Desktop Multitouch Screen Technology?

EagerDragon · Apr 27, 2007

People have been painting on a canvas for years, reaching over with brushes in hand. Why they would not be able to paint on an electronic canvas with their fingers?

If you think about people sitting at a desk, reaching over to a screen that sits too high to confortably you your hands and fingers on, then you are absolutly correct. But ... if you stand instead is a lot more confortable to interact wit hte canvas. Also you can place your canvas flat on the desk or at an angle like a drafting board and again you are talking about a natural interface similar to what people been doing for years.

Placement makes a big difference when you use a human interface that uses your hands and fingers to directly interact with the objects in your canvas.

EagerDragon · Apr 27, 2007

nagromme said:
Given the speed benefits of tactile touch-typing, and the historical failure of newer and better non-QWERTY layouts to catch on with the mainstream, I don't think touch-based keyboards are the future.

I wouldn't say no to a multitouch "display trackpad" accompanying my laptop and desktop keyboards though

You are thinking along the lines of typing documents and stuff. Think of other uses like in the demo of the interface, like painting, like retouching pictures, like film editing and music editing. Think of using gestures instead of keys.

Yes you can always use a keyboard when you need to type that document. But you dont need the keyboard to select the correct picture, rotate it, size it and place it at the correct location in the document.

EagerDragon · Apr 27, 2007

the vj said:
Actually a 30" Apple Cinema Screen.

It is very very nice and usefull.... when it works. I bought my screen a year ago and sent it to a company call "TrollTouch", they add touchscreen to anything, even powerbooks.

As I work in live shows I need to access to my clips very fast, ther is not even time to grab the mouse sometimes. Literally the control of my software in my finguertips.

The problem is that the screen stoped working and the people at Troll Touch just didn't reply any of my emails and they blocked my phone number.

I searched for the actual manofacturer and I got in touch with Touch Base systems in the UK. They told me they no longuer work with Troll Touch for the same reasons but they only create the software while Troll Touch create the hardware.

At the end, I ended up with a $5000 Apple Cinema Screen that doesn't work.

A friend of mine got two 20" iMacs as well from the same vendor and they still working just fine after a year even it seems like one of the touchscreen are loosing the touch capabilities.

Any way, here is a picture of my set up. The Touch Screen, the computer and a wireless keyboard and mouse if needed.

Again, the actual problem with a touch screen would be their duration. The same thing is going to happen with the iPhones, after a year they will give you problems because the surface will loose sensitivity.

Nice rig, sorry it is no longer working.

Some of what I read before suggest that some of this type of technology may not actualy needs for actual touch to occur. Also there was that article about the screen pixels acting a a camera, a camera that could potentialy be used to detect movement and that could be programmed to react to that movement, similar to some games we seen where a camera is used to monitor the user movement.

The technology may last longer if there is no direct contact with the surface.

nagromme · Apr 27, 2007

EagerDragon said:
You are thinking along the lines of typing documents and stuff. Think of other uses like in the demo of the interface, like painting, like retouching pictures, like film editing and music editing. Think of using gestures instead of keys.

Yes you can always use a keyboard when you need to type that document. But you dont need the keyboard to select the correct picture, rotate it, size it and place it at the correct location in the document.

Lifting your hands away from your work surface, up to the screen, would be very functional for certain tasks--but also tiring. I don't see it ever catching on for long hours of work, just for specific niche uses (where it already is in use).

Thanatoast · Apr 27, 2007

nagromme said:
Don't get me wrong, it's very cool to THINK about using computers through touchscreens alone.

But a virtual keyboard does not permit touch typing, and writing by hand takes longer than a fast typer--not to mention, writing all day can be very damaging and painful, worse then typing.

They could include an Gregg's Shorthand course in Leopard

Of course, then children would have to start wearing knickerbockers and movie tickets would cost a nickel, so maybe not.

Analog Kid · Apr 27, 2007

Interesting how the article is about Synaptics saying not to expect full size multi-touch displays and this whole thread is talking about full size multi-touch displays...

hyperpasta said:
Note: Another thing that would work would be having the computer be facing up like a sheet of paper on a desk.

That's how I would do it-- flush with the desk, or 5 or 10 degree incline. the only reason desktop displays are mounted vertically now is because they evolved from TVs and CRTs required depth for the electron gun.

the vj said:
The problem is that the screen stoped working and the people at Troll Touch just didn't reply any of my emails and they blocked my phone number.

Wow, I can't believe they actually blocked your number-- I think that's a new low in customer service. You could, of course, post their customer service number here and we could all call them requesting that they service your display...

