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Old Jun 14, 2008, 07:30 AM   #76
gmecca2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Velvet View Post

It is Arn's site and forum, a privately-owned space and one which we (the mods, admins, the owner) organise and run on a daily basis. The Marketplace could be removed tomorrow if Arn wished.

As stated elsewhere, administering it in its current state is becoming problematic disproportionate to its relevance within the entire site. Everyone who works here and it is work are volunteers who give hours of their time each day to ensure this site is run for the benefit of its members. Time spent on Marketplace problems means less time to develop site features or correct problems elsewhere.

So, given that we have taken nine months discussing and fine-tuning these changes while also taking the views of members into account, I personally feel that no, we're not playing Big Brother; we're aiming to give the broadest, simplest and most inclusive solution benefitting members and staff to a problem that's been acknowledged for years. Because we do not impose any transaction fees, it is surely the site owner's prerogative to do with this space as he sees fit.

We envisage fewer problems with post spamming to reach the new titles and in any case, these problems are easier to spot and deal with. The new Marketplace will not even be visible to those who do not meet the requirements and it will not be widely advertised.

What we are also doing by this is emphasising that it is forum participation and engagement that makes up an important part of being a known quantity to the rest of the community. Being a lurker, regardless of propriety, is not conducive to establishing a bond with other forum members.

Though I dislike the changes I also understand what you are trying to accomplish although my tone in the last post may not seem so.

I understand it's Arn's site and he may do whatever he pleases. I never doubted that moderators don't work, my brother runs a website and I tell him all the time that the time required to run it isn't worth the amount of time required to update content, monitor, and modify. It can become a very low paying full time job depending on the whether it was set up for profit or solely developed over a passion for a specific interest. I don't believe this site was developed to generate massive revenue based on the fact I see limited ads, its more so a site developed for us mac enthusiasts to come together and discuss our passion.

I probably won't be a big thing for new members because as they say "you don't miss what you never had", but for someone like myself who has enjoyed the fruits of the marketplace and already felt restricted due a low post count and then have the standard rise its was disappointing.

I used the term "big brother" in the previous post because it felt like, I had to be reminded that there are some "mean people" out there in the "internet world" and that you wanted to remind and protect me so you decided to take away my privileges. I guess I just get tired of changes due to peoples stupidity, and I am sure plenty of these problems were caused by them. I know everytime I do an online transaction I could get screwed but that's why I limit my purchase to a certain price level. I don't have the trust in people to send them $1600 for a MBA no matter how long I may have known them online.

Anyways- Keep up the great work, clean up the BS
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Old Jun 14, 2008, 07:39 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by gmecca2 View Post
...clean up the BS
Oh, we will.

Hope that we'll see more of you around here, and given a reasonable posting rate by getting involved in the huge range of topics here, access may come quicker than you may think.
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Old Jun 14, 2008, 08:05 AM   #78
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Excellent FAQ. Thanks for your work guys,
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Old Jun 14, 2008, 08:05 AM   #79
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I agree that a lot of time can be lost searching for the right listing in the UK, a mandatory country in the title or other means would be useful.
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Old Jun 14, 2008, 08:19 AM   #80
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I agree with this, nice move! I think I suggested waiting 6 months a long time ago too.
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 09:43 PM   #81
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Well, that kinda sucks. I don't tend to buy things from forums but this one's a little different because of the tech focus. Oh well.
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 10:24 PM   #82
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Oh well; looks like I won't have marketplace access for like a month...

Will be unable to post threads or not view them at all?
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 10:49 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaod View Post
Oh well; looks like I won't have marketplace access for like a month...

Will be unable to post threads or not view them at all?


Marketplace threads won't show up 'til the requirements are met .. IIRC
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 11:04 PM   #84
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Although I don't use the marketplace too much, it has turned out to be really convenient when I do. Fortunately I haven't had anything below an excellent transaction, but I do applaud the efforts of everyone involved in putting this together in hopes of making the MR marketplace a safer place to buy & sell.
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Old Jun 16, 2008, 01:59 AM   #85
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Good changes!

Hopefully, these will improve the MR marketplace.
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Old Jun 16, 2008, 09:44 AM   #86
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I applaud the changes and hope they work for you.

I run another forum that has been online for almost 7 years. We went through the same progressions with our "marketplace" forum. We ended up differently though. On our site, only paid members can start threads in the marketplace forum but all members can read or reply in threads. It works well for us because it allows all members to participate and at the same time generating revenue to keep the site going.

The marketplace here is a valuable resource and I completely understand the changes. Sometimes you have to strike a balance between time spent moderating on and off topic forums. I don't think folks realize the time it takes to run huge forums like this. Even with a large team of mods and admins, it takes a lot of work and dedication.

I would highly recommend to anyone who has already saved money in the marketplace forum to show your appreciation and become a paid member of MacRumors by clicking here. Well worth the $25!

Last edited by Chris Blount; Jun 16, 2008 at 10:39 AM.
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Old Jun 16, 2008, 01:34 PM   #87
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I agree that this is a good move- it will certainly make using the marketplace a much safer experience.
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Old Jun 17, 2008, 10:11 AM   #88
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Good move. Great work!

