The Car Thread ... !

MatthewLTL · May 28, 2015

A.Goldberg said:
I have about 95 or 96,000 miles on my E60 at this point. My father gave it to me when I graduated college. My Grand Cherokee had become too unreliable and not worth fixing. The cost of ownership with the BMW is gut wrenching. My battery change cost $500 due to "reprogramming", whatever that means. I had a bunch of suspension work done as well as a new starter, let's just say the cost was about 1/3 of what the car is worth, if not more. It's too much money to dump into a car that old, in my opinion. It's a fantastic car, but as I've mentioned before I'd prefer and SUV or possibly something less ostentatious.

From what I understand with VWs (which have a Cost of Ownership not that far behind a BMW) "Reprogramming" means the car's computer and alarm system (and i think even the starter) have to be "reset" so the car doesn't keep bitching that battery is shot and so the car can start. I don't know much about it but I do believe it has something to do with the car not properly using the battery or charging it if it isn't reprogrammed. I believe that on a VW if you dont reprogram the car after a battery swap various things such as the alarm, stereo and power windows will not function. It's also not uncommon on VWs for the alarm remotes or keys to become "unprogrammed".

My sister had 2 99 Beetles before. One of them needed a new seatbelt which cost $250 (you can buy a seatbelt at autozone for $20), The door lock broke in the car that cost over $300 to replace.

On a simular note, My sister also had a 2002 Saturn SL. She got rid of it because it had over $2000 in repairs needed. Repairs included a new water pump, 4 new tyres, a new windsheild, new window crank on driver's side, and a oil change. Saturn's are total garbage.

yg17 · May 28, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
Saturn's are total garbage.

I'm not sure that someone who drives a Daewoo has a right to call another car brand garbage

quagmire · May 28, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
Repairs included a new water pump, 4 new tyres, a new windsheild, new window crank on driver's side, and a oil change. Saturn's are total garbage.

Besides the water pump and window crank sounds like everything else is typical maintenance and bad luck( guessing a stone or something hit and cracked the windshield). And not knowing the age of the vehicle and mileage, the water pump and window crank could simply be wear and tear.

That's hardly enough to call Saturn's garbage..... And as yg pointed out, not even close to the issues you have been having with your vehicles.

2298754 · May 28, 2015

A.Goldberg said:
I have about 95 or 96,000 miles on my E60 at this point. My father gave it to me when I graduated college.

My E70 just rolled out of warranty about 3 weeks ago. Has 30k miles on it, but I admit... I'm pretty scared to see what this will cost me in the long run. Hopefully, I don't end up keeping it too long.

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MatthewLTL said:
On a simular note, My sister also had a 2002 Saturn SL. She got rid of it because it had over $2000 in repairs needed. Repairs included a new water pump, 4 new tyres, a new windsheild, new window crank on driver's side, and a oil change. Saturn's are total garbage.

Sorry, but I don't know how a Daewoo owner could call any other car brand "garbage"

bunnspecial · May 28, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
On a simular note, My sister also had a 2002 Saturn SL. She got rid of it because it had over $2000 in repairs needed. Repairs included a new water pump, 4 new tyres, a new windsheild, new window crank on driver's side, and a oil change. Saturn's are total garbage.

AKA normal maintenance...

Window cranks are an old enough technology that most of the broken ones I've run into have been a case of abuse-sometimes inadvertent-but abuse none the less.

As for the windshield, if you drive on the interstate much sooner or later you're going to roll the dice and get a chip that can turn into a crack. There are companies now that can patch them, although I think it has to be out of the driver's line of sight. Let a chip go too long and it will almost always turn into a crack. The cost or quality of a car doesn't matter-as far as I know there are only two or three companies that make windshields anyway.

And, again, tires wear out. They wear out from driving, and they dry rot with time. It doesn't matter how cheap or expensive the car is. In fact, the cheap tires on economy cars often have harder rubber that wears longer than the high end Z-rated tires on performance oriented cars.(BTW, if I had the MG I keep threatening to buy, I might say I had tyres on it, and even a spare tyre in the boot. On any other car, I have tires).

And an oil change-are you kidding me with complaining about it? The Saturns I've seen have a $5 or less can filter and take 4 or 5 quarts of oil. It's a $20-25 job if you do it yourself, and most Jiffy Lube places will do it for $30 or $35. I'd dare say that an oil change on a Saturn is a lot less expensive than on a Mercedes.

There's a lot to not like about Saturns, but they really never made any apologies about being an economy car and were pretty darn good for their intended market.

yg17 · May 28, 2015

bunnspecial said:
The cost or quality of a car doesn't matter-as far as I know there are only two or three companies that make windshields anyway.

Indeed, cracked windshields can happen on any car no matter the cost. It's ridiculous to fault Saturn because one needed a new windshield.

Story time....

