'OpenMac' Promises $399 Headless Mac... But Not From Apple

^ Totally agree. Let's see one delivered unit. ONE. If they were serious, they'd have had the pieces parts ready, boxes printed and shipped at least a few out pronto to get a boatload of orders and real press. Come on, it would only cost $10k for a small company to have at least 40-50 units ready for launch.

Site, address, history leave much to be desired.

I think this a mute point until someone materializes with a purchased product.

NC MacGuy said:

^ Totally agree. Let's see one delivered unit. ONE. If they were serious, they'd have had the pieces parts ready, boxes printed and shipped at least a few out pronto to get a boatload of orders and real press. Come on, it would only cost $10k for a small company to have at least 40-50 units ready for launch.

Site, address, history leave much to be desired.

I think this a mute point until someone materializes with a purchased product.

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Second that. The media would have eaten this company up even more if they had delivered them a working unit to run tests on. Anyone thinking they will ship one may be in for a long, long, LONG wait.

Digital Skunk said:

Second that. The media would have eaten this company up even more if they had delivered them a working unit to run tests on. Anyone thinking they will ship one may be in for a long, long, LONG wait.

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I agree, I don't think that they will ever ship, and I am sorry for people who ordered one, because I do not think they will get their money back, and people will have their CC numbers.

k2spitfire88 said:

I agree, I don't think that they will ever ship, and I am sorry for people who ordered one, because I do not think they will get their money back, and people will have their CC numbers.

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An article on ZDnet (I think it was) stated "My credit card was charged Sunday" but who knows if it's true or not.

I still gotta point out this important fact about business. If you want to make your presence known and gain credibility. GET YOUR ADDRESS RIGHT!!! Your contact info would be one of the first things you would ensure is correct since it establishes a credible physical line of communication. Regardless if it's a basement or whorehouse... errr warehouse Being honest about that at least would be a good show rather than changing it 4-5 times claiming 'typo' If you misrepresent your business, a customer would be led to believe you'll most likely be misrepresenting your product.

I've seen the 'pics' on the web as I'm sure most of us have about this place but what I have YET to see is pics of the INSIDE!!! A lot of the skeptisism here boils around whether this company actually exists. I can take a picture of the outside of a building and claim it's my business, but until you go inside and see my company logo and talk to the receptionist you wouldn't know if it's Apple HQ or my companies HQ.

FYI, I did a yellow pages search on that address and it belongs to Vipal Rubber Co. They might be leasing it but... umm... leasing a 6mil building the rent is prolly as high as the mortage.

I'm still going to cry BS on this company until something else turns up.

NC MacGuy said:

^

I think this a mute point until someone materializes with a purchased product.

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spelling: "moot"

I agree with others, it's all talk until

1. We see units being delivered to customers

2. They work as advertised

3. No credit card fraud takes place

4. The inevitable legal challenge from Apple fails to take them out of business.

The fact that Apple has not made a public legal challenge yet may mean that their legal team is convinced that Psystar is so obviously not legit that there is no chance they'll actually end up doing business, and thus there is no need to go after them.

Hackintosh is a strictly DIY affair - and will stay that way for the time being.

Apparently they have started shipping from their 'new facility' starting today, for all orders placed before 7th april.

We'll wait and see i suppose, I'm just glad I'm not a Guinea pig!

http://www.psystar.com/up_and_running.html

Quillz said:

Theoretically, almost any decent x86 PC sold these days could run Leopard. So I don't think Psystar is doing anything illegal. After all, my Dell notebook could easily run Leopard, and yet it wasn't illegal for Dell to sell it to me.

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Of course they are doing something illegal. They are selling goods that are only useful if the purchaser then installs Leopard in breach of the EULA. Whether the EULA has any teeth against an end user (whether Apple could sue an end user and get damages) doesn't matter; this company encourages people to break a valid contract with Apple, which means they are illegally interfering with Apple's business.

What do you think why Dell isn't doing the same thing? Because they have lawyers that told them that advertising and selling a Dell computer as Leopard compatible without having a license from Apple would cost them dearly.

gnasher729 said:

What do you think why Dell isn't doing the same thing? Because they have lawyers that told them that advertising and selling a Dell computer as Leopard compatible without having a license from Apple would cost them dearly.

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This is something I brought up a while back (earlier like 40 or so pages back LOL) is that how come pc manufacturers like IBM/Acer/Dell/HP/Compaq/Gateway/blabla the list goes on, refuse to make pc's that for one, are leopard compatible and for some they have even had discussions with Apple and begged them to license the OS to them so they COULD sell machines with OSX on it.

YET

Some small company out of nowhere says they're going to do it and THEIR lawyers say it's illegal for Apple to sell the OS this way when all these other companies lawyers who are probably more compitent in regards to contracts EULA's and the IT and IP realm are telling them "don't do it, not a good idea"??

Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread

Goldenbear said:

As much as I want a headless Mac, this isn't it.