I've been on here almost every day for the past week and I've only just noticed the 6502a!
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Old Jun 18, 2008, 07:38 PM   #89
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I've been using the Marketplace for over a year and have spent about $7,000 here, each time making quick, prompt payments...and suddenly I can't use it? That's disappointing to say the least.

Is there a way to see your post count?
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Old Jun 18, 2008, 07:39 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpy View Post
I've been using the Marketplace for over a year and have spent about $7,000 here, each time making quick, prompt payments...and suddenly I can't use it? That's disappointing to say the least.

Is there a way to see your post count?
Click on your name next to your message posting. Choose view public profile. You have 74 posts now.
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Old Jun 18, 2008, 07:42 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by flyinmac View Post
Click on your name next to your message posting. Choose view public profile. You have 74 posts now.
Thanks for the help, flyinmac.
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Old Jun 18, 2008, 07:45 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpy View Post
Thanks for the help, flyinmac.
You're welcome.

It is always disappointing when weeding out the troublemakers hits honest people as well. It's hard to come up with rules that don't affect honest people too.

I'm sorry to see that you'll be affected. Sounds like you've done a fair bit of trading.
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Old Jun 18, 2008, 08:44 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Velvet View Post
Who is going to monitor all of these transactions to ensure they meet that requirement? And since many sales don't even stipulate a price, inviting offers instead, that makes it even more problematic.




It is Arn's site and forum, a privately-owned space and one which we (the mods, admins, the owner) organise and run on a daily basis. The Marketplace could be removed tomorrow if Arn wished.

As stated elsewhere, administering it in its current state is becoming problematic disproportionate to its relevance within the entire site. Everyone who works here and it is work are volunteers who give hours of their time each day to ensure this site is run for the benefit of its members. Time spent on Marketplace problems means less time to develop site features or correct problems elsewhere.

So, given that we have taken nine months discussing and fine-tuning these changes while also taking the views of members into account, I personally feel that no, we're not playing Big Brother; we're aiming to give the broadest, simplest and most inclusive solution benefitting members and staff to a problem that's been acknowledged for years. Because we do not impose any transaction fees, it is surely the site owner's prerogative to do with this space as he sees fit.

We envisage fewer problems with post spamming to reach the new titles and in any case, these problems are easier to spot and deal with. The new Marketplace will not even be visible to those who do not meet the requirements and it will not be widely advertised.

What we are also doing by this is emphasising that it is forum participation and engagement that makes up an important part of being a known quantity to the rest of the community. Being a lurker, regardless of propriety, is not conducive to establishing a bond with other forum members.
Dang, I need you to reword my 1.5 page 8 point font contract terms and disclaimer rider.

On topic, I think the nominal post count is a good idea and if a user is only here to sell they may be better suited to ebay. No posts required but you will pay a fee.... If anyone really wanted, they could go MJ and get 100 posts in an hour if needed so it's not that big a deal.
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Old Jun 18, 2008, 08:51 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC MacGuy View Post
If anyone really wanted, they could go MJ and get 100 posts in an hour if needed so it's not that big a deal.


And I say that 80% of said posts would be classified under 'spam'...


MJ's posts are quick but very helpful too...
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Old Jun 19, 2008, 02:02 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by flyinmac View Post
You're welcome.

It is always disappointing when weeding out the troublemakers hits honest people as well. It's hard to come up with rules that don't affect honest people too.

I'm sorry to see that you'll be affected. Sounds like you've done a fair bit of trading.
Yeah, I've done a ton of trading here.

I read the forums regularly, but to be honest, with the amount of users MR has I find that I have nothing to add to a thread that hasn't already been said by the time I read it, and have no desire to spam useless "Me too" posts to threads just to get my post count higher.

I'm really curious to see how this will affect the Marketplace - you're going to see a large decrease in volume, never a good thing for people looking to sell things.

Ah well, it was nice while it lasted. I guess it'll have to be Craigslist from now on. Anyone have any other good buying/selling/trading sites (other than Ebay, of course)?
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Old Jun 19, 2008, 02:18 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpy View Post
Yeah, I've done a ton of trading here.

I read the forums regularly, but to be honest, with the amount of users MR has I find that I have nothing to add to a thread that hasn't already been said by the time I read it, and have no desire to spam useless "Me too" posts to threads just to get my post count higher.

I'm really curious to see how this will affect the Marketplace - you're going to see a large decrease in volume, never a good thing for people looking to sell things.

Ah well, it was nice while it lasted. I guess it'll have to be Craigslist from now on. Anyone have any other good buying/selling/trading sites (other than Ebay, of course)?
Yeah, craigslist works pretty good for most stuff. But, I really haven't been inspired by computer stuff I've seen locally. Usually ridiculously priced, or not even stuff that would work for me.

Mac stuff is rare to see second hand around here. We have places to buy it new. But, the number of consumers buying them is small. So, second hand stuff is rare. I can't even think of anyone I know who has a Mac (besides my father who has some really old stuff that he salvaged from garbage bins).