When I had my Acura TSX, I dropped it off for some minor warranty thing, and they gave me a loaner RL - a $55,000 car. Fully loaded. Needless to say, it was the most expensive car I'd ever driven until I got a chance to drive a Tesla for a few miles. On the way to work in the RL, a rock flies up and hits the windshield and cracked it. By the end of the day, it was a crack going down the entire length of the windshield from top to bottom. In other words, this wasn't a minor thing that could be repaired.

So I'm looking online for repair quotes, and a lot of places seem to be in the $300-400 range. Perfect. My insurance deductible is $500, and I do not have a $0 glass deductible. I figure I'll drop the car off, they'll get a quote from Safelite or whatever, I'll fork over $3-400 and that's that. My insurance company never finds out and I don't risk my rates going up.

No, not quite. They tell me that because it's a loaner car, and will eventually be re-sold as certified pre-owned, it needs OEM glass from Acura, and that it will be $1,600. That sounded like a load of bull, so at that point, I turn it over to my insurance company, and even the adjuster says that seems awfully high for a windshield repair. But, I guess the dealer won because insurance paid out $1,100 and I paid my $500 deductible to the dealer.

A.Goldberg · May 28, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
From what I understand with VWs (which have a Cost of Ownership not that far behind a BMW) "Reprogramming" means the car's computer and alarm system (and i think even the starter) have to be "reset" so the car doesn't keep bitching that battery is shot and so the car can start.

The reprogramming is done to alter the alternator's output depending on the battery size/type, which apparently extends the battery life. The car adjusts the electrical system of the car based on the battery life. When you install a new battery, the system must be manually reset. If this is not done, the battery can overcharge and explode. Surely BMW in their infinite engineering capabilities could create a system to automatically recognize and assess the new battery, and therefore adjust its settings --or create a system that does not operate like this in the first place. As a result, they create more profit for their dealers by 'requiring' their cars to be serviced at the dealer.

P.S. If you're all into British spellings, Brits typically use single quotation marks rather than double, i.e. ' vs " when quoting.

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MatthewLTL said:
1st off a bad FPR and a bad CPS do not make cars unfit for the road. Drag does not make a car unsafe. The tyres on both cars are well within the legal thread to be safe. The tires on the impala are relitively new bought the car with new tyres on it. every problem the impala has i a common issue and problem on all 2000-2005 models of Impala and Monte Carlo and what ever other GMs use the 3800 Series II

So these things are not dangerous: A car stalling out, like you mentioned is happening. Driving with failed brakes/relying solely on the e-brake. Using crap to prevent leaks in your tires. Having an idle so high it will accelerate the car to 15mph. The "drag" issue you attribute to your brakes, which very well indicates something is wrong with your braking system. It's really not worth entertaining ignorance at this point.

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MatthewLTL said:
Saturn's are total garbage.

From what I understand, although Saturn's are cheap cars, they are quite indestructible. Everything you mentioned, aside from the window issue (which occurs on nearly all cars, some more than others), is general maintenance.

MatthewLTL · May 28, 2015

quagmire said:
Besides the water pump and window crank sounds like everything else is typical maintenance and bad luck( guessing a stone or something hit and cracked the windshield). And not knowing the age of the vehicle and mileage, the water pump and window crank could simply be wear and tear.

That's hardly enough to call Saturn's garbage..... And as yg pointed out, not even close to the issues you have been having with your vehicles.

yg17 said:
I'm not sure that someone who drives a Daewoo has a right to call another car brand garbage

AutoUnion39 said:
My E70 just rolled out of warranty about 3 weeks ago. Has 30k miles on it, but I admit... I'm pretty scared to see what this will cost me in the long run. Hopefully, I don't end up keeping it too long.

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Sorry, but I don't know how a Daewoo owner could call any other car brand "garbage"

bunnspecial said:
AKA normal maintenance...

Window cranks are an old enough technology that most of the broken ones I've run into have been a case of abuse-sometimes inadvertent-but abuse none the less.

As for the windshield, if you drive on the interstate much sooner or later you're going to roll the dice and get a chip that can turn into a crack. There are companies now that can patch them, although I think it has to be out of the driver's line of sight. Let a chip go too long and it will almost always turn into a crack. The cost or quality of a car doesn't matter-as far as I know there are only two or three companies that make windshields anyway.

And, again, tires wear out. They wear out from driving, and they dry rot with time. It doesn't matter how cheap or expensive the car is. In fact, the cheap tires on economy cars often have harder rubber that wears longer than the high end Z-rated tires on performance oriented cars.(BTW, if I had the MG I keep threatening to buy, I might say I had tyres on it, and even a spare tyre in the boot. On any other car, I have tires).

And an oil change-are you kidding me with complaining about it? The Saturns I've seen have a $5 or less can filter and take 4 or 5 quarts of oil. It's a $20-25 job if you do it yourself, and most Jiffy Lube places will do it for $30 or $35. I'd dare say that an oil change on a Saturn is a lot less expensive than on a Mercedes.

