a PC laptop. But the footprint is 30% bigger than my 11" MBA, it weighs 50% more, and it's a lot thicker. The thing I love about my MBA is that if I'm going somewhere I can just yank it off the MagSafe cable, throw it in my backpack and carry it wherever without giving it a second thought. And when I'm using it, I instinctively just balance it on a knee or do whatever's comfortable because it's so small and light. I don't think I would do any of this if I had the ThinkPad.

Y So Jelly · Mar 31, 2015

motrek said:
Just looked this one up. Sounds like a nice laptop. I might recommend it to friends looking for a PC laptop. But the footprint is 30% bigger than my 11" MBA, it weighs 50% more, and it's a lot thicker. The thing I love about my MBA is that if I'm going somewhere I can just yank it off the MagSafe cable, throw it in my backpack and carry it wherever without giving it a second thought. And when I'm using it, I instinctively just balance it on a knee or do whatever's comfortable because it's so small and light. I don't think I would do any of this if I had the ThinkPad.

Yup that ThinkPad is closer to a 13" MBP in footprint. For me, it's not a big deal coming from my 13" Air trading a bit of portability for power but everyone's wants/needs/tolerances are different.

Honestly not sure what is comparable to the package of an Air 11"; then again I've never shopped that category.

MRrainer · Apr 1, 2015

Y So Jelly said:
Yup that ThinkPad is closer to a 13" MBP in footprint. For me, it's not a big deal coming from my 13" Air trading a bit of portability for power but everyone's wants/needs/tolerances are different.

Honestly not sure what is comparable to the package of an Air 11"; then again I've never shopped that category.

HP EliteBook Revolve 810 G2+G3 and Dell Latitude 7204 (Latitude-Rugged-Extreme-Series) seem to pop up in that categorie (based on the online-shop of a big retailer here).
Both considerably more expensive than a MBA.

OTOH, you can get 14" displays with the same resultion as the 11" MBA....

The MBA is unique in its categorie.

Toltepeceno · Apr 1, 2015

OK, I'll bite. Point me to a mac equivalent that costs less than this. More than twice the price maybe. $1090.28 us.

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8650-clevo-p650sa-p-7847.html

4th Generation Intel® Mobile Core i7-4720HQ Haswell Processor
Intel® HM87 Chipset (quad)

NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 965M GDDR5 (2.0GB) w/ Optimus™ Technology

15" macbook pro at 2 grand has no discreet graphics, 2500 one has a weak one.

I ran dos and then every windows version since then and now yosemite I have not had this much problems since windows 98. Sitting and staring at the spinning beach ball, sluggish, reboot every few hours. This is far worse than windows, even on the 09 dell laptop I replaced. I'm surprised, but I like the way yosemite looks but osx is in no way more stable than windows. I like osx, but stability is no reason to choose it and neither is hardware price.

joshlalonde said:
I have no clue what any of you are talking about.
I brought a band new MacBook at LESS than the price of a Windows equivalent.

I don't think you guys know what equivalent means.
Oh, I can get a dedicated GPU and 8GB RAM, and a 1TB Harddrive for only $500. Ha, Macs are expensive.

WRONG. That is not equivalent.

Hard-drives are not the same as Solid-state drives, first of all. Those alone can raise the price by $200-300 or more. And even if a super-fast hard-drive has comparable speeds to a SSD (which I don't think you'll find very often), it still takes up more energy and makes noise.

You're also forgetting that the MBA's battery life is exceptional. There are a number of reasons for this. One, the CPU runs at a low clock speed until otherwise needed. Second, the SSD. Third, great cooling (through the aluminum), etc etc.

It's a really well designed device, and it's very light.

So, does your $500 laptop have an SSD, battery life longer than 10 hours, as well as all the other bells and whistles?
If you want 'equivalent' PC's, think Surface Pro 3, Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro, Acer Aspire s7, etc. SP3 had cooling problems so it wouldn't be good enough. Yoga 2 pro was more expensive and the keyboard sucked. Aspire wasn't worth it either.

