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robdrj45

macrumors member
Jun 11, 2012
65
0
USA
If Apple had been able to price the base retina MacBook at $799, they would have almost certainly killed the Air (or put it on life support). At $799 it beats the base model Airs in nearly every spec except CPU (and ports obviously).

True. The Air's had a good run though, its ROI for Apple is likely way in the black. So, no big loss. A similar thing happens when an automaker introduces an all-new mid-size model...it often cannibalizes sales of an older, more expensive full size model. If the rumored 14'' rMB comes along (with additional ports and power), Apple will likely phase-out the Air anyway, or maybe they'll keep an inexpensive base model available for students.

Let's face it, the current 12'' rMB is basically one step up from an iPad, featuring additional power/memory and a keyboard in place of the touchscreen. Granted, it runs a full OS which is capable of greater productivity. Still, to me it's not worth $1300, or $800 more than a base iPad. An improved 14'' version...yea, that I find an interesting alternative to a more powerful 13'' rMBP, and IMO is worth $1300.
 

toi

macrumors member
Jul 21, 2011
33
0
I sold my 2011 11 air in august waiting for a nice upgrade.
After waiting months apple came up with the bastard child macbook . Underpowered cpu with only 1 port.
Bought a used maxed out 2013 11 air this week.
Couldnt be happier.
 

ron7624

macrumors 68020
Oct 14, 2011
2,228
437
Houston, Texas area
Let's list the minuses of the 11" MBA and the rMB

11"MBA
1) The only minus is the display, which is adequate.

rMB
1) Underpowered (compared to the i7 2.0 GHz Air)
2) No Thunderbolt i.e. cannot connect to the Cinema Display
3) Single USB-C port
4) Must carry adapter for USB-C to USB
5) Must cary adapter to charge and connect simultaneously.
6) No Magsafe

Both machines are nearly identical in size and weight. A maxed out 11" Air and maxed out rMB is about the same price.

This is like taking 6 steps back in order to leap forward. I'll wait for Apple to leap forward with the 2nd or 3rd gen rMB.

Meanwhile I'm quite content with my Maxed out 2012 11" Air. :cool:

I am buying a maxed out 11" MBA today. It feels great to type on to me I couldn't type a sentence without mistakes on the 13" MBA lol
But, I wanted to go with the new Macbook. I have to make this purchase today but your post helped me decide. How inconsiderate that one C port is. But Apple's vision may be more long sighted than mine. So, I'll get the Air today. If only the screen went from bezel to bezel. What a wast of real estate. But then it would't be an 11 inch :rolleyes:
 

unibility

macrumors 6502a
Apr 6, 2012
629
635
I am buying a maxed out 11" MBA today. It feels great to type on to me I couldn't type a sentence without mistakes on the 13" MBA lol
But, I wanted to go with the new Macbook. I have to make this purchase today but your post helped me decide. How inconsiderate that one C port is. But Apple's vision may be more long sighted than mine. So, I'll get the Air today. If only the screen went from bezel to bezel. What a wast of real estate. But then it would't be an 11 inch :rolleyes:

Expect great results:

MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2015)
Processor Intel i7 2.2 Ghz Dual-Core
Memory 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
SSD APPLE 512 GB SSD SM0512G Media
 

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ron7624

macrumors 68020
Oct 14, 2011
2,228
437
Houston, Texas area
Expect great results:

MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2015)
Processor Intel i7 2.2 Ghz Dual-Core
Memory 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
SSD APPLE 512 GB SSD SM0512G Media

Very cool. I was able to purchase it using my iPad on line, while in the store.
However, we had massive storms, floods and power outages in this area last night. The Apple Store had no power and couldn't pull stock, so maybe I can go back later today and get it when the power comes back on - if they have the maxed configuration in store. The genius said they should. If not, I'll get it April 30. Man, I hate waiting lol.
 

unibility

macrumors 6502a
Apr 6, 2012
629
635
Very cool. I was able to purchase it using my iPad on line, while in the store.
However, we had massive storms, floods and power outages in this area last night. The Apple Store had no power and couldn't pull stock, so maybe I can go back later today and get it when the power comes back on - if they have the maxed configuration in store. The genius said they should. If not, I'll get it April 30. Man, I hate waiting lol.