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As a fairly recent switcher *2 yrs ago*, I feel exactly the same way. I really hope Apple reconsiders and gives us a mid range tower of some sort. I want a Mac, not a pc posing as a Mac.

Ladybug said:

As a fairly recent switcher *2 yrs ago*, I feel exactly the same way. I really hope Apple reconsiders and gives us a mid range tower of some sort. I want a Mac, not a pc posing as a Mac.

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From reading these posts and others, it seems like Apple would make a killing on a mid-range tower. That's the one thing I really miss about my sawtooth, the expandability Not too fond of this all in one iMac bit but couldn't afford the MacPro at the time.

For those of you who say this was a scam, do some digging on insanelymac. If anything, we should start to see a few posts of these orders fulfilled in the next week.

kkat69 said:

This is something I brought up a while back (earlier like 40 or so pages back LOL) is that how come pc manufacturers like IBM/Acer/Dell/HP/Compaq/Gateway/blabla the list goes on, refuse to make pc's that for one, are leopard compatible and for some they have even had discussions with Apple and begged them to license the OS to them so they COULD sell machines with OSX on it.

YET

Some small company out of nowhere says they're going to do it and THEIR lawyers say it's illegal for Apple to sell the OS this way when all these other companies lawyers who are probably more compitent in regards to contracts EULA's and the IT and IP realm are telling them "don't do it, not a good idea"??

Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread

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For them being certified for an operating system is pretty big when it comes to sales. Its also crucial for warranty type stuff. Pystar, if it actually exists, is a home-build type reseller. It takes off the shelf parts and makes a computer out of them. The consumer isn't expecting much, if anything, in terms of a warranty or support.

icoffee said:

From reading these posts and others, it seems like Apple would make a killing on a mid-range tower. That's the one thing I really miss about my sawtooth, the expandability Not too fond of this all in one iMac bit but couldn't afford the MacPro at the time.

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I know the feeling. I love leopard, but the iMac doesn't hold a candle to my old G3. I almost wished I replaced my iBook with a Macbook and then went to velocity Micro to fill my desktop needs.

BenRoethig said:

For them being certified for an operating system is pretty big when it comes to sales. Its also crucial for warranty type stuff. Pystar, if it actually exists, is a home-build type reseller. It takes off the shelf parts and makes a computer out of them. The consumer isn't expecting much, if anything, in terms of a warranty or support.

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I was referring to the legality of the situation. Axiotron does it with their mod book but that's a completely different case since they are buying hardware from Apple and repacking it.

If the top tier pc manufacturers do it, basic hardware support is pretty much same all around. It's the OS support that would require some training.

Again, I was speaking more of legality. I'm pretty positive if it were 'legal' the pc manuf. would have done it already or at least offered "Mac compatible" systems, kinda like the stickers "Works with Vista" there would be "Works with Leopard" (yes i Know there would be a royalty and trademark infringment) and it's probably THAT reason and others why these guys haven't done it yet.

My other major point is how some pro-bono laywer working for psystar can say it's illegal other than his/her own interpretation of the law and other, many other lawyers say nay nay.

Ladybug said:

As a fairly recent switcher *2 yrs ago*, I feel exactly the same way. I really hope Apple reconsiders and gives us a mid range tower of some sort. I want a Mac, not a pc posing as a Mac.

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But even Apple's own Macs *ARE* PCs posing as Macs. It's why they can run Windows straight out of the box. I'm afraid the days of Apple having unique hardware are over. Now they have unique cases and that's about the extent of it. They hold onto things like EFI in the Intel realm only so it's harder for you to stuff MacOSX onto your store bought PC clone. But it also keeps you from buying a PC version of an Nvidia 8600GT and throwing it in your new MacPro. It forces you to buy Apple's version of that card and pay considerably more money than the card is worth. These decisions are not consumer friendly. They are Apple friendly. They help Apple take more of your money and some of you even thank them for it. Try to find a sale on an Apple hardware item. Good luck save a few clearance sales and what not. They make sure their products cost the same everywhere they're sold. Apple's business tactics often even make Microsoft look consumer friendly. I can virtually guarantee if Apple were the #1 OS retailer out there they would be in the middle of their own Justice Department investigation for anti-trust maneuvering and trying to keep competitors from operating easily on their platform because their tactics are WORSE than Microsoft. They want to control every aspect of the software AND the hardware. Now you can say that's their right all you want and you're entitled to your opinion, but anti-trust laws exist for a reason in the United States. It's to keep a company from unscrupulous practices such as to artificially increase the price of a product far beyond its material value simply because no one else is allowed to create a competitive product or is made to jump through endless hoops to do so or to give up 30% of their profit off the top (Mafia style) just to sell a software app for their platform (read iPhone).