There's a lot to not like about Saturns, but they really never made any apologies about being an economy car and were pretty darn good for their intended market.

yg17 said:
Indeed, cracked windshields can happen on any car no matter the cost. It's ridiculous to fault Saturn because one needed a new windshield.

Story time....

When I had my Acura TSX, I dropped it off for some minor warranty thing, and they gave me a loaner RL - a $55,000 car. Fully loaded. Needless to say, it was the most expensive car I'd ever driven until I got a chance to drive a Tesla for a few miles. On the way to work in the RL, a rock flies up and hits the windshield and cracked it. By the end of the day, it was a crack going down the entire length of the windshield from top to bottom. In other words, this wasn't a minor thing that could be repaired.

So I'm looking online for repair quotes, and a lot of places seem to be in the $300-400 range. Perfect. My insurance deductible is $500, and I do not have a $0 glass deductible. I figure I'll drop the car off, they'll get a quote from Safelite or whatever, I'll fork over $3-400 and that's that. My insurance company never finds out and I don't risk my rates going up.

No, not quite. They tell me that because it's a loaner car, and will eventually be re-sold as certified pre-owned, it needs OEM glass from Acura, and that it will be $1,600. That sounded like a load of bull, so at that point, I turn it over to my insurance company, and even the adjuster says that seems awfully high for a windshield repair. But, I guess the dealer won because insurance paid out $1,100 and I paid my $500 deductible to the dealer.

A.Goldberg said:
The reprogramming is done to alter the alternator's output depending on the battery size/type, which apparently extends the battery life. The car adjusts the electrical system of the car based on the battery life. When you install a new battery, the system must be manually reset. If this is not done, the battery can overcharge and explode. Surely BMW in their infinite engineering capabilities could create a system to automatically recognize and assess the new battery, and therefore adjust its settings --or create a system that does not operate like this in the first place. As a result, they create more profit for their dealers by 'requiring' their cars to be serviced at the dealer.

P.S. If you're all into British spellings, Brits typically use single quotation marks rather than double, i.e. ' vs " when quoting.

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So these things are not dangerous: A car stalling out, like you mentioned is happening. Driving with failed brakes/relying solely on the e-brake. Using crap to prevent leaks in your tires. Having an idle so high it will accelerate the car to 15mph. The "drag" issue you attribute to your brakes, which very well indicates something is wrong with your braking system. It's really not worth entertaining ignorance at this point.

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From what I understand, although Saturn's are cheap cars, they are quite indestructible. Everything you mentioned, aside from the window issue (which occurs on nearly all cars, some more than others), is general maintenance.

My "Saturn's are garbage" are not just based on the SL my sister had. Saturns were made with paper engine gaskets, sprang engine leaks in as little as 40k miles are blew head gaskets in as little as 80k. When I was in high school SEVERAL students AND teachers/staff had Saturns. I overheard them say that they AGAIN had to take their Saturn to the shop for something else going wrong. A few even stated that taking it into the shop every single month because of something breaking was becoming routine. Saturn had MASS engine recalls to replace all the paper engine gaskets with rubber ones. She bought the car with a cracked windshield which AFAIK a cracked windshield is illegal in all states and cannot legally be sold in such a condition. The car had a $2500 repair estimate for a car that had a book value of $1500. I said tyres and a oil change were AMUNG the list of things needing replaced. It has NOTHING to do with my statement that saturn's are garbage.

The impala stalls out WHEN STARTED as in PARKED. NOT when driven. Driving with no brakes was only to get it fixed pushing the brake to the floor DID stop the car the emergency brake was used to ASSIST the braking.

Daewoo, contrary to popular belief, are rock solid and dependable cars. Every person to ever own a Daewoo has said that it is the best and most reliable car they have ever owned. The CPS is a manufacture recall, Not meaning the car is "Garbage" and after inspecting the sensor, the "Recall" is not anything to do with it's failure. The brake drag is mechanic negligence. Not because it is a "Garbage" car. The car is "said" to throw the timing belt at 40k miles well Guess what? 45,700+ miles and not only is it on the original timing belt, the timing belt is in perfect shape no cracks or dry rot at all. Someone i know from CarDomain went 86k miles before it snapped. It ran off its factory battery for over 7 years and has been running on its DieHard replacement for going to be 7 years this year. My Daewoo started up when it was -44F the impala.... needed a new battery. This past winter the Impala did nothing but die and needed to be on the charger constantly. The Daewoo always started no problems ever.

EDIT: (FOR BOLDED PARAGRAPH) Ususally when you buy a battery you get one that has the CCA and proper size for the car so a "reprogram" seems to be rather pointless and just a ripoff excuse.

bunnspecial · May 28, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
Someone i know from CarDomain went 86k miles before it snapped. It ran off its factory battery for over 7 years and has been running on its DieHard replacement for going to be 7 years this year. My Daewoo started up when it was -44F the impala.... needed a new battery. This past winter the Impala did nothing but die and needed to be on the charger constantly. The Daewoo always started no problems ever.

