Twisted vieware you serious...
The current incarnation of consumer DSLRs are as dead as buggy whips...
Well it's pretty clear that twisted is the right word for that. Now I wonder if you're trolling or you really are that confused.
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DSLR vs Mirrorless sales
- Thread starter MCAsan
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Well it's pretty clear that twisted is the right word for that. Now I wonder if you're trolling or you really are that confused.
It amuses me that several here seem to be incapable of understanding that some, indeed many, people have different desires for images. If an image meets a user's needs, then by definition they have an acceptable level of quality.
If somebody's snap shot with a Brownie, Instamatic, P&S, or smartphone is OK and meaningful to them, fine. It's always been that way.
And the vast majority of pretty pictures taken by pros, serious amateurs and duffers with DSLR equipment is just that: pretty pictures, not art, not even anything that important. Yeah, if I'm paying for wedding pictures or I wanna hang something on my wall, maybe DSLR... but some of the most precious wedding pictures I've seen weren't even by the pro, but some participant in the right place at the right time with her camera phone.
We started this out by talking about sales of one type vs another. People have voted, and most get all they need with smartphones, followed perhaps by P&Ss. It doesn't matter that DSLRs produce better quality photos as you define it; fact is most people don't care in that they aren't willing to accept the tradeoffs to get those "better" pictures.
TL;DR: content trumps image quality most of the time for most people.
If somebody's snap shot with a Brownie, Instamatic, P&S, or smartphone is OK and meaningful to them, fine. It's always been that way.
And the vast majority of pretty pictures taken by pros, serious amateurs and duffers with DSLR equipment is just that: pretty pictures, not art, not even anything that important. Yeah, if I'm paying for wedding pictures or I wanna hang something on my wall, maybe DSLR... but some of the most precious wedding pictures I've seen weren't even by the pro, but some participant in the right place at the right time with her camera phone.
We started this out by talking about sales of one type vs another. People have voted, and most get all they need with smartphones, followed perhaps by P&Ss. It doesn't matter that DSLRs produce better quality photos as you define it; fact is most people don't care in that they aren't willing to accept the tradeoffs to get those "better" pictures.
TL;DR: content trumps image quality most of the time for most people.
I'm amazed mirrorless cameras aren't now outselling dslrs. I have a canon eos40d and a newer sony alpha 6000. There's no going back for me.
And I don't think it's fair to say that dslr automatically means higher quality. Most dslrs have aps-c sensors, the same as in my sony. Combine that with a nice carl zeiss lens and the image quality is very good, and so much more portable. Granted though a full frame sensor dslr and high quality lens will undoubtably be better.
And I don't think it's fair to say that dslr automatically means higher quality. Most dslrs have aps-c sensors, the same as in my sony. Combine that with a nice carl zeiss lens and the image quality is very good, and so much more portable. Granted though a full frame sensor dslr and high quality lens will undoubtably be better.
WOW, go back and reread the posts one more time. Sound out the big words. You will eventually get it
How ironic.
Not at all, DSLRs and DSLMs are being replaced (by the masses) with ever improving smartphone cameras.
Will I replace my DSLR bodies with a smartphone camera? Yes and No. I take way fewer picture now than I did with my DSLRs, those images have been replaced with images taken with my camera phone. Do I still use my DSLR? Of course. I hope to ditch my DSLR bodies (will prolly keep one FF body) for a FF DSLM body...
I take the same amount of pictures with my iPhone as previous smartphones and take the same amount of pictures with my dslr as before I got the iPhone. When I can plan properly I tend to lug around the equipment.
I have never left the house in a situation that I would have taken a DSLR and decided to leave it at home because I have an iPhone. I do take more snapshots because I have a phone/camera in my pocket most of the time, but I am not going to an event where I want photos with just an iPhone.
Personally, I don't think the DSLR market was ever for the average consumer that was happy with snapshots. They have the point and shoot market for that. What is hurting sales of camera bodies is the lack of innovation. I bought the 5D mark III in 2012 and have no compelling reason to update. I have bought a few lenses since then, though.
You might have misunderstood the joke I was making. He said mirrorless camera sales were mirroring DSLR sales. Mirrors...get it?
Ironic, see?
