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Old Apr 8, 2008, 10:28 PM   #101
Fromasta Flex
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Well, ideally you want to try to get away with it as high as you can. Having said that the higher you go the closer you are getting to hitting the 5g ipods bitrate spike limit. To make matters even more confusing, it will only rear its ugly head on very complex scenes. Some movies might work fine with no vbv settings applied whatsoever. So use a source where you have seen frame drop before so you have a constant. I have a few benchmark movies I use to test. The worse I have seen it Harry Potter Order of the Phoenix. The frame dropping happens right at the beginning during the first chapter. If the iPod doesnt drop frames there, its not likely to and you have found the sweet spot.

I would keep working with the settings that are working well for you for now.
I've been using a train chase scene from Indiana Jones as my test because its pretty complex, and when the vbv maxrate is set to 2500 it drops frames, but not when its at 3000. Doesn't that not make any sense since it would be closer to its spike limit? I guess I don't really need to understand as long as it works, I'll just have to examine all of my encodes from now on. Thanks for everything!
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 09:17 AM   #102
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Yes - if there is an AC3 audio track then the file extension *must* be m4v otherwise it will be deemed an invalid mp4 file.
I really dislike this aspect of the ATV. If Apple would simply license Dolby Live you could put in an AAC encoded 5.1 and have it convert to DD 5.1 on the fly. This would mean you could have all the channels, but still have a much smaller file. It would also continue to play just fine on other devices, the only hardware that would need the DL would be the ATV, which is highly likely to be attached to a DD AV system.

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Old Apr 15, 2008, 10:09 AM   #103
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I really dislike this aspect of the ATV. If Apple would simply license Dolby Live you could put in an AAC encoded 5.1 and have it convert to DD 5.1 on the fly. This would mean you could have all the channels, but still have a much smaller file. It would also continue to play just fine on other devices, the only hardware that would need the DL would be the ATV, which is highly likely to be attached to a DD AV system.

Maury
Why would you want to do AC3 -> AAC -> AC3? I'd imagine that would have a pretty negative effect on the audio quality. I agree this would have been a nice solution, but I am perfectly happy with what Apple has done here.
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Old Apr 16, 2008, 08:31 AM   #104
Maury
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Why would you want to do AC3 -> AAC -> AC3? I'd imagine that would have a pretty negative effect on the audio quality.
So does MP3. The cost/performance ratio is huge.

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Old Jun 4, 2008, 01:40 PM   #105
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Does anybody know what video settings iTunes uses for its TV Shows and Films?
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 02:40 PM   #106
NightStorm
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Does anybody know what video settings iTunes uses for its TV Shows and Films?
Not really applicable... I'm sure the studios don't simply hand Apple a DVD and tell them to use Handbrake on it.

In short, they start with a much better source.
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Old Jun 6, 2008, 02:36 AM   #107
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Not really applicable... I'm sure the studios don't simply hand Apple a DVD and tell them to use Handbrake on it.

In short, they start with a much better source.
I have found that not all of the movies I buy on iTunes come out to be great quality on my TV. For example, Crimson Tide. It looks good on my iPhone but when I have my MacBook connected via HDMI to my TV, it is very blocky. At the same time, my Handbrake version of the movie looks TONS better. Why is that?
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Old Jun 6, 2008, 02:54 AM   #108
oli2140
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Originally Posted by NightStorm View Post
Not really applicable... I'm sure the studios don't simply hand Apple a DVD and tell them to use Handbrake on it.

In short, they start with a much better source.
Haha, I know that they don't have to Handbrake their films. The reason I was asking is because it works with iPods AND Apple TVs and both look pretty good. There must be a way to replicate the quality and the compatibility of these files to a degree on Handbrake.
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 10:37 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by oli2140 View Post
Does anybody know what video settings iTunes uses for its TV Shows and Films?
You can look at the stats on those files by viewing the "Summary" window of the "Get Info" choice in iTunes for the individual file.
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Old Jun 16, 2008, 02:08 AM   #110
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I have been running some tests of this with these settings and I cannot get AC-3 to output when included with AAC. I have installed and configured Perian on my Mac Mini that is toslinked to my Yamaha AVR. I get 6.1 using the Incredibles as a test with just AC-3 Passthrough, but when I add in AAC, I only get Dolby Prologic II in Front Row and QuickTime. Also, VLC complains about not having an AC-3 codec? Why won't it pass it through as it would with the DVD? Also the PCM light is on on the AVR.