My first car was a '94 Maxima hand-me-down. We had the timing belt done at 90K(long overdue) and the mechanic said that it probably could have at least that much longer. In all honesty, 86K sounds kind of low to me for mechanical failure. I've known of plenty of neglected Toyotas, Nissans, and Hondas that were running on the original belt at 150K+ and died of unrelated issues.

Of course, I'm not advocating putting timing belt replacement off, as having one go when the engine is running can be catastrophic. From what I've seen, though, having one actually break is not that common.

As for batteries-I got 9 years out of the OEM battery in my car, and it died(sort of abruptly) on a day when it the high was around 0ºF. Remote mount batteries(mine's in the trunk-next to the spare tire) have done wonders for battery longevity, as they're not subject to the temperature extremes of under-hood batteries.

BTW, GM had massive gasket issues in the late '90s/early '00s related to the orange "Dex-Cool" coolant. My mom had a '98 Cadillac Catera(a surprisingly good and fun car that picked up a terrible reputation) that spent about 3 weeks in the shop getting effectively an entirely new cooling system and head gaskets. I think the car may have actually been out of warranty at the time(by maybe 6 months) but it was done for $0 out of pocket and with a loaner the entire time.

A.Goldberg · May 28, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
Saturn had MASS engine recalls to replace all the paper engine gaskets with rubber ones.

Head gaskets are not made out of rubber (either steel, copper, or a composite).

She bought the car with a cracked windshield which AFAIK a cracked windshield is illegal in all states and cannot legally be sold in such a condition. The car had a $2500 repair estimate for a car that had a book value of $1500. I said tyres and a oil change were AMUNG the list of things needing replaced. It has NOTHING to do with my statement that saturn's are garbage.

Sounds like she should have had the car inspected before purchasing.

The car is "said" to throw the timing belt at 40k miles well Guess what? 45,700+ miles and not only is it on the original timing belt, the timing belt is in perfect shape no cracks or dry rot at all.

One example cannot be used to make a generalization. If these Daewoos timing belts are known to fail after 45,000, that's pretty premature. You do know that when timing belts fail it causes catastrophic engine damage?

My Daewoo started up when it was -44F the impala.... needed a new battery.

Ugh, not this -44 degree nonsense again.

EDIT: (FOR BOLDED PARAGRAPH) Ususally when you buy a battery you get one that has the CCA and proper size for the car so a "reprogram" seems to be rather pointless and just a ripoff excuse.

On the BMW, the alternator power increases with age to compensate for the diminishing battery quality. Therefore when you replace the battery, even if it's the same, it may overcharge the battery. Therefore the CCA and "size" has nothing to do with it. You need to reprogram to tell the computer it's a new battery.

MatthewLTL · May 28, 2015

A.Goldberg said:
Head gaskets are not made out of rubber (either steel, copper, or a composite).

Sounds like she should have had the car inspected before purchasing.

One example cannot be used to make a generalization. If these Daewoos timing belts are known to fail after 45,000, that's pretty premature. You do know that when timing belts fail it causes catastrophic engine damage?

Ugh, not this -44 degree nonsense again.

On the BMW, the alternator power increases with age to compensate for the diminishing battery quality. Therefore when you replace the battery, even if it's the same, it may overcharge the battery. Therefore the CCA and "size" has nothing to do with it. You need to reprogram to tell the computer it's a new battery.

she bought the car from a dealership. Bent valves are the only thing that can result from a snapped timing belt. (atleast with this engine) The car will run with bent valves..... theres videos online of cars running with bent valves makes a hell of a racket but WILL run nonetheless. I need to eventually replace the valve cover gasket anyway. Replacing valves ain't that hard of a task to do. I will still follow the mechanics advice and get the timing belt replaced regardless if it needs it. The cars also due for new plugs (every 30k miles or 24 months) a new fuel filter (every 60k or 36 months) as well as a oil change (every 6k miles or every 3 years). I COULD have the mechanic do the cam sensor while he's doing the timing belt (original plan) but since my grandpa is footing the bill for both the cars and his sole income is Social Security, The more work I can do myself, the more money it saves him in the long run. Doing the CPS myself saves about $200. IF i can do it as mentioned previously its a bitch of a task. Since the suspension also needs service saving money on every place i can is key. Plugs i can replace myself (already removed them and re-gapped them last year) I can physically access the fuel filter but i have not looked that far into the service manual to see what that task involves. I should invest in some jack stands so i can do better work I am vary limited with only the factory-supplied jack and ramps at my disposal.

FX120 · May 28, 2015

A.Goldberg said:
I have about 95 or 96,000 miles on my E60 at this point. My father gave it to me when I graduated college. My Grand Cherokee had become too unreliable and not worth fixing. The cost of ownership with the BMW is gut wrenching. My battery change cost $500 due to "reprogramming", whatever that means. I had a bunch of suspension work done as well as a new starter, let's just say the cost was about 1/3 of what the car is worth, if not more. It's too much money to dump into a car that old, in my opinion. It's a fantastic car, but as I've mentioned before I'd prefer and SUV or possibly something less ostentatious.