The closet Apple Store did not have the max version in stock. What I would recommend since you're in this situation is when ordering online, go to the educational store. I saved $150 on my purchase. Couldn't be happier.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
63,980
46,447
In a coffee shop.
The maxed out 11" MBA is a stunning machine; I have one. It is light, fast, powerful, reliable, and thoroughly tested. An amazing piece of work.

At the moment, for those who value portability, and power, nothing else touches it. Retina screens are all very nice, but I value light weight, memory and power a bit more.

For now, I doubt that the 'new' rMB poses much of a threat to a high spec MBA; however, over a few generations, (and I suspect it will take that long), when the tweaking that (badly) needs to be done has been done, and the necessary revisions and adaptations to the next and further generations have been made, then, the rMB may well offer a challenge to the MBA.
 

ron7624

macrumors 68020
Oct 14, 2011
2,228
437
Houston, Texas area
I agree the MBA I just bought will be the best of class for a while within the Apple garden. I did do my research before I plopped down the money. It will certainly take care of my needs. Now, it they get their electricity back, I'll be able to get ny hands on it lol.
 

Yaboze

macrumors 6502a
May 31, 2007
796
275
The Garden State
I'd rather have the MBA, the only downside is the display and if you need more real estate for other work (at a desk), just get a 24-27" LCD.

Remember, although the retina screens are great, they use more battery and could be laggier with UI elements and graphics. MBA's have great battery life, even better than the new rMB.

Ultimately, I'd rather have the new 13" Retina MBP.
 

Cronus

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2010
40
0
I currently have a 2012 MacBook Pro Retina (512GB SSD, 16GB RAM, 2.6GHz CPU)[bought as soon as it was available), and a Mid 2013 MacBook Air (256GB SSD, 8GB RAM, i7 1.7GHz CPU)[bought 1-1.5 years ago], and have had the base configuration of the new MacBook Retina 12-inch for a few days now.

I haven't really used my rMBP much since I got the Air, and I'd hoped that the new MB would be everything I originally wanted in a MB when I got the Air. Small, powerful, with a beautiful screen. The new MB is a hell of a sexy machine, and that screen is gorgeous, but man is it slow - raw performance wise and in terms of UI lag. I went back to my 2012 rMBP to compare, and it is way faster, but also suffers from serious UI lag IMO. It's sad, because I really wanted to love the new MB. Man is it sexy!

The 11" MBA just feels so fast. With virtually no UI lag whatsoever, I'm sure part of that is pure perception, but it just feels right.

I'm still planning on selling my rMBP and I am going to return the new MB. Since it seems like Apple might not be releasing that retina MBA i'd been hoping for anytime soon, I might try one of the new 13" MBP models. But man, I do love this 11" MBA. I just wish it had a retina display.
 

bingeciren

macrumors 65816
Sep 6, 2011
1,069
1,009
Jony Ive doesn't believe in evolution; he believes in revolution. Even if it means taking a step back.

Would it be so hard or unfathomable to put that 12" retina display on the 11" Air, and while you are at it, add the the gold and the space grey option to it and call it a day?

I bet that would annoy a lot less people, get plenty of good reviews and still generate as much sales.

Apple still thinks consumers don't know what they want, as Steve Jobs once said. However, times have changed. I believe a lot of consumers these days have a pretty good idea about what they want or expect from their next generation devices, and they get annoyed when they are presented with colorful anorexic (and sometimes less capable) creations presented as a step forward.
 

Cronus

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2010
40
0
I was all set to go in and get an Ultimate configuration of the MBP Retina 13" today, and after playing with them in the stores....I decided to pass on the 13", just return my newly bought MB Retina 12" and stick with my mid-2013 11" MBA.

It makes me sad, but my MBA just feels faster. I know it's not faster than than the 13" rMBP, but it sure does feel faster. The choppy frame rates with retina displays really, really bothers me. I'm surprised it doesn't bother other people as much. It makes that really powerful hardware feel painfully slow. Even the retina iMac's at the store felt somewhat sluggish, although not nearly as sluggish as the 12" MB and 13" retina MBp. It sure does seem like a retina display that isn't backed by a discrete GPU makes for a poor user experience.