Sigh, now you're going to think I'm a fanboy. Let me clarify, I'm someone who invested in a Macbook and I'm not going to have someone tell me that I wasted money. I got exactly what I wanted and more. I won't deny it wasn't cheap, but that doesn't mean I would get anything better with the Microsoft logo on it.

Oh, and back to what I was going to say before. I haven't had any of the WiFi issues, no Yosemite bugs of any sorts, and I've had a great OS experience. But, obviously people have had issues. Either way, I'll take Yosemite over Windows 10 any day.

hagar · Apr 1, 2015

I completely understand you. I switched from XP to OS X 10.4 Tiger. Very impressed with it and never looked back. Until last year.

iOS 8 is still not where we were in terms of stability of iOS 6. And Yosemite is just a mess. Pretty, but a mess. Very unresponsive on my Macbook Pro 2014. And lot's and lot's of bugs. I just hope 10.10.03 finally makes it more usable.

My only wish is that iOS 9 and OS X 10.11 don't introduce a single new feature but rather focus on streamlining my Apple experience.

(Oh: and get rid of the horrible ugly notification centers in both OS versions: what a waste of screen estate).

motrek · Apr 1, 2015

Toltepeceno said:
OK, I'll bite. Point me to a mac equivalent that costs less than this. More than twice the price maybe. $1090.28 us.
...

What in the world are you "biting"?

We were talking about laptops comparable to the 11" MBA and you post a link to a laptop that weighs more than twice as much and is literally more than 4 times bigger.

Your comparison almost literally could not be worse.

Toltepeceno · Apr 1, 2015

Clearly you did not read and actually understsanding the post I replied to. He said macbook and macs, he did not designate air which left it open and I did a comparison of the sager to a macbook pro which is very valid. He was clearly talking about macs in general.

I brought a band new MacBook at LESS than the price of a Windows equivalent.

Oh, I can get a dedicated GPU and 8GB RAM, and a 1TB Harddrive for only $500. Ha, Macs are expensive.

This sager vs a macbook pro (or any other mac) costing 2000.00 and 2400.00 so you are falsely saying my comparison is somehow incorrect? When he made a general comment about macs? Clearly logic is eluding you. My comparison is dead on and your comprehension is nil. I did NOT compare it to an air, how many 200.00 and 2400.00 airs do you know of?

i replied to the person I quoted, not you, and by macbook and macs he left it open. Don't like it then don't read it, just stick to the posts full of apple praise if you get ******** by posts of people living in the real world.

I have nothing more to say to those that falsify what was said in their posts. Adios. I won't be able to read any more of your posts.

edit: Want to get ******** over someone mentioning other than air's in this thread (macs)? Start with the guy I replied to otherwise it's just fanboyism.

motrek said:
What in the world are you "biting"?

We were talking about laptops comparable to the 11" MBA and you post a link to a laptop that weighs more than twice as much and is literally more than 4 times bigger.

Your comparison almost literally could not be worse.

Toltepeceno · Apr 1, 2015

Tinmania said:
So you have interviewed everyone on the planet? This is as bad as "fine, go buy something else" as a response to someone who just did buy something else.

Michael

I was not interviewed, I get the beach ball, plus unresponsiveness, a lot. I have seen quite a few posts of happening with yosemite. I am waiting for 10.10.3 and I ordered a samsung evo 850 250gb this morning to have forwarded to me:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OAJ412U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It pisses me off to no end that I have to spend more money to make it useable, but I won't be getting anything else for another year or so. Hopefully things will change and I will enjoy osx more by then but so far it's by far more laggy and unresponsive than windows comparing clean install to clean install. I do like the ui though.

I'm guessing that after I get the ssd and put it in I may enjoy it.

AleXXXa · Apr 1, 2015

I'll give apple one more chance. I'll wait for the new OS X, if it will be buggy and slow as everything they released after SL i'll switch back to windows. By that time Win10 will probably be out and i'll buy the next SurfacePro, which will replace the mb "pro" and ipad i currently have.

It really was a fun ride in the Tiger to SL years. Not so much now.