I've owned 3 BMW's over the years and I keep hearing these ridiculous quotes for battery replacement as an example of how much it costs to keep them drivable. My 06' 530 needed a battery in 2012, my local dealer quoted $315 for parts/labor which seems like a lot for a battery, until you realize that an equivalent AGM battery from any mfg will cost about $200. The OEM battery in my 11' 335i costs about $250 which is reasonable considering the size.

Now the reason the car has to be "programmed" is due to BMW's battery management system. It's designed to never let the battery run down past the point where the car will fail to crank and leave you stranded. As a battery ages the capacity will vary, so BMW requires the car to be informed that it has a new one installed (and the parameters of the new battery inputted) so the car can start a new plot and change the allowable charge/discharge rates. This can be done in your garage with a $50 cable and some software downloadable from the internet if paying a dealer ~$65 for the hassle seems extreme.

Never have been able to get a strait answer from someone claiming to have received a $2000 quote to change a battery.

A.Goldberg · May 28, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
she bought the car from a dealership. Bent valves are the only thing that can result from a snapped timing belt. (atleast with this engine) The car will run with bent valves..... theres videos online of cars running with bent valves makes a hell of a racket but WILL run nonetheless.

It depends on the car and if it's an interference engine or not. Are you serious? Do you think a car is going to run well or reliably with bent valves? You can also cause camshaft, piston, head, and cylinder damage... (all these are catastrophic and not cheap/easy fixes). Even if it does run you're causing more damage. There's videos of Cash for Klunkers cars (oil drained) redlining for 20 minutes before finally dying... doesn't mean driving without oil is ok.

I need to eventually replace the valve cover gasket anyway. Replacing valves ain't that hard of a task to do.

Valve cover gaskets are usually pretty straightforward (unless you have a transversely mounded V6/V8 engine). BUT, to replace the valves you have to remove the head... "hard" I suppose is a relative term in that sense. Taken to a regular mechanic it would likely still be 1500+.

I will still follow the mechanics advice and get the timing belt replaced regardless if it needs it.

Sensible decision. They recommend every 45k on a Daewoo? Ugh.

Since the suspension also needs service saving money on every place i can is key.

What is wrong with the suspension at 45,000 miles?

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FX120 said:
I've owned 3 BMW's over the years and I keep hearing these ridiculous quotes for battery replacement as an example of how much it costs to keep them drivable. My 06' 530 needed a battery in 2012, my local dealer quoted $315 for parts/labor which seems like a lot for a battery, until you realize that an equivalent AGM battery from any mfg will cost about $200. The OEM battery in my 11' 335i costs about $250 which is reasonable considering the size.

Now the reason the car has to be "programmed" is due to BMW's battery management system. It's designed to never let the battery run down past the point where the car will fail to crank and leave you stranded. As a battery ages the capacity will vary, so BMW requires the car to be informed that it has a new one installed (and the parameters of the new battery inputted) so the car can start a new plot and change the allowable charge/discharge rates. This can be done in your garage with a $50 cable and some software downloadable from the internet if paying a dealer ~$65 for the hassle seems extreme.

Never have been able to get a strait answer from someone claiming to have received a $2000 quote to change a battery.

It was about $500 at a dealer here in Boston proper (which I know is more expensive than my CT dealer generally speaking). I'm well aware that you can buy the battery and may not even have to have the battery reprogrammed. The fact is, it's a ridiculous system to make the owner have to pay to have the battery reset, in my opinion. I'd prefer a battery you can just drop in, or menu option or button somewhere to reprogram without an extra tool. Sure, it's the cost of owning a European luxury car, but I believe we're heading a bad direction of auto manufactures limiting repairability and even functionality of vehicles for financial reasons through software.

My 2009 535xi has been dealer maintained its entire life. I suppose it could be fixed elsewhere, but I guess there is some level of perceived security having the manufacturer backing the work. When I had the battery replaced, I had other work done on the car, I completely forget what it was.

I'm not sure if the $2000 quote was literal or hyperbole, unless there was a lot of electrical issues associated with the battery. Perhaps the member who posted that can chime in.

quagmire · May 29, 2015

A.Goldberg said:
I'm not sure if the $2000 quote was literal or hyperbole, unless there was a lot of electrical issues associated with the battery. Perhaps the member who posted that can chime in.

The dealer wanted to replace the battery and battery cable, along with reprograming, etc saying it's good to change the cable when changing the battery. Maybe I am confusing the total price the service cost( this was when the emissions system failed), but it was a definitely at least a $1000 quoted job for it( including labor, etc).

We knew the battery didn't need changing because we got it replaced by our trusted mechanic about 6 months earlier when the old battery died. Hence why we call dealers, stealerships.