Others have stated that performance took a nosedive with Yosemite, so here's hoping they make some improvements in the next release. I'm really itching to buy some shiny new Apple hardware! :D
 

Jacoblee23

macrumors 65816
Nov 10, 2011
1,474
717
I was all set to go in and get an Ultimate configuration of the MBP Retina 13" today, and after playing with them in the stores....I decided to pass on the 13", just return my newly bought MB Retina 12" and stick with my mid-2013 11" MBA.

It makes me sad, but my MBA just feels faster. I know it's not faster than than the 13" rMBP, but it sure does feel faster. The choppy frame rates with retina displays really, really bothers me. I'm surprised it doesn't bother other people as much. It makes that really powerful hardware feel painfully slow. Even the retina iMac's at the store felt somewhat sluggish, although not nearly as sluggish as the 12" MB and 13" retina MBp. It sure does seem like a retina display that isn't backed by a discrete GPU makes for a poor user experience.

Others have stated that performance took a nosedive with Yosemite, so here's hoping they make some improvements in the next release. I'm really itching to buy some shiny new Apple hardware! :D

How is it sluggish? I am curious because I have thought about selling my 13" Air for a MBPR. My Air though works pretty seamlessly so that sounds worrisome.
 

Cronus

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2010
40
0
How is it sluggish? I am curious because I have thought about selling my 13" Air for a MBPR. My Air though works pretty seamlessly so that sounds worrisome.

I don't want my own frustration to dissuade you from purchasing a MBP, because It'll perform actual tasks very fast. I'm sure, faster than your MBA. For example, applying some photoshop filter, or compiling some code, will be very fast. But when it comes time to interacting with the UI - using mission control gestures, swiping through spaces, resizing windows - things seem to be way less fluidic on macs with retina displays. The beautiful animations can range from a bit choppy to very choppy. They get choppier with the more UI elements on screen and the higher resolution you go.

The best concrete example I can give is probably the folllowing: If I had a 13.3" retina MBP, I'd like to run it at least at 1440x900, if not 1680x1050. If I had a couple of browser windows, an IDE, a text editor, a terminal and two finder windows open and I were to three finger swipe up on the trackpad to make mission control show all of my open windows, the animation to shrink and fit them all on the screen at once would be very choppy. where as if I do this on my mid-2013 11" MBA (8GB RAM, i7), it would be super smooth.

If you're going to be in full screen mode, and not have a ton of windows open at a time, or not interacting with OS X in that way, you probably won't notice it. One thing that is still super fast on retina macs is scrolling in safari. It tends to be buttery smooth, even on complex sites such as the verge. You really just need to try it out in a store for yourself.

This is probably the best video I've seen demonstrating what annoys me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7QwPi0slVc

The only macs I've seen thus far that have retina displays where this doesn't bother me too much, are ones with discrete GPUs, such as the 15" rMBP(when configured), or the retina iMac.
 

motrek

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,613
305
...
This is probably the best video I've seen demonstrating what annoys me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7QwPi0slVc
...

I don't doubt the UI lag but the guy in this video is an idiot. He turns on transparency and talks about how the UI FPS "should" be 60 but is 40 "for some reason" ... well, duh, it's because the computer has to do more work to display stuff with transparency. It's not a bug, everything is working as intended. Just slow, unfortunately.
 

Cronus

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2010
40
0
I think the point he is trying to make is that he believes the animations should all run at 60fps, out of the box(transparency enabled is the default), for the best possible user experience.

Of course we all have our own thresholds of what is acceptable, so we need to choose for ourselves what works for us and what doesn't. For me, I think I'd rather apple have a more graceful degradation of fancy animations rather than have them run at such low frame rates. Of course I understand slow frame rates when the system is under stress, but when it's effectively idle, it's a bit of a letdown for me.