"But you can simply not buy Apple products!" I can simply not buy Microsoft products as well, but if I want to run certain software or I'm required to do so, my hands are tied and I'm forced to deal with Microsoft's OS or Apple products. Where is the open competition? There's a difference between creating a toy/radio and a software platform (i.e. computer or intelligent phone). A toy runs only its hard-wired or rom software. A platform loads new software just like any computer. Other than game consoles, since when are companies allowed to decide who and what can run on their computer systems? Honestly, I don't believe even game console makers should be allowed to decide that. It should be up to the public what software they support and buy. Countries like the United States grant PRIVILEGES to businesses such as patents that expire over time so they can make money off their ideas. They were NEVER meant to last forever or guarantee a company has more rights than a citizen. The government is for and by the people, not for and by Apple or Microsoft. Sadly, government corruption has lead to special interests screwing over the citizens of their own countries time and time again. And THAT is where the real problems lie with things like the DMCA, which counteract previous rulings such as "fair use" with analog copying, as if there were a real difference between analog and digital. They are methods, not different concepts.

Legally, we don't know if these license agreements will stand up in court. We really haven't had a situation where a computer company running on common x86 hardware has tried to restrict an operating system to it own hardware.

MagnusVonMagnum said:

But it also keeps you from buying a PC version of an Nvidia 8600GT and throwing it in your new MacPro. It forces you to buy Apple's version of that card and pay considerably more money than the card is worth.

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Yes and no. Technically EFI Roms are open standards. That being said, since windows does not support EFI and the only Mac OS X machine with a PCI-E slot is well over $2000, the chances of anyone making EFI (or dual ROM BIOS/EFI) cards are slim.

still hope?

according to psystar, they shipped units today.

still waiting to see if this is where my surplus check should go...

Pictures of the PsyStar Store here

Source and description: http://gizmodo.com/382179/psystar-update-first-pictures-of-their-sign

BenRoethig said:

Legally, we don't know if these license agreements will stand up in court. We really haven't had a situation where a computer company running on common x86 hardware has tried to restrict an operating system to it own hardware.

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You are talking here about license agreements. What license agreements? There is no license agreement between Apple and PsyStar. If PsyStar ever sells a single computer, Apple won't go after them because of any license agreement, but for tortuous interference with Apple's business.

icoffee said:

Source and description: http://gizmodo.com/382179/psystar-update-first-pictures-of-their-sign

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Holy bad Photoshop job, Batman! What is this, April Fool's again?

icoffee said:

Source and description: http://gizmodo.com/382179/psystar-update-first-pictures-of-their-sign

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Yah I saw that, no disrespect to the gizmodo guys, but that looks like a bad photoshop... nah MSPAINT job.

And I wanna see that guys Handicap sticker!!!

Besides, has anyone seen this on gizmodo:

Update 12: It seems like credit cards are starting to get billed? Reader Yariv sends in this super weird credit card statement of tons of $9.99 charges that supposedly add up to $399. We're not sure about this one. There's nothing there that ties these charges to Psystar. Has anyone else purchased a machine and gotten billed for it? Let us know. My email's on the left side of the page. Hopefully we can either confirm or smash whether cards are being charged yet.

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A bunch of 9.99 charges? No PayPal??? didn't they say they were going to use paypal? And why do multiple charges of 9.99??

I've said it before, credibility.

Ohhhh we can flamewar back and forth about the start of Apple but keep in mind, no eCommerce back then, and Steve and Woz had a good reputation to begin with and were taking orders manually rather than via paypal or via website.

Also said this one before, it would be in their best interest to blow suspicion over to deliver a couple machines if they are indeed the same people behind the razorfx.com scandle.

Still crying BS on this one.

omg!

lol. that is the closest thing to legit evidence we have seen.

still having a $200 vinyl sign doesn't mean your not still just an elaborate "phishing" operation.

edit: on second glance that does look like a bad photoshop job

kkat69 said:

Yah I saw that, no disrespect to the gizmodo guys, but that looks like a bad photoshop... nah MSPAINT job.

And I wanna see that guys Handicap sticker!!!

Besides, has anyone seen this on gizmodo:


A bunch of 9.99 charges? No PayPal??? didn't they say they were going to use paypal? And why do multiple charges of 9.99??

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The 9.99 was to pay for the PsyStar sign in the window. Obviously it didn't cost a penny more.

gnasher729 said:

You are talking here about license agreements. What license agreements? There is no license agreement between Apple and PsyStar. If PsyStar ever sells a single computer, Apple won't go after them because of any license agreement, but for tortuous interference with Apple's business.

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Your kidding right?

BenRoethig is referring to the license agreement we must 'agree' to prior to installing the OS. Without agreeing to it, ie, your digitally signed understanding and acceptance of the agreement you can't install the OS.

End User - Company this really hasn't been challenged. Company to Company if I'm not mistaken this has been challenged and companies have been fined. Maybe some savvy snooper can find an example.

In this case the argument is, is Psystar illegally using the Apple IP to promote sales and by pre-installing Apple OS on non-Apple hardware (against the license agreement) commiting a persuable crime.