EDIT: Darn it. Looks like I deleted the email my dad sent me with the estimate sheet the dealer sent him.

bunnspecial · May 29, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
she bought the car from a dealership. Bent valves are the only thing that can result from a snapped timing belt. (atleast with this engine) The car will run with bent valves..... theres videos online of cars running with bent valves makes a hell of a racket but WILL run nonetheless.

Even if the engine runs with bent valves, it's not going to do any wonders for your gas mileage or emission system-which you've said yourself is not anywhere near what it should be(it's hard to get complete combustion when the cylinder isn't sealing) and chances are it's going to lead to complete engine failure.

As for valve replacement being an "easy" job-if you have the ability to pull the head yourself maybe so, but you still have to think about what the bent valves are going to do to the valve seats.

And, again, it's story time:

My dad had a 91 Ranger a few years back that I think I've mentioned here before. I tinkered with it a lot, but never could get it to run "right." It had a very rough idle, had bad gas mileage(about 15mph on the interstate with a 4-banger), and had a noticeable lack of power. There's a hill on I-64 coming into Frankfort that we often joke has a "truck lane" and a "car lane" because most semis do well to hold 60mph coming up it. When I was driving the pickup, I'd be going about 50mph at the top of the hill even with my foot to the floor.

After two or three weeks of this, we agreed that we needed to see a mechanic, who diagnosed a bad valve(and everything made sense). As per the mechanic, the issue was actually not all that uncommon to that model Ford engine(which was also used in the Escort and I think a couple of other cars).

The mechanic who made the diagnosis(one of the best in town and the only one other than the dealer who touches my car) wanted more than the value of the truck to fix the valve.

We ended up going to the junkyard and getting a head, then had another(less expensive) mechanic install it(along with a new head gasket, head bolts, timing belt, water pump, etc). My dad ended up having to buy two or three heads to get a "good" one, although fortunately the junkyards did take returns on all the others.

After the repair, it was like driving a new vehicle. An I-4 truck is never going to be a powerhouse, but at least it felt "peppy" and had no trouble going 70mph and faster on the interstate. It would also get 25mpg on the interstate-again not bad considering the aerodynamics of a vehicle designed in the mid-1980s. It would also idle without rattling fillings out of my teeth

A.Goldberg · May 29, 2015

bunnspecial said:
Even if the engine runs with bent valves, it's not going to do any wonders for your gas mileage or emission system-which you've said yourself is not anywhere near what it should be(it's hard to get complete combustion when the cylinder isn't sealing) and chances are it's going to lead to complete engine failure.

I agree, I think you'd be quite lucky to lose the timing belt on an interference engine and run a car with bent valves reliably for too long. Usually in an older car it's cheaper to put in another engine tha fix it-- if the car's value even makes it worth repairing.

MatthewLTL · May 29, 2015

bunnspecial said:
My first car was a '94 Maxima hand-me-down. We had the timing belt done at 90K(long overdue) and the mechanic said that it probably could have at least that much longer. In all honesty, 86K sounds kind of low to me for mechanical failure. I've known of plenty of neglected Toyotas, Nissans, and Hondas that were running on the original belt at 150K+ and died of unrelated issues.

Of course, I'm not advocating putting timing belt replacement off, as having one go when the engine is running can be catastrophic. From what I've seen, though, having one actually break is not that common.

As for batteries-I got 9 years out of the OEM battery in my car, and it died(sort of abruptly) on a day when it the high was around 0ºF. Remote mount batteries(mine's in the trunk-next to the spare tire) have done wonders for battery longevity, as they're not subject to the temperature extremes of under-hood batteries.

BTW, GM had massive gasket issues in the late '90s/early '00s related to the orange "Dex-Cool" coolant. My mom had a '98 Cadillac Catera(a surprisingly good and fun car that picked up a terrible reputation) that spent about 3 weeks in the shop getting effectively an entirely new cooling system and head gaskets. I think the car may have actually been out of warranty at the time(by maybe 6 months) but it was done for $0 out of pocket and with a loaner the entire time.

1. If timing belts ACTUALLY breaking is not common, than why is it they snap when the engine is running?

My sister's first car a 1995 Chevy Beretta, she claimed that the head gasket blowing was common at 120k miles (or something like that) of course she totaled it before we ever found out if it were true.....

2. Sounds like Daewoo..... Amazing cars... but like any car if maintained well will run forever. A few weeks back i saw another Lanos i was parked exactly 2 spots over at a Kwik Trip. I talked to the person inside of it and glanced at the mileage.... 120k+ miles. For being "Garbage, throw away cars at 40k miles" this one managed to get over 60k...

A.Goldberg · May 29, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
Sounds like Daewoo..... Amazing cars... but like any car if maintained well will run forever. A few weeks back i saw another Lanos i was parked exactly 2 spots over at a Kwik Trip. I talked to the person inside of it and glanced at the mileage.... 120k+ miles. For being "Garbage, throw away cars at 40k miles" this one managed to get over 60k...

Obviously you can keep any car running forever. It just depends how much work you want to put into it. To put $2000 to fix a $500 car for most people is not worth it. Also remember 1 individual does not represent the norm of a population. That's not how statistics work.