----------

Y So Jelly said:
The main things I like about Apple are the build quality, PCIe SSD, parts availability, and overall silkiness of OSX. Windows runs hot.

Windows runs hot? Have you tried 8.1 or are you talking about XP? If anything, my macbook runs more hot than every pc laptop/tablet i tried recently, even when watching a youtube video in 1080p. Which is sad for a ~$2k "pro" machine.

Damnit, I've thought too far.. back to enjoying my smooth scrolling and battery life.

Smooth scrolling? Where? You probably don't have a retina screen, there's no such thing as smooth scrolling on a mac with retina.

----------

ptdebate said:
Just my two cents:

The worst version of OS X is stabler than the best version of Windows. I've used 'em all.

The worst modern version of OS X is Lion by far. The best version of Windows is Win 7 or 8.1. Are you telling me that Lion is more stable? LOL. Even Win10 Preview is more stable than Lion.

joshlalonde · Apr 2, 2015

One word. SSD.
Another word. Battery?
Third. If I wanted a 10-pound gaming computer, I'd get a desktop.

Toltepeceno said:
OK, I'll bite. Point me to a mac equivalent that costs less than this. More than twice the price maybe. $1090.28 us.

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8650-clevo-p650sa-p-7847.html

4th Generation Intel® Mobile Core i7-4720HQ Haswell Processor
Intel® HM87 Chipset (quad)

NVIDIA® GeForce GTX 965M GDDR5 (2.0GB) w/ Optimus Technology

15" macbook pro at 2 grand has no discreet graphics, 2500 one has a weak one.

I ran dos and then every windows version since then and now yosemite I have not had this much problems since windows 98. Sitting and staring at the spinning beach ball, sluggish, reboot every few hours. This is far worse than windows, even on the 09 dell laptop I replaced. I'm surprised, but I like the way yosemite looks but osx is in no way more stable than windows. I like osx, but stability is no reason to choose it and neither is hardware price.

Toltepeceno · Apr 2, 2015

joshlalonde said:
One word. SSD.
Another word. Battery?
Third. If I wanted a 10-pound gaming computer, I'd get a desktop.

It's 5.5 pounds (with upgradable memory, processor, graphics card. Two hard drive spots with a dvd that could be used for a third drive it even has an option for adapter.) compared to apple's 4.5 pound mac pro so stop being dishonest. It makes nothing you say worth listening to. There are reasons to buy mac, I did, but price is by far not one of them. Adios, no need to read your posts.

So your saying you need an ssd to make yosemite run right? Then it doesn't just work. Battery? NO.

It also has nothing to do with what weight YOU want, it has to do with the generic mac comments you made. Mac's ARE expensive especially outside of the air class, no getting around it. You have to hit 2 grand just to get a quad core.

motrek · Apr 2, 2015

Toltepeceno said:
Clearly you did not read and actually understsanding the post I replied to. He said macbook and macs, he did not designate air which left it open and I did a comparison of the sager to a macbook pro which is very valid. He was clearly talking about macs in general.
...

Sure I did, here is the relevant quote:

"I brought a band new MacBook at LESS than the price of a Windows equivalent."

Josh is saying that the MacBook he bought, i.e., one particular MacBook, costs less than a Windows equivalent to that particular MacBook.

He did not say that every possible model of MacBook costs less than every single comparable PC laptop.

Being in Mexico I will assume your native language is not English so maybe this nuance was overlooked. Not a big deal.

ET iPhone Home · Apr 2, 2015

Bah-bye, see you soon.

QCassidy352 · Apr 3, 2015

No idea what these supposed stability issues are with macs; I've never seen nor had them. Then again, my better half and I are both still running Mavericks. Yosemite is bad news.

Pootan · Apr 3, 2015

Having served time in technical support, I can say almost all problems with Windows I encountered had to do with either custom hardware or messing with settings or pron viruses. I never once encountered an issue that was purely operating system.