But, I am the absolute only person I know that has a Mac that is in use (well my wife has one and my 4 year old). But, otherwise...

So, when I see Mac stuff on craigslist, it's usually priced at some extreme number that I'd just assume go buy a new one.
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Old Jun 19, 2008, 02:51 PM   #97
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I feel the need to reiterate this point, because it appears that some people are looking over the major reason for this change. By requiring people to have a 250 post count, it will help to develop a better understanding about who the person is, and if they are trustworthy. Somebody would have to spend a fair deal of time editing their posts and being extremely careful as to what they say if they were to be an untrustworthy person, and attempt to pass off the point that they were not so. By having 250 posts, if somebody were planning on making a large financial transaction, then they would have a larger amount of posts to read over to understand as to who they are dealing with. I understand how people are complaining that they are being prevented from a right on the forum, but it is not a right, but rather a privilege. You might be a trustworthy person with only 30 posts, but somebody planning on making a $1500 transaction with you wants to have a little bit more proof than 30 posts from somebody. Even if you have been a long time member here, but are more of a lurker than a poster, than you probably haven't developed much for a name for yourself, and there won't be as much of a spool of posts for somebody to read over.
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Old Jun 19, 2008, 03:15 PM   #98
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I feel the need to reiterate this point, because it appears that some people are looking over the major reason for this change. By requiring people to have a 250 post count, it will help to develop a better understanding about who the person is, and if they are trustworthy. Somebody would have to spend a fair deal of time editing their posts and being extremely careful as to what they say if they were to be an untrustworthy person, and attempt to pass off the point that they were not so. By having 250 posts, if somebody were planning on making a large financial transaction, then they would have a larger amount of posts to read over to understand as to who they are dealing with. I understand how people are complaining that they are being prevented from a right on the forum, but it is not a right, but rather a privilege. You might be a trustworthy person with only 30 posts, but somebody planning on making a $1500 transaction with you wants to have a little bit more proof than 30 posts from somebody. Even if you have been a long time member here, but are more of a lurker than a poster, than you probably haven't developed much for a name for yourself, and there won't be as much of a spool of posts for somebody to read over.

Quite valid and agreeable points.

I don't have an issue with the new rules. But, I do see how it would be inconvenient to some.

Perhaps the new users mostly. I suppose what might actually be useful to new users would be a place where you could go for honest transactions and reasonable prices with Mac stuff.

I used to frequent a mailing list LEM Swap Group

http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap

And, that worked really well. It's a group of pretty established users, and is fairly safe. I've done a lot of trades there.

But, they instituted a new rule that required you to publicly provide your full name, address, and other such details in the public space.

And, to be honest, I'm not comfortable doing so. Not because of anything to hide. Just that I am a rather private person. I do not wish for everything I do online to be coupled with my personal life.

There is so much tying of the Internet with real information that people are using that to create a full profile of every individual out there. And, I've been burned quite badly before.

So, like everyone else here, I use the alias / username to talk back and forth. And, give my full legal name and address and other relevant information to a person which I actually enter into a transaction with.

The problem, is that there are so many people using online resources to compile a full identity profile of individuals for dishonest reasons. And, I do not wish to contribute to that by having my legal name tied to everything I do online.

You'll get my name and address when we are in personal transactions or personal conversations. That information is not going to be provided in a permanent and freely available web space.

I dropped my membership with LEM right after that requirement was added (They may have altered terms some since then).

But, it is a good place to meet honest people, and has great deals. But, the terms as they were when I left wasn't worth the risk / breach of my personal privacy.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I've been bitten hard by a previous deal with an entity on the Internet. I was scammed hard. And, I had to change a lot of personal information to recover (and secure my financial situation again). So, you'll get my name and address and such only when I personally give it to you (not as part of my public profile).

If that risk isn't a concern for you, then perhaps people only interested in trading should consider the LEM Swap group.

If they dropped the requirement for a public profile with my name (well, actually just having said info in the post), then I would rejoin.

For some, that requirement wouldn't be an issue. But, I now only give personal details to those I've spoken with. I don't put them where you can get them with a simple search.

But, as for Mac Rumors, I do agree with the idea behind the changes. It makes sense. And, while you may not get my name from my posts, you will see my personality. And, that can be used to decide whether you wish to deal with me.

From my posts, you'll see that I like to have a bit of fun once in a while. I'll give someone a hard time for a bit of a joke. It's all light hearted. You'll also see that I have a serious side, and that I'll help out when I can.

And, if you look at my previous sales transactions, you'll also see that I'm a very detailed person who will provide you with as much detail and information as possible to insure that you know what you're looking at.

So, it's not a bad idea to require more interaction to draw out a persons personality.
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Old Jun 19, 2008, 06:19 PM   #99
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How come you mods decided on "6502a" instead of "6502A"?
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Old Jun 19, 2008, 06:44 PM   #100
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How come you mods decided on "6502a" instead of "6502A"?
It should be capitalized shouldn't it?
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