I am genuinely curious to know what you feel is so "amazing" about a Daewoo. I don't know much about Daewoo's history, but why did remove their branding from the US market?

120k isn't particularly impressive. In the early 90's a car's life expectancy was at least 8 years/150,000 miles. In the late 90's, that became 10 years, 200,000 miles. Today the average car on the road is ~12 years old. My mom traded in her 2009 Lexus ES350 this year with 146,000 miles. In those 6 years, not a single thing broke on the car (not even a light bulb). Aside from general maintenance (fluid changes, brakes, tires), no additional work was ever required. I know plenty of people with over 200k on their odometers.

bunnspecial · May 29, 2015

A.Goldberg said:
120k isn't particularly impressive. In the early 90's a car's life expectancy was at least 8 years/150,000 miles. In the late 90's, that became 10 years, 200,000 miles. Today the average car on the road is ~12 years old. My mom traded in her 2009 Lexus ES350 this year with 146,000 miles. In those 6 years, not a single thing broke on the car (not even a light bulb). Aside from general maintenance (fluid changes, brakes, tires), no additional work was ever required. I know plenty of people with over 200k on their odometers.

I'm nearing 140K on my beloved 2004 LS. I bought it with 56K on it. Of course, I've been pretty anal about preventative maintenance, but here's the non maintenance stuff that has happened since the fall of 2008(when I bought it).

Passenger side window regulator(tried to fix it myself and threw in the towel before I decided it was worth paying someone to do it)

Ignition coils and plugs. This really could fall under maintenance, as I managed to go about 125K on the originals, and both are typically a 100K part. I'm including it here because it was to the point where it dangerously undriveable(engine would randomly throttle power)-I parked it for a week or so waiting for the parts to come in and for me to get the time to install them. I could have gone longer on the plugs, but the ignition coils are a pain in the butt to get to, and once they're out each spark plug takes an extra minute or two to change-I thought it was stupid to not change them.

A plastic radiator T joint blew on me on I-64 last fall and dumped the coolant on the side of the road. I had to have it towed, but this was the only time the car had left me stranded like that.

I've changed the oil regularly-generally myself or occasionally at a dealer(I use Mobil1 5W-20 for 10K miles with an OEM oil filter). I've put on two sets of tires, and changed the transmission fluid twice. I did the rear brakes(I think the OEM pads and rotors were on there) once. The dealership put new front pads and turned the rotors(likely OEM) between the time I purchased the car and took delivery of it. I wore those pads out, and put ceramics on the front-the shop insisted that the rotors were okay to turn again(and I trust them), although I know rotors are coming with the next set of pads(probably in the next 10K miles). I did have to spring for 20 new lugnuts somewhere along the way-the good folks on the LS Owners Club told me that the nuts are metric(I forget what size) and many shops don't realize this so end up rounding them off by using an SAE driver. Since then, I've been careful to mention this any time I bring it in for work.

My mom traded off her first Towncar with 150K on it and still going strong, and the only PM her cars get are when either my dad or I insist that it be done and then go do it. I did learn really quickly how to change a COP on that car(fortunately it's easy, unlike my car) and changed probably three or four.

MatthewLTL · May 29, 2015

A.Goldberg said:
Obviously you can keep any car running forever. It just depends how much work you want to put into it. To put $2000 to fix a $500 car for most people is not worth it. Also remember 1 individual does not represent the norm of a population. That's not how statistics work.

I am genuinely curious to know what you feel is so "amazing" about a Daewoo. I don't know much about Daewoo's history, but why did remove their branding from the US market?

120k isn't particularly impressive. In the early 90's a car's life expectancy was at least 8 years/150,000 miles. In the late 90's, that became 10 years, 200,000 miles. Today the average car on the road is ~12 years old. My mom traded in her 2009 Lexus ES350 this year with 146,000 miles. In those 6 years, not a single thing broke on the car (not even a light bulb). Aside from general maintenance (fluid changes, brakes, tires), no additional work was ever required. I know plenty of people with over 200k on their odometers.

1. The reason Daewoo was removed from the US Market was because the company went belly up. Not from being "junk" cars but because the founder of Daewoo Motor Ltd. skimmed money from the company and when he was found out, he fled the country. Because of this, Daewoo couldn't pay off their debts and they went bankrupt GM bought them out in 2002. They were still sold as Daewoo in other countries. And even sold in the US as Suzuki, Honda and GM monikers.

2. 120k is impressive for a "Daewoo" Since the Lanos is a "Garbage" car that don't even live to see 100k. all honestly its not uncommon for even a Daewoo to have over 100k miles.

MatthewLTL · May 29, 2015

bunnspecial said:
I'm nearing 140K on my beloved 2004 LS. I bought it with 56K on it. Of course, I've been pretty anal about preventative maintenance, but here's the non maintenance stuff that has happened since the fall of 2008(when I bought it).