Tirgaya said:
Touch typing eh? I expect that a virtual keyboard will be included.

Of course I also expect that people will stop interacting with their computers that way.

I suggest that people will use handwriting recognition technologies.

I type so very much faster than I write... I think handwriting is better than little tiny PDA keyboards (if it's accurate enough), and I think things like Inkwell are great if you've already got the stylus in your hands, but I ain't going to be using it to post to forums any time soon...

NOV · Apr 28, 2007

I think the paradigm shift is that you will no longer operate your computer through one screen per se.
Your computer environment may consist of more than one interface with dedicated screens driven by the OS and software.

An example: in a music studio you may operate some tasks in Logic Audio through the keyboard/ mouse and interact by screen. The mixer/ recorder may be another device which is operated through a touch screen.

mrthieme · Apr 28, 2007

EagerDragon said:
You are thinking along the lines of typing documents and stuff. Think of other uses like in the demo of the interface, like painting, like retouching pictures, like film editing and music editing. Think of using gestures instead of keys.

Yes you can always use a keyboard when you need to type that document. But you dont need the keyboard to select the correct picture, rotate it, size it and place it at the correct location in the document.

This is exactly how I envision it, not a replacement for a keyboard with desktops, but an additional input choice for apps that work well with it.

I would expect to see it in a tablet or laptop first, if ever.

Of coarse, as many have noted, holding your arms out for an extended period on a desktop would be horrible, so a drafting table position is needed. Sorry to those who have seen this before, but I'm including a basic picture of my idea.

PCMacUser · Apr 28, 2007

EagerDragon said:
If you think about people sitting at a desk, reaching over to a screen that sits too high to confortably you your hands and fingers on, then you are absolutly correct. But ... if you stand instead is a lot more confortable to interact wit hte canvas.

Sorry, but I feel a moral obligation to let you know that it is COMFORTABLE, not confortable. Note, the 'm'.

jettredmont · Apr 28, 2007

EagerDragon said:
People have been painting on a canvas for years, reaching over with brushes in hand. Why they would not be able to paint on an electronic canvas with their fingers?

If you think about people sitting at a desk, reaching over to a screen that sits too high to confortably you your hands and fingers on, then you are absolutly correct. But ... if you stand instead is a lot more confortable to interact wit hte canvas. Also you can place your canvas flat on the desk or at an angle like a drafting board and again you are talking about a natural interface similar to what people been doing for years.

Placement makes a big difference when you use a human interface that uses your hands and fingers to directly interact with the objects in your canvas.

The problem is, people generally have not been painting on their canvases for 10-12 hours per day, seven days per week.

Ergonomically, this type of device requires a different usage pattern. It can work great for short bursts of enhanced expressivity, but would not work so great for writing a novel.

jettredmont · Apr 28, 2007

Macrumors said:
Synaptics first gained recognition for supplying the click-wheels for Apple's earlier iPods.

Sorry, can't just let that pass.

Synaptics has been around a lot longer than the iPod. All the best notebook trackpads came from Synaptics, and they generally had features (side scrolling areas, corners acting as buttons, etc) which other trackpads couldn't mimic.

Oh, and if you wanted the absolute best trackpad experience, you'd download Synaptic's own trackpad drivers, which would pop up a Synaptics flash screen on Windows startup and put a little icon in the system tray.

How did they "first gain recognition" for the click-wheels? I mean, ask any decent geek in 1998 what trackpad their Dell used and they could tell you Synaptics; ask any iPod user today what trackpad their iPod uses and they'll give you a blank stare.

Just a nit ...

roland.g · Apr 28, 2007

Touch screen for the dock and maybe menu bar makes more sense. While extending the multi-touch of the iPhone seems an inevitable progression for desktops, I agree it's not practical to raise your hands to the screen that much.

GodBless · Apr 29, 2007

The multi-touch screen will obviously be the dominate input device in the future. The mouse and keyboard will also be used as standard input devices and will have their advantages when it comes to certain uses but the touch screen will be used the most.

There will be two major problems however:
1. If the screen is mounted on a vertical surface then the arms will be strained after hours of work.
2. If the screen is flat on a table then the neck will be strained after hours of work.

When one problem is solved then the other remains--therefore a balance seems like the best solution. With that said here is my design:

Another idea that I received from a MacRumors member is putting a hinge on it for the screen to tilt up when wanted. The result with my design would be something this (from the side--without the ports):

The screen could magnetically attach to and detach from the wedge, easily, whenever the user desired to switch the screen's position.