I can see how macs can be incredibly stable by not allowing the user to muck around with hardware or operating system. It is actually a good system.

joshlalonde · Apr 3, 2015

Toltepeceno said:
It's 5.5 pounds (with upgradable memory, processor, graphics card. Two hard drive spots with a dvd that could be used for a third drive it even has an option for adapter.) compared to apple's 4.5 pound mac pro so stop being dishonest. It makes nothing you say worth listening to. There are reasons to buy mac, I did, but price is by far not one of them. Adios, no need to read your posts.

So your saying you need an ssd to make yosemite run right? Then it doesn't just work. Battery? NO.

It also has nothing to do with what weight YOU want, it has to do with the generic mac comments you made. Mac's ARE expensive especially outside of the air class, no getting around it. You have to hit 2 grand just to get a quad core.

Erm, I'm not sure what you're talking about.
I was saying that the Macbook Air is generally cheaper than the Windows alternatives.

SSD != HDD. So you can't compare them. If it doesn't have a SSD, then it is not the same. That's all there is to it.

Battery life is a huge factor. You can't even try and compare a gaming rig that has 5 hours unplugged (impressive as that may be) to an ultrabook capable of all-day battery life...

Oh, and the weight difference is larger than you think. A student such as myself greatly appreciates said difference.

I'm talking about the MacBook. Nothing more, nothing less.

Biscotti · Apr 3, 2015

hagar said:
I completely understand you. I switched from XP to OS X 10.4 Tiger. Very impressed with it and never looked back. Until last year.

iOS 8 is still not where we were in terms of stability of iOS 6. And Yosemite is just a mess. Pretty, but a mess. Very unresponsive on my Macbook Pro 2014. And lot's and lot's of bugs. I just hope 10.10.03 finally makes it more usable.

My only wish is that iOS 9 and OS X 10.11 don't introduce a single new feature but rather focus on streamlining my Apple experience.

(Oh: and get rid of the horrible ugly notification centers in both OS versions: what a waste of screen estate).

Completely agree. I've been around since Tiger, I love(d) Apple but :
---Yosemite sucks. I toggle Wifi every day on and off my 2011 MBA...
---...which DOES NOT HAVE handoff/continuity just because they want me to upgrade.
---iTunes Match is a mess...songs stop playing have way through
---iOS has gotten better over time but not perfect

Lots of software issues.

motrek · Apr 3, 2015

Pootan said:
Having served time in technical support, I can say almost all problems with Windows I encountered had to do with either custom hardware or messing with settings or pron viruses. I never once encountered an issue that was purely operating system.

I can see how macs can be incredibly stable by not allowing the user to muck around with hardware or operating system. It is actually a good system.

Sounds like maybe you weren't in tech support for very long. Windows has had a bunch of problems over the years where you could easily get malware or a virus or have something terrible happen to your computer through absolutely no fault of your own. Sasser was nuts and is still not eradicated completely. IE has had a bunch of remote execution bugs where just going to a web page could install malware/adware on your machine without permission. Also one of my computers a while ago was literally bricked (BIOS erased) via a nasty shell flaw that executed code embedded in a video clip when trying to generate a preview for said video file--so I didn't even open the file and the machine was ruined.

Windows has been a huge bummer for me over the years and I'm glad to be rid of it.

adamhenry · Apr 3, 2015

I remember the Code Red worm that spread to every M$ IIS web server on the network. Of course IIS installed on workstations by default.

Pootan · Apr 3, 2015

motrek said:
Sounds like maybe you weren't in tech support for very long. Windows has had a bunch of problems over the years where you could easily get malware or a virus or have something terrible happen to your computer through absolutely no fault of your own. Sasser was nuts and is still not eradicated completely. IE has had a bunch of remote execution bugs where just going to a web page could install malware/adware on your machine without permission. Also one of my computers a while ago was literally bricked (BIOS erased) via a nasty shell flaw that executed code embedded in a video clip when trying to generate a preview for said video file--so I didn't even open the file and the machine was ruined.

Windows has been a huge bummer for me over the years and I'm glad to be rid of it.

Yeah I only did 4 months before I moved up to dev, and it was primarily removing pron viruses. The were some hilarious times with overly obstructive pop ups and ads during presentations.

Goodbye Apple. It's been a fun ride.

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