Passenger side window regulator(tried to fix it myself and threw in the towel before I decided it was worth paying someone to do it)

Ignition coils and plugs. This really could fall under maintenance, as I managed to go about 125K on the originals, and both are typically a 100K part. I'm including it here because it was to the point where it dangerously undriveable(engine would randomly throttle power)-I parked it for a week or so waiting for the parts to come in and for me to get the time to install them. I could have gone longer on the plugs, but the ignition coils are a pain in the butt to get to, and once they're out each spark plug takes an extra minute or two to change-I thought it was stupid to not change them.

A plastic radiator T joint blew on me on I-64 last fall and dumped the coolant on the side of the road. I had to have it towed, but this was the only time the car had left me stranded like that.

I've changed the oil regularly-generally myself or occasionally at a dealer(I use Mobil1 5W-20 for 10K miles with an OEM oil filter). I've put on two sets of tires, and changed the transmission fluid twice. I did the rear brakes(I think the OEM pads and rotors were on there) once. The dealership put new front pads and turned the rotors(likely OEM) between the time I purchased the car and took delivery of it. I wore those pads out, and put ceramics on the front-the shop insisted that the rotors were okay to turn again(and I trust them), although I know rotors are coming with the next set of pads(probably in the next 10K miles). I did have to spring for 20 new lugnuts somewhere along the way-the good folks on the LS Owners Club told me that the nuts are metric(I forget what size) and many shops don't realize this so end up rounding them off by using an SAE driver. Since then, I've been careful to mention this any time I bring it in for work.

My mom traded off her first Towncar with 150K on it and still going strong, and the only PM her cars get are when either my dad or I insist that it be done and then go do it. I did learn really quickly how to change a COP on that car(fortunately it's easy, unlike my car) and changed probably three or four.

That reminds me of my Daewoo. in the 15 years it's been owned and on the SE MN Roads, It's always been dependable. It never needed a block heater, Doesn't have power windows (Didn't want power windows knowing that eventually the regulators will go out) Other than manufacture-defected brakes that the dealer refused to replace under warranty and then the crappy brakes the dealer installed required the car to have a complete set of brakes in 2001 and in 2002. It needed brakes again in 2009 after sitting for several months. The air distorbution cable (the cable that switches the vents when you turn the knob, broke in 2008. It's suppose to default to Defrost in this situation however it didn't with this car. The A/C never worked from day one of buying the car.

This car never left me stranded either, until the thermostat housing blew in April 2013.

I now do oil changes on both cars myself with my ramps. I put 5w40 in my daewoo (due to leaky valve cover) and 10w40 in the Impala (Impala calls for 10w30 but burns oil pretty badly so 10w40 stops the need to always add oil.

I will change the oil this year and use Pennzoil Platinum (nitrogen enriched to clean engine gunk) as well as high-mileage oil filters.

MatthewLTL · May 30, 2015

So do any of you know what the P-AWD means on the 2014 (?) Acura RLX?

MatthewLTL · May 30, 2015

So i realized something when driving my Daewoo today. I ran over a puddle, and started seeing steam out of the driver's side wheel well. Being the fact the engine and airbox are on the right (tansmission is on the left between the engine and left front tyre). I decided to open the hood to see what was steaming and I noticed i have oil bubbling out of the #2 COP hole and a small pool of oil on the top of the valve cover in front of the plugs. I also happen to know the plug holes are completely filled with oil. From what i see online i need a Valve Cover Gasket kit with Spark plug tube seals. I will also need new plugs and wires. I hope this is the problem.

AustinIllini · May 30, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
So do any of you know what the P-AWD means on the 2014 (?) Acura RLX?

Two different acronyms. You probably saw P-AWS

P-AWS is Precision All Wheel Steering. This involves the rear wheels turning with the fronts (opposite direction) to sharpen the turning radius of the car. Nearly every car above the ILX comes with this feature standard (except the SH-AWD models).

SH-AWD is Super Handling All Wheel Drive. This is Acura's proprietary AWD option, which is front wheel biased in general operation, but in instances where RWD is preferred, the system sends most of the power to the real wheels. Depending on the model, more power can be put towards the rear wheel. Note: This is different than Honda's AWD option which appears on the CR-V and the Acura RDX. Those models are severely front biased to the point where the rear wheels cannot provide significant power to move the car without front assistance.

The RLX has SH-SH-AWD, which is a sport hybrid model with three electric motors, two to power the front, one to power the back. The gasoline engine powers the electric motors.

The NSX has SH-SH-AWD, however it is flipped. RLX AWD is biased towards the front wheels but the NSX hybrid is biased towards the rear.

If I ever considered an Acura in the future (I am quite pleased with the one I have despite the FWD), I would go SH-AWD.

http://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-generation-tlx-2015-415/sh-awd-vs-p-aws-903791/

zyr123 · May 30, 2015

Hmmm my dream car is the Infiniti q40. Why.... Gorgeous and generally affordable and still shows you have money but choose to use it in better ways.

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