My design would probably work even better if I flattened the front to make room for a keyboard so that the hands could work at a continuous angle between the multi-touch screen and the keyboard.

Shotglass · Apr 29, 2007

Nice to see you improved your design, GodBless, but I still think it's too thick.

GodBless · Apr 29, 2007

Shotglass said:
Nice to see you improved your design, GodBless, but I still think it's too thick.

Making it thinner would cause neck strain (as I mentioned in my previous post) since it would change the angle of the screen's resting position to a more flat position in the multi-touch position (i.e. magnetized to the wedge). Therefore changing it to the way that you suggested would be a step backwards (and would make an inferior design).

Also don't you see the benefit of the iMac having full-sized computer parts? Having the option to add and remove standard sized internal hardware components as part of the future iMac models would be a major benefit for many people.

72930 · Apr 29, 2007

GodBless said:
Making it thinner would cause neck strain

But right now its fugly, and Apple don't do fugly.

Remember how easily adjusted the iMac G4's screen was? Yours is much more complicated...

Sorry but I just don't like it...

GodBless · Apr 29, 2007

psychofreak said:
Remember how easily adjusted the iMac G4's screen was? Yours is much more complicated...

Yeah, my design is as complicated as a laptop's screen--apparently you think that's complicated--I don't.

RRK · Apr 29, 2007

GodBless said:
There will be two major problems however:

Then there is problem #3, UGLY.

Im gonna call it zomb"iMac".
It wont die and its eating my brains out.

Mord · Apr 29, 2007

I see a major problem with all this touch screen malarkey, I can't be arsed to wave my hands about like an idiot to work my computer it's a right pain in the arse and most of the time the screen will be obscured by your arms, it's just plain slow and inconvenient.

sure if one day such tech becomes cheap and if it's just a thin clear film then why not add it as an option so that you can just draw on any computer screen if you so wish but it's not replacing the keyboard and mouse.

if it did replace the keyboard and mouse it wouldn't be a feking wedge.

chevitron · Apr 29, 2007

mouse pad

Although undoubtfully we will see in the future some touch display capabilities, I believe that the multi-touch technology will replace the mouse (as a physical device). Think of the mouse pad as a new device (a larger trackpad) and using our fingers over the surface for pinching, rotating, double-tapping, etc.

On the other hand, I try to remember that Steve Jobs mentioned last year (when introducing Leopard and creating that Super Secret Apple Rumors podcast on the stage) that "the next iPod will be huge, with a 10" screen" or something like that. Yes, I know it was a joke, but it could make sense: large screen/small form-factor, no keyboard, larger storage capacityand tablet mac functionality...

Thanatoast · Apr 29, 2007

Software design will have to improve by an order of magnitude before a touchscreen computer becomes a viable reailty. Right now everything is geared toward use of a mouse pointer. Programs are built with it in mind. New software will have to change it's UI to compensate for use of fingers instead.

And why would we want a touch mousepad? Might as well have a mouse at that point. The screen is where the action is.

RRK · Apr 29, 2007

Thanatoast said:
And why would we want a touch mousepad? Might as well have a mouse at that point. The screen is where the action is.

The problem is you are thinking of multi-touch as touch-screen. Gestures is the difference, and maybe the mouse pad would also be a monitor.

mrxak · Apr 29, 2007

EagerDragon said:
People have been painting on a canvas for years, reaching over with brushes in hand. Why they would not be able to paint on an electronic canvas with their fingers?

If you think about people sitting at a desk, reaching over to a screen that sits too high to confortably you your hands and fingers on, then you are absolutly correct. But ... if you stand instead is a lot more confortable to interact wit hte canvas. Also you can place your canvas flat on the desk or at an angle like a drafting board and again you are talking about a natural interface similar to what people been doing for years.

Placement makes a big difference when you use a human interface that uses your hands and fingers to directly interact with the objects in your canvas.

You made me think of something really cool. How about a multi-touch monitor that's so sensitive that it can pick up and track every single hair on a brush? I think the Adobe crowd might get some drool on...

RRK · Apr 29, 2007

mrxak said:
You made me think of something really cool. How about a multi-touch monitor that's so sensitive that it can pick up and track every single hair on a brush? I think the Adobe crowd might get some drool on...

That would be awesome but doesn't Apple's technology have something to do with triangulating the position of your fingers based on disturbances in the electro magnetic field or something like that. Maybe I'm wrong but after swinging a hammer all day, typing "disturbances in the electro magnetic field" made me feel smart again.

twoodcc · Apr 29, 2007

cool idea....but i doubt it will be here anytime soon

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