Am I doing something wrong or is this as expected?
Hmm... In System Preferences, do you have Perian set for Multi-Channel audio output?
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 11:59 AM   #111
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this may be related to ukor's problem :

on my first few handbrake test encodes, i was able to get DD 5.1 audio just fine with some dvd content via Apple TV. Recently however i've been noticing that even if i use the AAC+AC3 Audio setting (like i did with the first few successful 5.1 encodes) I am only getting Prologic on the handbrake encodes when I watch on my Apple TV. Occasionally it seems to give me the 5.1 on an encode but only 1 out of my last 10 encodes (all of which had 5.1 audio tracks selected and the AC3 selected in handbrake output "track 1 mix").
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Old Jul 9, 2008, 01:31 PM   #112
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Size?

I am converting the first episode of the first season of The Sopranos. It is 1:00:04 long.

Setting used (Windows version of HB):

iPod High Rez Preset
Unchecked Insert iPod atom
Changed Audio Encoder to AAC + AC3
Checked Loose Anamorphic and changed the width to 640
Selected 2 Pass Encoding and Turbo First Pass
Changed average bitrate to 2500kbps
Changed subtitles to Autoselect and checked Forced Subtitles Only
Changed vbv-maxrate=2500;vbv-buffsize=2000

Everything else I left as is. The resulting m4v's size is 1.27 GB. Seems pretty high for an hour episode.

Does anyone have any settings I could change that would perserve as much quality as I can but get the size of the file down a bit?
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Old Jul 9, 2008, 03:02 PM   #113
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Does anyone know the settings for a PS3? I tried a couple of settings in handbrake and it's won't play. Any idea's? Thanks!


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Old Jul 12, 2008, 09:09 AM   #114
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Anyone try using the AppleTV preset and reducing the number of b-frames to 0 for iPod compatibility?

I thought I read somewhere else that a limiting factor in the iPod is that it can't handle b-frames?
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 03:19 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by eclipse525 View Post
Does anyone know the settings for a PS3? I tried a couple of settings in handbrake and it's won't play. Any idea's? Thanks!
At least the Windows Version of Handbrake has presets for PS3, or look for the right CLI arguments here.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 10:26 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by kjr39 View Post
I thought I read somewhere else that a limiting factor in the iPod is that it can't handle b-frames?
Correct, iPods cannot handle b-frames.
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 07:38 PM   #117
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I don't know how many of you are in the same situation as me, but I have a few Apple devices I'd like to play my media on. I'd also like to have only 1 file that plays across all the platforms and has the best quality/size ratio possible. I've looked online for such a solution but found mixed results so I've decided to run my own tests using the newly released HandBrake version 0.9.2

I'm testing the files on various devices. They are as follows:
  • iTunes 7.6
  • Apple TV Take 2
  • iPhone with 1.1.3 Firmware
  • 3g iPod nano with 1.1. Firmware

My hardware is a MacBook with a 2Ghz Core 2 duo and 3GB of RAM. I'm ripping chapter 1 of the "Groundhog Day" widescreen DVD which has 5.1 audio and multiple languages. For quality, I always do 2-pass encoding as it helps immensely with fast scene changes. For benchmark purposes, I get 60fps average on the 1st pass and 19fps average on the 2nd pass at the 1500 kbps bitrate.

Alright here's my results placed into a nice easy to read chart. Basically what I can gather is that the HandBrake team has done a great job in terms of compatibility and that Apple has understated the iPhone/iPod's potential. I'm happy to find that both my iPod and iPhone were able to handle the full sized anamorphic DVD rip with 4 audio tracks (AAC and AC3).

The settings I choose were based off the "iPod High" preset. My rationale for the tested resolutions is based off Apple's published iPhone/iPod specs. http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html According to them, the max resolution the iPhone can handle is 640x480 @ 1500kbps. I found out what this actually means is that the max pixel count the iPhone can handle is 307,200 pixels (640 times 480). So the 720x400 was the highest you can get a widescreen rip (non-anamorphic) and still be under the max pixel count (288,000 px).

Surprisingly though, the iPhone/iPod were able to handle the full resolution 708x466 (329,928 px) without complaints. Since the resolution limit was higher that I expected, I decided to test other bit-rates as well. I tried both 2500 and then 5000kbps. The results are as follows.

Important note: You HAVE to choose the iPod/iPhone preset first and crank up the setting from there if you want to get these high quality cross-device files. If you choose the Apple TV preset and go from there they won't work. I'm guessing it's got something to do with the advanced flags. Also, it didn't matter if I checked the "iPod Atom" flag or not. I'm not sure anymore what it's for, maybe some older iPods require it but I don't have any to test with.

Here's the results:

Extrapolating the data, the average sizes for a 90 minute movie file should be as follows:
  • All@1500kbps, 2x AAC: 1,188 MB
  • All@1500kbps, 1x AAC, 1x AC3: 1,360 MB
  • All@1500kbps, 2x AAC, 2x AC3: 1,620 MB
  • Anamorphic @ 2500: 2,340 MB
  • Anamorphic @ 5000: 4,000 MB

OK so conclusions. Looks like the devices can handle much more than I thought they could. I've done tests before and it used to be I couldn't get the anamorphic or the higher bitrate files to play on my iPhone. So it looks like I can start upping the quality of my rips and not worry about compatibility. On the downside, my previous rips now feel old and outdated lol.