The 11" is a beast! :)
 

flur

macrumors 68020
Nov 12, 2012
2,371
1,160
I don't doubt the UI lag but the guy in this video is an idiot. He turns on transparency and talks about how the UI FPS "should" be 60 but is 40 "for some reason" ... well, duh, it's because the computer has to do more work to display stuff with transparency. It's not a bug, everything is working as intended. Just slow, unfortunately.

He didn't "turn on transparency" it's enabled by default. Basically, you take the computer out of the box and turn it on and it has lags. It's not a bug, per se, but it is a design flaw.
 

motrek

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,613
305
He didn't "turn on transparency" it's enabled by default. Basically, you take the computer out of the box and turn it on and it has lags. It's not a bug, per se, but it is a design flaw.

In the video, he had it off, and he turned it on. I didn't misspeak.

I wouldn't call it a design flaw. Apple wanted things to look a certain way, and that's as fast as the computer can display them that way. They made a design decision to prioritize appearance vs. fluidness.
 

MacBoook160

macrumors 6502
Feb 9, 2011
301
53
I sold my 2011 11 air in august waiting for a nice upgrade.
After waiting months apple came up with the bastard child macbook . Underpowered cpu with only 1 port.
Bought a used maxed out 2013 11 air this week.
Couldnt be happier.

If you don't mind a potentially stupid question, why 2013 vs. 2014? I assume that you found a particularly great deal (and congratulations for it) - but I was curious if part of the reason is that you didn't think there was much difference between the two models?
 

ucfgrad11

macrumors member
Sep 20, 2013
83
4
Am I the only one (stupid enough?) that ended up getting the MacBook Air after the announcement of the 12" MacBook?!

The MBr design is AWESOME and the retina screen will be missed, but coming from a 2010 MBP I really haven't been spoiled fully by retina (its on my iPhone).

I ordered the Air 11" with upgraded RAM and the i7 processor. Still super excited for it to come in the mail!

Old is Gold, right?

I was considering getting the rMB after it was announced but opted for the 13" MBA. If you've never had a laptop this light before, you'll be pleased.
 
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flur

macrumors 68020
Nov 12, 2012
2,371
1,160
In the video, he had it off, and he turned it on. I didn't misspeak.

I wouldn't call it a design flaw. Apple wanted things to look a certain way, and that's as fast as the computer can display them that way. They made a design decision to prioritize appearance vs. fluidness.

I didn't say you misspoke. Transparency is turned on by default, regardless of what the guy did in the video (likely he was just making it clear that transparency affects the behavior). I don't think this is an either/or situation. Apple chose not to optimize their OS. It is by definition a design flaw.
 

motrek

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,613
305
I didn't say you misspoke. Transparency is turned on by default, regardless of what the guy did in the video (likely he was just making it clear that transparency affects the behavior). I don't think this is an either/or situation. Apple chose not to optimize their OS. It is by definition a design flaw.

They optimized it just fine. Their design people decided it looks better with transparency and they optimized for appearance. "Optimization" doesn't always mean maximizing FPS and making something look better isn't a design flaw.
 

jdechko

macrumors 601
Jul 1, 2004
4,230
325
If you don't mind a potentially stupid question, why 2013 vs. 2014? I assume that you found a particularly great deal (and congratulations for it) - but I was curious if part of the reason is that you didn't think there was much difference between the two models?

The maxed out 2013 is identical to the 2014 model. The only difference between the 2 versions on paper was that the 2014 base model was a 1.4GHz and the 2013 was 1.3.

Same model identifier even (MacBookAir6,1), but different part number.

In practice, maybe some SSD models were faster.
 

MacBoook160

macrumors 6502
Feb 9, 2011
301
53
The maxed out 2013 is identical to the 2014 model. The only difference between the 2 versions on paper was that the 2014 base model was a 1.4GHz and the 2013 was 1.3.

Same model identifier even (MacBookAir6,1), but different part number.

In practice, maybe some SSD models were faster.

Thank you!
 

jido

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2010
271
129
I don't like the non-Retina screen. It looks blurry and washed-out to me.

I am sad about the low resolution and poor viewing angles on my 11" Air, however I cannot say that it looks washed-out.

But I set a custom colour profile and found it looks way better than the default one. If you buy a MacBook Air I suggest doing the same.
 
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