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I agree with the original statement. As far as I can see, Canon and Nikon really aren't doing anything special in the photo arena right now. Same old boring, ugly, bulky DSLRs released year on year. Sony are doing some incredibly innovative things in this market right now with mirrorless and they seem to be the only ones really pushing this new generation of cameras. I've had my A6000 for a short while now, used it alongside my DSLR for a commercial shoot last week and enjoyed using it over my DSLR so much more. Everything about this thing is incredible and I don't feel like I'm compromising anything!
You might have misunderstood the joke I was making. He said mirrorless camera sales were mirroring DSLR sales. Mirrors...get it?
Ironic, see?
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Gottcha
Exactly
My challenge is that I have WAY to much Nikon glass to switch to Sony DSLM (I have been tempted) But there is no guarantee that a Nikon DSLM will support the f-mount.
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I have a real affinity for older manual lenses, just picked up two Tamrons and a Nikkor 50mm f1.4 (wow I love that lens)...
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I agree. It's always a concious decision for me... But not always in favour of the DSLR. The iPhone produces killer photos in good light... Certainly good enough for sharing the odd snapshot of something interesting on Facebook... And in those situations, the sharing is just as important as the camera.
If I'm going to spend the day "shooting" or going on a sight-seeing trip then I'll take the 5D3 and a couple of lenses. And like you, I would gladly buy a new body if there was anything better of compelling value from Canon... But there's been nothing other than the 5DS which solves a problem I don't have.
Ps. As an anecdote, my step-daughter got a 60D a few years ago and used it frequently... Until she got an iPhone.
I'm actually still surprised anyone is making point and shoot cameras. I see more people shooting photos with iPads these days than point and shoot cameras. And the number of phones on the end of selfie-sticks in front of touristy places says it all. The upside is I'm rarely asked to take someone's photo anymore
Yep, we only have weatherproof P&S specifically for the weather/water-tightness for use in water or for when the DSLR would be at too much risk.
+1... Canon and Nikon are asleep at the wheel.
Only Sony seems to have their head out of the sand. They are making sensors for all kinds of vendors for all kinds of devices from phones to mirrorless to DSLRs and growing that side of their business by leaps and bounds. It's enabling them to invest in R&D that is starting to pay dividends in terms of market share and innovative products.
Canon's and Nikon's consumer business is evaporating but the big money still flows from the pros... But for how long? Their lack of innovation makes them ripe for disruption.
Haha... Yeah I didn't see a lot of iPads in the water when I was snorkelling in French Polynesia over Christmas...
But you know what I did see a lot of? GoPro... There's another disruptive tech that has killed the camcorder market (previously dominated by Canon). I'm guessing that to some extent GoPro has also impacted DSLR sales that might have done duty shooting video.
I have to think that Canon and Nikon are headed for serious trouble. Just imagine where SmartPhone or GoPro cameras might be in 10-years... Stereoscopic 3D 8K video from array sensors doing multi-ISO HDR in real-time to simulate 20-stops of DR with adjustable focus and DOF in post (on your device).
While most of us are eagerly awaiting another 25MPx Body from Canon or Nikon with 60 cross-type focus points with a 1.3MPx screen that still doesn't have touch.
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The disruption is well underway, it will be interesting to see how both companies handle it.
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Haha... Yeah I didn't see a lot of iPads in the water when I was snorkelling in French Polynesia over Christmas...
But you know what I did see a lot of? GoPro... There's another disruptive tech that has killed the camcorder market (previously dominated by Canon). I'm guessing that to some extent GoPro has also impacted DSLR sales that might have done duty shooting video.
I have to think that Canon and Nikon are headed for serious trouble. Just imagine where SmartPhone or GoPro cameras might be in 10-years... Stereoscopic 3D 8K video from array sensors doing multi-ISO HDR in real-time to simulate 20-stops of DR with adjustable focus and DOF in post (on your device).
A great case study indeed...
PS. I have come to the conclusion that unless a catastrophic event occurs to one of my existing bodies I will probably not buy another DSLR body. I am really looking forward to someone making a major leap in the DSLM space with a company that acknowledges it is 2015, i.e., do something innovative. I honestly don't expect that from either canon or nikon
I have just upgraded my processing software and upgraded my D300 to a D300s (a very low shutter count/mint example). I seriously can't see any reason to upgrade further and I'm struggling to see how Nikon could innovate anything I would or that would genuinely help me take better images, and all the viable ($$$) other options involve serious compromise of the existing features I seriously value.