The settings I'll probably use on movies from now on are the Anamorphic Strict setting for the highest resolution possible and 2500kbps video. I did always feel 1500 was lacking clarity on the Apple TV so it's nice to be able to increase that. 5000kbps seems like over kill to me since I can't really notice a difference between that and 2500kbps. It's also pushing the 4GB file limit people seem to run into trouble with. I'll leave the 5000+AC3 for my HD rips, those can really benefit from it.

Still not sure about audio since it only benefits the Apple TV. The size jump is also quite high for the high quality AC3 tracks. I'd rather have 2 different languages than the 5.1 surround sound with the added size penalty. But that's just personal choice.

The results are not conclusive as I have yet to try a full screen DVD and one of those ultra widescreen DVDs, but given the iPhone/iPod outperformed, I think I'll find similar results with those.
I was curious to know how long it takes your computer to convert a 90 minute movie using the anamorphic strict setting at 2500kbps?
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Old Jul 24, 2008, 03:40 PM   #118
ScootPatoot
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mkv Files?

I thought HB would be able to convert a .mkv file? It doesn't show up in the file box when trying to select a file.

Doese anyone have any recommendations on a good mkv file converter that will produce great video/sound quality for AppleTV/iPhone?

Edit: I'm using a Windows box.
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Old Jul 24, 2008, 04:03 PM   #119
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HB does transcoding from VOB files. But that might be changing, right Dyna?
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Old Jul 25, 2008, 01:07 AM   #120
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Handbrake query

You seem pretty savvy with the Handbrake program . Do you know if there is a way to include DVD extras in the encoding process ? Specifically for Ipod touch ? Gregoryt
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Old Jul 29, 2008, 09:48 AM   #121
Tweeksy
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Originally Posted by oleus23@aol.com View Post
this may be related to ukor's problem :

on my first few handbrake test encodes, i was able to get DD 5.1 audio just fine with some dvd content via Apple TV. Recently however i've been noticing that even if i use the AAC+AC3 Audio setting (like i did with the first few successful 5.1 encodes) I am only getting Prologic on the handbrake encodes when I watch on my Apple TV. Occasionally it seems to give me the 5.1 on an encode but only 1 out of my last 10 encodes (all of which had 5.1 audio tracks selected and the AC3 selected in handbrake output "track 1 mix").
Same here, lots of issues getting ac3 using the HB Appletv preset, have resigned to using 160kbps aac dolby prologic II as it reliably gives me a surround sound-track!

Anyone know of a workaround?
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Old Jul 29, 2008, 10:18 AM   #122
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HB does transcoding from VOB files. But that might be changing, right Dyna?
That's the rumor.
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Old Aug 2, 2008, 04:00 AM   #123
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Please help

Hi,
I just bought a brand new mac mini 160 gig 2ghz core 2 duo mac os x 10.5.4 with itunes itunes 7.7.1 the latest from auto update and an iomega 750 gig extra harddrive.
I need to copy in more than 200 dvds.
I also got a new iphone 3g 16 gig.

So I got the latest handbrake 0.9.2 so I am set.
I recorded in 2 of my dvd witht he appletv Cocktail that was 1.7 gig and wedding crashers 2.6 gig.
I want the best quality.
So the problem if they dont load on the iphone also.
What is the best way to adjust it so it works on iphone but still has the best quality.
I tried to convert the files to iphone format after with Visual hub and this just takes forever.
So I guest I need to use the appletv profile and make a few adjustments so the quality only goes a little down but then works on the iphone?
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Old Aug 2, 2008, 08:39 AM   #124
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What is the best way to adjust it so it works on iPhone but still has the best quality?
So I guest I need to use the Apple TV profile and make a few adjustments so the quality only goes a little down but then works on the iPhone?
I would suggest you rip all of your movies with the Apple TV preset, and then rip the ones which you plan to put on your iPhone with the iPhone preset. This will give you the best quality on your Apple TV, and smaller file sizes for your iPhone.

If you would prefer to not have 2 copies of certain movies, the iPod Hi-Res preset will be an ok compromise. As a test, you could rip a movie with the Apple TV preset and the iPod Hi-Res preset, then watch them on your Apple TV and compare the quality.
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Old Aug 2, 2008, 08:42 AM   #125
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If you want the best quality, plan for the future as well.

Rip using Mac The Ripper to get every bit available from the original source for your archives, and then rip from these using handbrake for AppleTV and iPod. Standards will improve, and you want the best resolution possible to support future standards. Best of all, you can then recycle your DVDs and reduce the clutter.
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