[sarcastic]
Now if they come out with some new automated scene settings such as "Getty Accepted", "Guaranteed Magazine Cover" etc then I <might> be tempted LOL
[/sarcastic]
Interestingly the BBC item Click is currently running a short documentary on them making an episode of the program using "mobile devices" to shoot, record and edit the program. This biggest hurdles were not in making the image quality good at all (at least directly) but firstly getting image stability and secondly getting good audio quality...
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Completely agree. With the work Sony are doing in the mirrorless market, it's only a matter of time before mirrorless cameras catch up and are able to replace the kind of DSLRs pros use. The A7 series comes to mind.
Thought I'd offer this for discussion. CNN was recently granted an interview with a high ranking N. Korean official. The sent a correspondent and a photojournalist. From the pic attached it looks like he used an Olympus EM5 or EM10, an M43 camera of course. Now, the images on CNN aren't exactly out of this world by any means. In light of this discussion, I thought the camera he chose to use was interesting.
If they invited me I would've taken my D750....because it's the one I have. And my iPhone but that may have been confiscated.
Edit: OK, I know photojournalists are not as worried about IQ as much as they are in getting the shot. As everyone keeps saying, in their own way, there's a tool for every job.
If they invited me I would've taken my D750....because it's the one I have. And my iPhone but that may have been confiscated
.Edit: OK, I know photojournalists are not as worried about IQ as much as they are in getting the shot. As everyone keeps saying, in their own way, there's a tool for every job.
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It will be a while if those trends are accurate. As someone pointed out, the trend in mirrorless has been fairly flat since 2012. Sony's revolutionary FF A7 came out in 2013 (some models extended into 2014) and yet we aren't seeing a trend upward. That means that other mirrorless formats are losing their audience or Sony isn't selling enough of the A7 to cause much of an uptick. The interesting thing is that FF mirrorless was completely new, so you would expect that it would have boosted the overall numbers if people were switching.
Personally, I love the idea of a lighter setup that can get great photos. However, the Sony lenses are expensive and have gaps in their lineup that make switching expensive and you will currently need adapters to make up for the lack of native lenses (assuming you use a length outside of their lineup).
Also, I prefer zoom lenses most of the time, but my dad has several prime lenses that he makes available to me when I ask. That is one of the upsides of having a very established lens market. Junior might like the idea of a m43, but he would need to start from scratch and buy all new lenses or use an adapter with heavy lenses (that can cause balancing issues) rather than just buying one camera body and have access to Dad or Uncle Joe's lenses while he builds up his own kit. (of course, there is also the common situation where Junior wants a camera, so dad gives his aging camera to junior and buys a new camera. That won't cause much of an uptick in camera body sales, but as Junior buys lenses for his hand-me-down camera, he is still giving his money to Canon/Nikon.)
It may have something to do with being as inconspicuous as possible. I have seen articles were some pros that use m43 say that they can be more stealthy with the smaller camera and lenses.Thought I'd offer this for discussion. CNN was recently granted an interview with a high ranking N. Korean official. The sent a correspondent and a photojournalist. From the pic attached it looks like he used an Olympus EM5 or EM10, an M43 camera of course. Now, the images on CNN aren't exactly out of this world by any means. In light of this discussion, I thought the camera he chose to use was interesting.
If they invited me I would've taken my D750....because it's the one I have. And my iPhone but that may have been confiscated
Nikon's track record in that regard is good though.
Remember Nikon is primarily a glass company, I'm pretty sure they will want to preserve their user-base' investment as they have done for several decades. Also there are some Pro fields for which mirrorless may take a lot longer, or never be adopted, sports for example, where camera handling and the benefits of an optical viewfinder may be a prime consideration.
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[tongue-in-cheek]
Perhaps it was just one he was willing to lose if confiscated?
[/tongue-in-cheek]
All excellent points, one would assume they would continue to support the f-mount.
I am primarily interested in the much smaller form factor of a FF DSLM.
Of course I am a huge fan of AIS manual lenses as well, go figure, hahahahaha
Hmmm, Nikon's take though maybe that if you want small form factor, go DX, its notable that they have no Pro-grade DX equivalent to the 70-200/2.8 (whereas they do for the smaller zooms in the 17-55/2.8).
...and if you have the 70-200/2.8 then the form factor of the body on the end is less significant.
